Two issues..Pause and bridge arm

Thunderball

Thunderball

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Now you folk may not believe this but I do quite a bit more reading here then I do posting.I try to catch ways to improve my game through the simple things I've never really considered.

Stuff like :
Bridge hand placement.
Preshot routine (need much help here)
BHE (not so much so yet,too many other issues)
Just a few days ago I realized I was stepping away from the shot to get down as opposed to stepping in...I really feel this is better for me after little work.

These are points of focus that I really never had to work on because I never really considered the importance before signing on here.Many thanks to all who bother posting what ya know.

On to my current challenges:

Back hand pause gets some pretty good reviews by quite a few players here who can and do play well.The thing is,after working on this over the course of more then a few practice sessions,it still feels awful.About as unnatural as hell.

Pausing at the cue ball is no issue and feels great (another somthing I picked up here) but in the back swing not so much so.

Anyone ever feel the way I discribe,just to keep working on it and yield good results?Or should I abandon it?

The next struggle I'm having is my bridge arm.I've seen Earl play live and Larry Nevel as well.Both have strokes to kill for and I noticed with each the bridge arm is straight.Very straight.

I've been working on this a good bit and the results are kind of nuetral.The thing is,before considering it,my elbow was/is always bent.Sometimes VERY bent....I mean very up and very bent at times.Other times just a little.I always felt that this made my shot smaller and offered less room for error.

Being a bigger guy at 6'2'',straightning out pulls me away a bit and my back hand and front hand are farther apart...but I am indeed ,head and upper body wise, lower to the table.

Anyone ever make this change just to improve your overall play and seen positive results just do to the decision to commit to a straight bridge arm?
I can see how it might be true...but in a way I can see how it would be truer and easier for a shorter person.

Any thoughts appreciated as always.I've got some seemingly simple stuff to work through to move my game up a few balls I think.I feel its close actually,so I ask.
I need to practice well and I fear I have not been considering ( but not limited too) the two above questions.

Tball
 
Thunderball said:
[...]

Back hand pause gets some pretty good reviews by quite a few players here who can and do play well.The thing is,after working on this over the course of more then a few practice sessions,it still feels awful.About as unnatural as hell.

Pausing at the cue ball is no issue and feels great (another somthing I picked up here) but in the back swing not so much so.

Anyone ever feel the way I discribe,just to keep working on it and yield good results?Or should I abandon it?
Click to expand...

The fact it feels awkward is not reason enough to abandon it. Many times changing what you've been doing will feel awkward whether it's an important change or not.

But in this case I think it's fine to go with no pause. If you bring the cue back slowly and have a smooth transition between the back and forward motion, that can be just fine.

There are some reputable instructors who feel the pause (at the back) is important,and there are others who don't. There are some good players who pause, and there are others who don't.

[...]
 
I think the best advice you can get at this point is to get an instructor. Shouldn't be any problem finding one on this forum. At the point your at, this will be much more beneficial than any advice you may get on a forum.
Regarding the pause at the end of the backstroke, I had problems similar, I think, to what your having. What I will tell you is that it took me a little over a year to get the pause incorporated into my stroke where it feels pretty comfortable. Hopefully it won't take you this amount of time, but it isn't the type of change that you can add quickly. The benefits I'm seeing with the pause are substantial.
Get an instructor or go to a workshop. I know it will be the best investment you can make if you are serious about your game. Just don't expect any quick fixes. Everything which I learned takes time and patience to adopt. Remember that the instructor can only communicate what you need to work on. You have to do the actual work.
 
If you are interested, I am in Charlotte, and teach throughout the Carolinas. Yes, I had to work on the pause, and yes it was tough. But the results are that my game did improve. It's not just the pause...there are many things we teach in pool school that are often discussed here. But getting it first hand as opposed to through an internet forum greatly increases the odds that you will get it right.
I would be happy to discuss your options with you. Send me a PM or give me a call.
Steve Jennings
 
Thunderball said:
Just a few days ago I realized I was stepping away from the shot to get down as opposed to stepping in...I really feel this is better for me after little work.
Tball
Click to expand...

I tried this for a while, also. Came to the conclusion that it makes no difference whatsoever. As long as you are lined up properly, you can do it either way. I was also told the same thing by an instructor, recently.
 
Thunderball
Back hand pause gets some pretty good reviews by quite a few players here who can and do play well.The thing is,after working on this over the course of more then a few practice sessions,it still feels awful.About as unnatural as hell.

Pausing at the cue ball is no issue and feels great (another somthing I picked up here) but in the back swing not so much so.

Anyone ever feel the way I discribe,just to keep working on it and yield good results?Or should I abandon it?
Click to expand...

I am a happy convert to the back stroke pause. I adopted it because Allision Fisher suggested I do so in the "pool school" she conducts with Gerda Hofstatter...which was a GREAT learning experience by the way.

It took me not just a few practice sessions but rather 6 MONTHS to accomplish the conversion.

There have been numerous threads on the pause and most of them have gotten fairly emotional so I don't want to start that all over again but... the THEORY is...among other things...that the pause permits time AND a routine trigger mechanism for the eye to shift and lock on to the OB target and it removes the distraction to that focus that is caused by a cue stick in contant motion.

In addition, it encourages a 100% guarantee of taking a FULL backstroke and avoids "short stroking" which was one of my most often repeated flaws...especially in critical situations.

The way I approached the conversion...eventually...was to eliminate ALL warm up stroking and just to draw back ONCE to the full back position...pause, and then stroke through.

Eventually, the weirdness you experienced vanishes...at least for me.

NOTE: I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT THE PAUSE IS UNDENIABLY THE BEST APPROACH so let's not go there again. (-:

To me...it both makes sense and has worked very well.

Regards,
Jim
 
Pushout said:
I tried this for a while, also. Came to the conclusion that it makes no difference whatsoever. As long as you are lined up properly, you can do it either way. I was also told the same thing by an instructor, recently.
Click to expand...

But there are at least as many instructors who would tell you the opposite...and not just a few World Champions.

But of course...to each his own.

Regards,
Jim
 
Pushout said:
I tried this for a while, also. Came to the conclusion that it makes no difference whatsoever. As long as you are lined up properly, you can do it either way. I was also told the same thing by an instructor, recently.
Click to expand...
Imo stepping in to the shot gets you lined up better.
Two steps away from the table then walk in to the shot.
What's funny is Johnny Archer used to do this.
He shot better then imo.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Imo stepping in to the shot gets you lined up better.
Two steps away from the table then walk in to the shot.
What's funny is Johnny Archer used to do this.
He shot better then imo.
Click to expand...

Clearly, Johnny walks into his shots. I'm sure if he tried floating, it didn't work too well. (-:

The issue isn't the number of steps...it is the consistency of each aspect of the pre-shot routine.

Regards,
Jim
 
Pausing at the cue ball is no issue and feels great (another somthing I picked up here) but in the back swing not so much so.
Click to expand...

I think the important thing is to avoid jerking the final backstroke or the transition to the final forward stroke. The pause between the two only needs to be long enough to accomplish that - it can be momentary.

Anyone ever make this change just to improve your overall play and seen positive results just do to the decision to commit to a straight bridge arm? I can see how it might be true...but in a way I can see how it would be truer and easier for a shorter person.
Click to expand...

I'm 6'-3" and I changed to a straighter bridge arm (not locked, just comfortably straight) with good results. With a more bent arm my eyes weren't exactly the same distance from the cue ball for every shot, my bridge length varied some, even my tip placement and speed control were less reliable. A straighter arm also seems like a more stable brace for the rest of my stance - helps me remain more still, discourages jumping up, lunging, etc. It was worth changing for me.

pj
chgo
 
Thanks for the most excellent replies guys.Much appreciated.

I'll continue to work on straight arming the bridge,which I can do with no fall off in results right now,so maybe over some time I'll see some improvment do to the change.I don't see any downside fwiw so its easy enough to keep that as a focal point.

This pause thing is another animal though.Geeze.For me it feels as bad as trying to shoot with my feet lol.Well...maybe not quite that bad,but as awkward as it gets.Interesting that many who have replied had some difficulty with it as well,had to work on it for quite some time,but yielded some good results for the effort.That was after all the question.I'll keep up the good fight on this front as well.

Steve,I may give you a call after the holidays when the money and time is a little looser.An hour or three with someone to really point me in the direction practice wise would go a long way I think.

Thanks again all,Good thread.
Tball
 
Tball...Just for grins...try a progressive drill. Set up an easy shot with just a 5-10 deg. cut angle...draw the cue back ONCE to the full back position, pause there...and shoot.

ZERO warm up strokes (just a drill...not for real).

Then move the cb back to toughen the shot and shoot a bunch more that way.

Shoot a hundred shots that way.

Then shoot some entire racks that way.

I got to where I was shooting BETTER that way than with warm up strokes! But that was only because reintroducing them was making me think about it...and I had a baseball coach who said "Dont' think Jim...you weaken the team!" (-:

As Mike and others point out...some great ones do and some don't but for ME...I buy the logic that the CB is struck with the forward stroke not the back stroke and anything that can be done to upwardly adjust the accuracy of the forward stroke...like intense and uninterrupted focus on the target...is a net plus.

Think of an archer. They slowly and steadily pull the bow string back....PAUSE...and then FOCUS on the target with NO motion to obstruct or interfere with that focus.

Just like loosing the arrow, once the forward stroke starts (if started correctly without a jerky motion as Mike or Steve posted) then the "arrow is away" and you can only screw things up from that point with body part movement.

But if you don't like the above drill...just do what Scott Lee says and SAY the word "pause"...but AFTER the pause has begun...not during the backstroke as I was doing...which caused me to SAY "pause" but NOT actually pause!!

(-:
 
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