K
King Kong
Guest
Whats going on?
I hear so much about the UPA this and that?
They seem to be doing good what do you think?
I hear so much about the UPA this and that?
They seem to be doing good what do you think?
Seen this clipping from another poster:
THE GOVERNING BODY OF MEN'S PROFESSIONAL POOL
UPA does NOT sanction the US Open Event.
Hardy, VA July 21, 2003
"The UPA exists to serve its membership. A principle means of serving our players is to improve and promote the image and general interest in pool.
The UPA is of the opinion that sanctioning a tournament promoted by Mr. Behrman is inconsistent with this fundamental objective.
In addition, Mr. Behrman has peremptorily refused to accept certain conditions of a standard UPA sanctioning contract.
For these reasons, the UPA cannot sanction the US Open.
Due to the perceived importance of this event, the UPA will grant waivers to those members who feel they must play in this event. However, the UPA cannot offer to any member competing in the event any of the assurances that would normally follow from UPA sanctioning."
George Lord
UPA Board of Directors
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I'm still going, and that's what I think.
The UPA produces a sea of paper documents overloaded with a lot of mumbo jumbo. When the documents disseminated by UPA contain errors, as in the above-captioned announcement, it is hard for me to take them seriously. Legally worded documents like this are confusing.
It is a prospective player's new nightmare.
ManlyShot
THE GOVERNING BODY OF MEN'S PROFESSIONAL POOL
UPA does NOT sanction the US Open Event.
Hardy, VA July 21, 2003
"The UPA exists to serve its membership. A principle means of serving our players is to improve and promote the image and general interest in pool.
The UPA is of the opinion that sanctioning a tournament promoted by Mr. Behrman is inconsistent with this fundamental objective.
In addition, Mr. Behrman has peremptorily refused to accept certain conditions of a standard UPA sanctioning contract.
For these reasons, the UPA cannot sanction the US Open.
Due to the perceived importance of this event, the UPA will grant waivers to those members who feel they must play in this event. However, the UPA cannot offer to any member competing in the event any of the assurances that would normally follow from UPA sanctioning."
George Lord
UPA Board of Directors
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm still going, and that's what I think.
The UPA produces a sea of paper documents overloaded with a lot of mumbo jumbo. When the documents disseminated by UPA contain errors, as in the above-captioned announcement, it is hard for me to take them seriously. Legally worded documents like this are confusing.
It is a prospective player's new nightmare.
ManlyShot
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Do both Behrman's owe money for 2 different events?
"THE GOVERNING BODY OF MEN'S PROFESSIONAL POOL "
Who the hell gave them that title? Or did they elect themselves?
The UPA not sancioning the U.S. Open is not a big deal to that event, but is another nail in the UPA's coffin.
See how many UPA members decide to play even if they have to revoke membership in this Fantasy Org.
Who the hell gave them that title? Or did they elect themselves?
The UPA not sancioning the U.S. Open is not a big deal to that event, but is another nail in the UPA's coffin.
See how many UPA members decide to play even if they have to revoke membership in this Fantasy Org.
Why can't the men have one league that oversees all the PRO tournaments? Doesn't the WPBA oversee all the female PRO tournaments and is the only female league/tour/organization?
I think the WPBA is doing something right and will continue to grow!
Zim
I think the WPBA is doing something right and will continue to grow!
Zim
F
fti
Guest
What has this behrman done?
Zims Rack said:
Having a unifying organization for men is a good idea. It is imperative that rules be clarified and even reviewed periodically for their merit, i.e., jump cue allowance or whether men should be able to talk during matches. It would help if venues use this same set of rules. The benefits are endless.
A governing body with the authority to enforce and create rules, pick players to attend national/international events, should consist of objective NON-POOL PLAYERS who can be fair and impartial, not professional pool players who are on the very tour they are trying to promote.
The women seem to be happy with their pool organizations. They unify the female pool players and help them. They must be doing something right.
ManlyShot
I guess that means that CW will now miss his second US Open. Such a waste. It will be interesting to see which UPA members will stand by the UPA and skip the US Open. If they don't stand by the UPA then sanctioning is really meaningless. I suspect Ray Martin and Buddy Hall will skip the Open; but then I doubt they were going to go anyway, time has passed them by. This is all so childish. Jake
Ruthless said:
This is the problem in a nutshell. A governing body in men's professional pool should consist of non-professional players to retain a sense of integrity, fairness to all, and objectivity. The UPA in its present form is "The Wizard of Oz," but who is the wizard behind the curtain making all the rules? Do they think that pool players are going to just give them money and not question why and follow their instructions like trained little pigs? It's like feed the monkey, and watch him sh*t.
ManlyShot
fti said:
FTI, Barry Behrman is the U.S. Open promoter. His son, Brady Behrman, promoted the Mid-Atlantic tournament. Both Behrmans have contributed a lot to the American pool scene, especially Barry.
Because of a snow blizzard, Super Bowl weekend, and timing of Mid-Atlantic tournament immediately on the heels of week-long venues such as the Derby City Classic and then Music City in Nashville, there were very few spectators who attended this event. Vendors were disappointed, and some did not pay Brady, leaving him holding the bag. The Mid-Atlantic tournament's roster of players was one of the best I have ever seen. Brady tried his best to have a successful event, but he did incur a huge personal financial setback because of the MANY unforeseen circumstances that were really beyond his control.
It is my understanding that some winning players were not paid. Brady has not hidden under a rock, and he has been forthright and honest about it. The behind-the-scenes arrangements between he and those winning players do exist, and it is between Brady and those players. Brady, like his father, loves the pool industry and I hope they both stay around, learn from previous mistakes, institute some safeguards, and continue to provide venues such as the U.S. Open and Mid-Atlantic in the future.
ManlyShot
A governing body with the authority to enforce and create rules, pick players to attend national/international events, should consist of objective NON-POOL PLAYERS who can be fair and impartial, not professional pool players who are on the very tour they are trying to promote.
The women seem to be happy with their pool organizations. They unify the female pool players and help them. They must be doing something right.
ManlyShot
...IMO this is exactly what we NEED! A governing body of billiards for the men. This should be of NON-PRO players, but could have retired PROS that will not be allowed to return to the tour as a player. Something has to be done in order for our sport to grow! The PBA and the WPBA should follow the exact same rules, this would allow them to play against each other in an annual tournament or something like that in the future.
Zim
The women seem to be happy with their pool organizations. They unify the female pool players and help them. They must be doing something right.
ManlyShot
...IMO this is exactly what we NEED! A governing body of billiards for the men. This should be of NON-PRO players, but could have retired PROS that will not be allowed to return to the tour as a player. Something has to be done in order for our sport to grow! The PBA and the WPBA should follow the exact same rules, this would allow them to play against each other in an annual tournament or something like that in the future.
Zim
T
TomColeman
Guest
Why the need for a "governing" body? Each Tour or Series can govern or regulate themselves. The rules playing field just needs to be known ahead of time.
If a Tournament Promoter or Director makes it attractive enough for the players to play - then the players will compete. And if the Tournaments are exciting, the fans will follow. And if both of these come true - then players and fans alike will flock to the next one that comes around.
Billiards is certainly growing as a sport. The "everyday" player can be found in cities large and small throughout the world. I see the key to the growth of Billiards not about having a "governing" body or "unification", but rather the exposure of Billiards to the mainstream. But it has to be FUN and EXCITING!
As long as there are variations of the rules, ie: BCA, APA, Texas Express, etc. - then one "governing" body isn't the answer, it will never happen. However, the Tournament and/or Tour Promoters can work harder at promoting their concepts to the "everyday" pool players, by making it possible for the "average" player to participate in their Tournaments. Afterall, there are millions of Pool Players, but perhaps only a few thousand "professional" pool players.
A "governing" body or "unification" isn't the answer - exposure is!
Tom Coleman
www.SuperChallenges.com
If a Tournament Promoter or Director makes it attractive enough for the players to play - then the players will compete. And if the Tournaments are exciting, the fans will follow. And if both of these come true - then players and fans alike will flock to the next one that comes around.
Billiards is certainly growing as a sport. The "everyday" player can be found in cities large and small throughout the world. I see the key to the growth of Billiards not about having a "governing" body or "unification", but rather the exposure of Billiards to the mainstream. But it has to be FUN and EXCITING!
As long as there are variations of the rules, ie: BCA, APA, Texas Express, etc. - then one "governing" body isn't the answer, it will never happen. However, the Tournament and/or Tour Promoters can work harder at promoting their concepts to the "everyday" pool players, by making it possible for the "average" player to participate in their Tournaments. Afterall, there are millions of Pool Players, but perhaps only a few thousand "professional" pool players.
A "governing" body or "unification" isn't the answer - exposure is!
Tom Coleman
www.SuperChallenges.com
K
King Kong
Guest
I do not think it is exposure. Cause bad exposure is worse. I really believe the players need to mandate more formal attire. I look at the ladies attire and Jeanette Lee in her Black Dress did more for pool then Jean Balukasas ever did. Her along with some of the other beautiful women of the WPBA.
I look at what proper attire has done for the ladies purse strings. The men have shot themselves in the foot with the Polo shirt and khakis. The looked so tacky on air. You look at Snooker and not one player would appear on TV in anything less than a nice suit or tuxedo. It shows a love or respect for your craft.
With these guys that type of mandated attire is a huge arguement. They would rather gamble the money away or even worse give it to their dealer.
These problems are huge for pool that I mention in giving the game a face lift and may anger the people that fall in the category above. But, these changes are so necessary as sponsors and business executives are not going to tolerate their sons running in from the bathroom yelling daddy the pro had some funny stuff on his nose in the bathroom.
Pool players kill themselves. You clean up the sport and image the game will make the money that snooker gets over a short period of time.
I look at what proper attire has done for the ladies purse strings. The men have shot themselves in the foot with the Polo shirt and khakis. The looked so tacky on air. You look at Snooker and not one player would appear on TV in anything less than a nice suit or tuxedo. It shows a love or respect for your craft.
With these guys that type of mandated attire is a huge arguement. They would rather gamble the money away or even worse give it to their dealer.
These problems are huge for pool that I mention in giving the game a face lift and may anger the people that fall in the category above. But, these changes are so necessary as sponsors and business executives are not going to tolerate their sons running in from the bathroom yelling daddy the pro had some funny stuff on his nose in the bathroom.
Pool players kill themselves. You clean up the sport and image the game will make the money that snooker gets over a short period of time.
The main problem with the UPA is the way that it is set up. The structuring they are using has been used in the past, and it has not worked. Charlie Williams is a player, and he is also on the Executive Board. He cannot serve two masters. Sooner or later he will end up having to choose sides. This is the predicament that Allen Hopkins found himself in when he was president of the MPBT. Who is "George Lord"???? He is not listed on their web site as a member of the executive board, and I have done a lot of research and this is the first time I have seen his name.
Uniting Men's pool is not their main objective. Both sides in this argument (Between Barry Behrman & the UPA) have valid arguments. This is well documented on this site. I will suggest that each person look at both sides and form your own opinion. I understand each side but disagree with both as well. I am of the opnion that this should be settled between the UPA and the Behrman's with the best interest of the players kept to the forefront. So far, that has not happened, no matter what either side tells you. You can play the tournament and support the tournament, but you will not receive any UPA Tour points for this event. Seems kind of weird to me, as this tournament has been one of the most prestigious events in the history of our sport. I fail to see how Barry can meet the sanctioning terms for UPA sanctioning when the UPA seems so unwilling to support this event in any way, shape, or form. Barry has not been completely forthright with the UPA Board of Directors, and has thrown a few curve balls himself.
In the end, the players lose out because the people in the suits can't agree on ordering breakfast, nevermind putting the past in the past and moving forward to bring this event back to its rightful prominence.
The solution is to get the player/executive board members out of the drivers seat. Saying that they are a "non-profit" organization does not mean that nobody is making money at this "UPA" venture. They used to be the "United Pool Players Association" and all of a sudden they are "The United States Pool Players Association". Now the "Players" aren't united, the "States" are. This is beyond ridiculous, and I would welcome some honesty into this situation. I think it's time to ball up this piece of paper, throw it in the wastepaper basket and start over on a new sheet - with new people and new ideas.
Uniting Men's pool is not their main objective. Both sides in this argument (Between Barry Behrman & the UPA) have valid arguments. This is well documented on this site. I will suggest that each person look at both sides and form your own opinion. I understand each side but disagree with both as well. I am of the opnion that this should be settled between the UPA and the Behrman's with the best interest of the players kept to the forefront. So far, that has not happened, no matter what either side tells you. You can play the tournament and support the tournament, but you will not receive any UPA Tour points for this event. Seems kind of weird to me, as this tournament has been one of the most prestigious events in the history of our sport. I fail to see how Barry can meet the sanctioning terms for UPA sanctioning when the UPA seems so unwilling to support this event in any way, shape, or form. Barry has not been completely forthright with the UPA Board of Directors, and has thrown a few curve balls himself.
In the end, the players lose out because the people in the suits can't agree on ordering breakfast, nevermind putting the past in the past and moving forward to bring this event back to its rightful prominence.
The solution is to get the player/executive board members out of the drivers seat. Saying that they are a "non-profit" organization does not mean that nobody is making money at this "UPA" venture. They used to be the "United Pool Players Association" and all of a sudden they are "The United States Pool Players Association". Now the "Players" aren't united, the "States" are. This is beyond ridiculous, and I would welcome some honesty into this situation. I think it's time to ball up this piece of paper, throw it in the wastepaper basket and start over on a new sheet - with new people and new ideas.
K
knudsenjj
Guest
Holy Screaming Eagle S***!!! How did we go from the unification of mens pro pool to attire being the detriment of the mens pro sport??????? What is unprofessional about what the men wear
? Are they wearing freyed cutoffs or holy jeans with beer stained t-shirts? The only people I've ever seen wearing what I would consider innapropriate wear is the spectators(but I am a Marine), but I'm falling off of my point which is that somehow apperal is getting the discussion way off track. I agree that mens pro pool needs one governing body. How many mens "pro" basketball leagues do you have in the US? Or what about "pro"(and I don't mean arena league) pro football leagues do you see?? Or what about americas favorite past time, baseball. There is a reason why there is only one recognized league for these sports and why outside hack leagues always die(i.e. XFL). UNITY. Not only for the players but for the spectators as well. If you are going to try and bring new followers into the sport it goes to figure that they will know little or nothing about the sport. How do you expect the average Joe off the street to get into a game with so many different leagues with so many different rules and style of play? And what about those that aspire to play in tournements and join a league? What league do you join and what league is going to benefit you as a player? I'm sure there are going to be those fo you who will pick this apart, and I welcome it. I think the only way to take this sport forward is to not only figure out whats wrong, but to come up with a solution to that wrong and then act upon it. And thats my two cents worth.
? Are they wearing freyed cutoffs or holy jeans with beer stained t-shirts? The only people I've ever seen wearing what I would consider innapropriate wear is the spectators(but I am a Marine), but I'm falling off of my point which is that somehow apperal is getting the discussion way off track. I agree that mens pro pool needs one governing body. How many mens "pro" basketball leagues do you have in the US? Or what about "pro"(and I don't mean arena league) pro football leagues do you see?? Or what about americas favorite past time, baseball. There is a reason why there is only one recognized league for these sports and why outside hack leagues always die(i.e. XFL). UNITY. Not only for the players but for the spectators as well. If you are going to try and bring new followers into the sport it goes to figure that they will know little or nothing about the sport. How do you expect the average Joe off the street to get into a game with so many different leagues with so many different rules and style of play? And what about those that aspire to play in tournements and join a league? What league do you join and what league is going to benefit you as a player? I'm sure there are going to be those fo you who will pick this apart, and I welcome it. I think the only way to take this sport forward is to not only figure out whats wrong, but to come up with a solution to that wrong and then act upon it. And thats my two cents worth.