should be loss of game... if not loss of game then the balls should be placed back where they were as long as the incoming player agrees to that.
thats pretty shitty.
thats pretty shitty.
Unsportsmanlike intentional foul just BIH??
- Thread starter jad
- Start date
Semi related...
So last week I had a player who shot at an object ball, and before it was pocketed, shot at a 2nd ball in anticipation of the first falling (which did not). Is this just a foul? or Loss of game?:frown:
So last week I had a player who shot at an object ball, and before it was pocketed, shot at a 2nd ball in anticipation of the first falling (which did not). Is this just a foul? or Loss of game?:frown:
Banks
Banned
Usually a ref will watch a match if there is questionable activity.
The thing is, he probably wasn't aware of the rule.. well, he obviously wasn't aware of the rule, because the balls go back right where they were anyways. He was simply trying to use his foul creatively, but it backfired. I've seen much worse sportsmanship out of people that didn't foul.. if people think that was cause for a DQ, I sure as heck hope they don't think Earl oughta be allowed in anything, ever.
Here's one for ya..
So, we're playing this team that, well, didn't have much going for them in many departments. Our low player is shooting very well and the girl he's playing isn't really getting any shots and when she does, she's getting no table love. After the match is over, her captain(?) says to her, in all seriousness.. "How could you let him do that to you?" I think the utter stupidity of that caused some of my brain cells to cease functioning.
I do know its a BIH foul to shoot if any balls are still moving. Sounds like a mess of a table at this point. Maybe just a BIH foul. Makes my head hurt to try to think if balls should be moved back.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it
If you are playing 8 ball, and all the opponents balls are tied up, but there is a breakout ball in the open, there is nothing wrong with shooting the ball and giving them ball in hand. It's like saying you can't shoot a hanger in the opponents pocket in one pocket. It's a legitimate safety.
If you are playing 8 ball, and all the opponents balls are tied up, but there is a breakout ball in the open, there is nothing wrong with shooting the ball and giving them ball in hand. It's like saying you can't shoot a hanger in the opponents pocket in one pocket. It's a legitimate safety.
Thanks!
We played it BIH. And I had to "Eat the crow" on behalf of my player, to keep the peace. Live and learn! :embarrassed2:
We played it BIH. And I had to "Eat the crow" on behalf of my player, to keep the peace. Live and learn! :embarrassed2:
not in apa it is a cue ball only foul league and as such without touching cue ball there is no foul
I agree!
If you touch another ball the ball goes back to where it was originally.
What any of us might think should result in bih or loss of game means nothing. The written rules are to be used not our judgement.
If you find me to be wrong in this reply Show me the rules that make it wrong. But please do not just give your opinion with out the APA written rules.
The player is to be informed it is not a legal hit. The balls are to be replaced by the opponent and the player still gets to take his shot. No where else in the rules does it address this. No bih infraction has happened. As for the accidental part of this, is it accidental if he thought it was legal hit? He was mistaken therefore accidentally moving the balls.
From the APA rulebook 2012
THESE ARE THE ONLY FOULS RESULTING IN
BALL-IN-HAND:
a. Anytime the cue ball goes in a pocket, on the floor,
or otherwise ends up off the playing surface.
b. Failure to hit your object ball first. (A player who is
shooting stripes must hit a striped ball first.) The
8-ball is not neutral. The shooter has the advantage
in these situations unless his opponent has asked an
outside party to watch the hit. Protect yourself. If
you think your opponent is attempting a shot that
could result in a bad hit, get someone to watch the
shot before he starts shooting. Teams involved in
repeatedly calling bad hits without outside party
verification may be subject to penalty points for
disruptive unsportsmanlike behavior.
c. Failure to hit a rail after contact. A sentence that
should answer many questions is: "Any ball
(including the cue ball) must go to a rail AFTER
LEGAL contact." A pocketed ball counts as a rail.
d.The object ball is frozen to a rail and the player is
contemplating playing a "safety." In order for the
"frozen ball" rule to be in effect, the opponent
must declare the ball frozen and the player should
verify. Once it is agreed the ball is frozen the
player must drive the object ball to another rail (of
course, it could hit another ball, which in turn hits
a rail) or drive the cue ball to a rail after it touches
the object ball. If the latter method of safety is
chosen the player should be sure to obviously
strike the object ball first. If the cue ball strikes the rail first or appears to hit both the rail and ball
simultaneously, it is a foul unless either the cue
ball or object ball went to some other rail.
e. It is a foul to jump a cue ball over another ball by
purposely miscuing it up in the air (scooping).
Accidental miscuing is not a foul unless other
rules in this section are violated.
f. Receiving illegal aid (coaching from person(s)
other than the coach) during your turn at the
table. It is not considered illegal aid to remind a
player to mark the pocket when shooting the
8-ball, or to tell a player a foul has occurred.
Anyone may do so.
g. Causing movement of the cue ball, even
accidentally, is a foul. It is not a foul to
accidentally move any other balls (including the
8-ball) unless, during his turn at the table, a player
moves a ball and it in turn strikes the cue ball.
Even dropping the chalk on the cue ball is a foul.
Any balls moved accidentally during a shot must
be replaced by the opponent after the shot is over
and all balls have stopped rolling. If it occurs
before the shot, it must be replaced by the
opponent before the shot is taken.
Exception: If an accidentally moved ball comes in
contact with the cue ball, creating a foul, no object
ball will be replaced.
h. If, during the course of a shot, the cue ball does
not touch anything.
i. Use caution when picking up or placing the cue
ball in a ball-in-hand situation. The cue ball is
always alive. If the cue ball, or the hand holding it
or moving it, touches another ball it is a cue ball
foul and your opponent has ball-in-hand. Be
especially careful when picking up or placing the
cue ball in a tight spot.
j. The player or his coach (during a coaching timeout)
may place the cue ball in a ball-in-hand
situation. The same rule regarding placing the
cue ball applies to the coach as applies to the
player. If the player, or coach fouls in the process
of placing the cue ball, it will be ball-in-hand for
the opponent. Therefore, it should be the player's
choice if he wishes to place the cue ball or allow
his coach to do so.
If you find me to be wrong in this reply Show me the rules that make it wrong. But please do not just give your opinion with out the APA written rules.
The player is to be informed it is not a legal hit. The balls are to be replaced by the opponent and the player still gets to take his shot. No where else in the rules does it address this. No bih infraction has happened. As for the accidental part of this, is it accidental if he thought it was legal hit? He was mistaken therefore accidentally moving the balls.
From the APA rulebook 2012
THESE ARE THE ONLY FOULS RESULTING IN
BALL-IN-HAND:
a. Anytime the cue ball goes in a pocket, on the floor,
or otherwise ends up off the playing surface.
b. Failure to hit your object ball first. (A player who is
shooting stripes must hit a striped ball first.) The
8-ball is not neutral. The shooter has the advantage
in these situations unless his opponent has asked an
outside party to watch the hit. Protect yourself. If
you think your opponent is attempting a shot that
could result in a bad hit, get someone to watch the
shot before he starts shooting. Teams involved in
repeatedly calling bad hits without outside party
verification may be subject to penalty points for
disruptive unsportsmanlike behavior.
c. Failure to hit a rail after contact. A sentence that
should answer many questions is: "Any ball
(including the cue ball) must go to a rail AFTER
LEGAL contact." A pocketed ball counts as a rail.
d.The object ball is frozen to a rail and the player is
contemplating playing a "safety." In order for the
"frozen ball" rule to be in effect, the opponent
must declare the ball frozen and the player should
verify. Once it is agreed the ball is frozen the
player must drive the object ball to another rail (of
course, it could hit another ball, which in turn hits
a rail) or drive the cue ball to a rail after it touches
the object ball. If the latter method of safety is
chosen the player should be sure to obviously
strike the object ball first. If the cue ball strikes the rail first or appears to hit both the rail and ball
simultaneously, it is a foul unless either the cue
ball or object ball went to some other rail.
e. It is a foul to jump a cue ball over another ball by
purposely miscuing it up in the air (scooping).
Accidental miscuing is not a foul unless other
rules in this section are violated.
f. Receiving illegal aid (coaching from person(s)
other than the coach) during your turn at the
table. It is not considered illegal aid to remind a
player to mark the pocket when shooting the
8-ball, or to tell a player a foul has occurred.
Anyone may do so.
g. Causing movement of the cue ball, even
accidentally, is a foul. It is not a foul to
accidentally move any other balls (including the
8-ball) unless, during his turn at the table, a player
moves a ball and it in turn strikes the cue ball.
Even dropping the chalk on the cue ball is a foul.
Any balls moved accidentally during a shot must
be replaced by the opponent after the shot is over
and all balls have stopped rolling. If it occurs
before the shot, it must be replaced by the
opponent before the shot is taken.
Exception: If an accidentally moved ball comes in
contact with the cue ball, creating a foul, no object
ball will be replaced.
h. If, during the course of a shot, the cue ball does
not touch anything.
i. Use caution when picking up or placing the cue
ball in a ball-in-hand situation. The cue ball is
always alive. If the cue ball, or the hand holding it
or moving it, touches another ball it is a cue ball
foul and your opponent has ball-in-hand. Be
especially careful when picking up or placing the
cue ball in a tight spot.
j. The player or his coach (during a coaching timeout)
may place the cue ball in a ball-in-hand
situation. The same rule regarding placing the
cue ball applies to the coach as applies to the
player. If the player, or coach fouls in the process
of placing the cue ball, it will be ball-in-hand for
the opponent. Therefore, it should be the player's
choice if he wishes to place the cue ball or allow
his coach to do so.
Last edited:
I agree he did it on purpose but he must have believed it was a legal shot and he was mistaken therefore he either accidentally did it (thinking it was legal) or was conceding the game. He did not concede or the tournament director would not have been called.
Here are the times it mentions unsportsmanlike
b. Failure to hit a correct ball first. (A player who is shooting stripes
must hit a striped ball first.) The 8-ball is not neutral. In general, the
shooter has the advantage in close hit situations unless his opponent has
asked an outside party to watch the hit. Protect yourself. If you think
your opponent is getting ready to shoot a shot that could possibly be a
bad hit, stop him from shooting and get someone to watch the shot.
Potential bad hit situations are usually fairly obvious and protests and
disputes over these close situations can almost always be avoided if
someone is asked to watch the shot. If the outside party cannot
determine which ball was struck first, the call goes to the shooter.
Teams involved in repeatedly calling bad hits without outside party
verification may be subject to penalty points for disruptive
unsportsmanlike behavior
All this said Local written Bylaws can add rulings at their level.
It isn't in the rule book now. But the the penalties start with a warning, BIH, loss of game, loss of match, DQ, ect. It is dealt with on a case by case basis depending on the offense. The LO, TD or ref will decide the outcome but usually it will be the LO or TD. In the nationals the floor manager will decide what happens. If it is done intentionally to alter the layout of the balls or avoid a foul then it will be BIH with a 2nd offense loss of game/match.
The pitiful part is that we need rules for this (and other things) and specifically described in a rule book so people will not attempt these ignorant moves. Some people read the rule books looking for some way to manipulate them to gain an advantage. Some people really think they are smarter than the rest of the world
. Personally I think it should have been loss of match for being an idiot to think it was okay do something like that.To put an end to this...This is the exact reason that APA is just a joke. The rules are retarded, the spots are retarded (without a better more strict rating system). If you were to impliment a better system for player ratings and fix a couple rules, APA would be a pretty good league actually. There is good money in it in all reality, especially compared to VNEA pay outs.
I remember commenting on that one.....
..I felt that disqualification was the right call.