USBTC Professional or not?

As somebody who was sitting 5 feet away from Shane and Stevie when Stevie called Shane "****ing dumb" because he did not agree with Stevie's whining about having to put tokens into the TV table, I think Shane should get some credit for being totally professional. He looked Stevie in the eye and told him, 'Hey, if they don't make some money doing these tournaments, then you and I won't have any tournaments to play in.'
Shane "gets it" while some others posting on this forum just don't. Nobody is making milions running pool tournaments. Why should premadonna's like Stevie Moore be treated any differently than the averge player, like myself who played at the USBTC? I put tokens into the tables for everyone of my matches and have no problem with that. I would've had a big problem with the "pro players" being given special treatment on the TV table as I will probably never get on that table. Both players were guaranteed $2500 at the time of the exchange over paying on the TV table came up, so it wasn't like they couldn't afford the $6 it might cost them to play the match.
Thank you to CSI, TAR and Bad Boy's Billiard Productions for not being afraid to risk the time and money it takes to put on these events. Without people in the industry like Mark Griffin, Justin Collett and Ric Jones, who are willing to put on events and bring them to the public to watch, pool would be back to what it was 30 years ago, when tournaments were played on crappy equipment, for very little money and no one got to see them, because there was no coverage.
 
Here is what happened from my point of view. Far as I know I was the only guy who was actually there for everything from beginning to end as far as the whole Dollar-Gate issue is concerned. (Henceforth what this drama fest will be referred as....least by me)

Before the tournament started I went to Mark Griffin and asked that the streaming table be opened up. I did this for two reasons:

A. I think it is simply a nice gesture for the guys who are good enough to play on that table.

2. IMO its looks bad having guys stick tokens in a table on a stream.

I didn't go over these reasons with Mark I just ask it be opened up and he said "OK." First streaming match of the event was Stevie Moore vs I Don't Remember (not the players real name...I dont actually remember his name. Sorry) They come down and start happily banging away on the open table frolicking like children in a candy store with the owner away.

Maybe twenty minutes into the stream Mark came up and said he had discussed the issue with staff and they decided to close the table. The main reason being to treat everyone equally. One pays they all pay. Thats a tough point to argue against and I see things both ways but more on that later we got drama to get to.

Flash forward to the hot seat match....Stevie comes down and figures out the tables locked and goes into full on diva mode. I tried to talk to him off to the side and explain what had happened but he already had a full head of indignant steam. You see here was a another case of the Man (I assume this is CSI, TAR and everyone who cant beat him at pool) keeping him (the honest, hard working, and forthright pro pool player) down.

I tried to explain to Stevie that I understood where he was coming from. I hate the Man too you see. I tried to tell him why the table had been closed but he would have none of it he was too busy telling me about all the money I was making off of him by keeping him down. It seems Stevie thinks I am part of the Man. Which while offensive is still so ludicrously hilarious that I wasn't even pissed at him yet for acting like a girl who got felt up at the drive in over the situation. (Points for knowing the reference) Honestly I was waiting for him to start chanting "ATTICA....ATTICA....ATTICA" at any minute. It was all very dramatic.

So Stevie storms out talking boycott....only to return after deciding having the courage of his convictions would mean losing some money. Who would actually ever do that ? Instead of doing what he so dramatically threatened to do..which is basically quit...he goes over to Shane and tries to talk him into boycotting as well. Like the UAW in the bad old days and the Russian revolution and the Civil Rights movement it was time for the down trodden to stand up to the man....except Shane told him "These guys have to make money too" and Stevie replied "You are as fvcking dumb as they are."

As I hope you can tell I tried to be funny up to this point. The reason for that is that I was so pissed off for a couple days after this event I was about ready to start kicking one of the thousands of dogs being walked around the hotel. I'm over it all now.

There is a discussion to be had about streaming and greens fees or putting dollars in tables. There is also a time and manner to have that discussion. Stevie's first instinct was not to talk about the situation...it was to boycott. That a French word that means "I quit instead of wanting to work out the issue at hand" It seems to be the go to strategy for a certain segment of pro pool players.

If Stevie would of had the courage of his convictions and actually went through with it I would still respect him. But he didnt. He went and tried to get someone else to take the heat for his decision with him and when that didnt work out he insulted the guy who seconds before he was approaching as a brother in arms who could understand his plight. Thats when I lost all respect for him. I'm sure that matters as much to him as what he is probably saying about TAR concerns me. I have officially given my last shit for people who would rather stomp their feet and threaten to take their ball and go home than act like an adult and resolve a problem.

I'm done trying to please people who do not understand the basic way the world works. Someone who pays you for doing a job has to receive equal or more value from having that job performed or they will no longer have a motivation or opportunity to pay you to do anything. And just for anyone who isnt following along at home.....people who hold events and add money to them pay professional pool players salaries. If you dont believe it just wait after a few more years of the current BS going on and see what it looks like when no one even wants to fool with the nonsense.

My ending thought is this: If you want to be treated like a professional you have to act like one.



How much did you take off of Mozel?
 
Ok, might be my turn

Like they say, there are 2 sides to every story. I wasn't there, and this is long after the fact. First, it don't sound like Stevie handled it too well. I can see where he maybe didn't have all the facts, and should have listened a little, before going off. It kinda sucks, having to pay coins to play in the finals of a large type event. Even the VNEA State tourney in Indiana opens the tables for the finals of the team events.

But, you gotta see the other side too. It ain't real fair to the guys who don't play on the Stream table, to have to pay to warm up before a match, and then pay for their games either. The last couple of years, more and more tournies have gone to green fees, and left the tables open, except during late hours, like at DCC. If I am paying a $150 entry fee or so, it sux to spend an extra $5 or so just warming up before a match, and then shoving coins in to play the match. Might be time for them to go to the green fee.

As for Stevie, at DCC I saw him be VERY Professional in dealing with some guy up in the AZ room. The guy was badgering him to gamble, and it was annoying me and the guy I was playing, and we weren't even in the conversation. I had played Stevie at DCC before, and seen him play several matches, and never once seen him step over the line. Always polite. We never know what buttons someone else has pushing, before a person steps into our world, so maybe, something was already bothering him. Hopefully, this is not something he does often, or is starting to happen with him.

On a side note, I don't think people have a clue, just what you have to do Justin, in order to do your job. Thanks for all you do for pool. It's appreciated greatly, by most of us.




Here is what happened from my point of view. Far as I know I was the only guy who was actually there for everything from beginning to end as far as the whole Dollar-Gate issue is concerned. (Henceforth what this drama fest will be referred as....least by me)

Before the tournament started I went to Mark Griffin and asked that the streaming table be opened up. I did this for two reasons:

A. I think it is simply a nice gesture for the guys who are good enough to play on that table.

2. IMO its looks bad having guys stick tokens in a table on a stream.

I didn't go over these reasons with Mark I just ask it be opened up and he said "OK." First streaming match of the event was Stevie Moore vs I Don't Remember (not the players real name...I dont actually remember his name. Sorry) They come down and start happily banging away on the open table frolicking like children in a candy store with the owner away.

Maybe twenty minutes into the stream Mark came up and said he had discussed the issue with staff and they decided to close the table. The main reason being to treat everyone equally. One pays they all pay. Thats a tough point to argue against and I see things both ways but more on that later we got drama to get to.

Flash forward to the hot seat match....Stevie comes down and figures out the tables locked and goes into full on diva mode. I tried to talk to him off to the side and explain what had happened but he already had a full head of indignant steam. You see here was a another case of the Man (I assume this is CSI, TAR and everyone who cant beat him at pool) keeping him (the honest, hard working, and forthright pro pool player) down.

I tried to explain to Stevie that I understood where he was coming from. I hate the Man too you see. I tried to tell him why the table had been closed but he would have none of it he was too busy telling me about all the money I was making off of him by keeping him down. It seems Stevie thinks I am part of the Man. Which while offensive is still so ludicrously hilarious that I wasn't even pissed at him yet for acting like a girl who got felt up at the drive in over the situation. (Points for knowing the reference) Honestly I was waiting for him to start chanting "ATTICA....ATTICA....ATTICA" at any minute. It was all very dramatic.

So Stevie storms out talking boycott....only to return after deciding having the courage of his convictions would mean losing some money. Who would actually ever do that ? Instead of doing what he so dramatically threatened to do..which is basically quit...he goes over to Shane and tries to talk him into boycotting as well. Like the UAW in the bad old days and the Russian revolution and the Civil Rights movement it was time for the down trodden to stand up to the man....except Shane told him "These guys have to make money too" and Stevie replied "You are as fvcking dumb as they are."

As I hope you can tell I tried to be funny up to this point. The reason for that is that I was so pissed off for a couple days after this event I was about ready to start kicking one of the thousands of dogs being walked around the hotel. I'm over it all now.

There is a discussion to be had about streaming and greens fees or putting dollars in tables. There is also a time and manner to have that discussion. Stevie's first instinct was not to talk about the situation...it was to boycott. That a French word that means "I quit instead of wanting to work out the issue at hand" It seems to be the go to strategy for a certain segment of pro pool players.

If Stevie would of had the courage of his convictions and actually went through with it I would still respect him. But he didnt. He went and tried to get someone else to take the heat for his decision with him and when that didnt work out he insulted the guy who seconds before he was approaching as a brother in arms who could understand his plight. Thats when I lost all respect for him. I'm sure that matters as much to him as what he is probably saying about TAR concerns me. I have officially given my last shit for people who would rather stomp their feet and threaten to take their ball and go home than act like an adult and resolve a problem.

I'm done trying to please people who do not understand the basic way the world works. Someone who pays you for doing a job has to receive equal or more value from having that job performed or they will no longer have a motivation or opportunity to pay you to do anything. And just for anyone who isnt following along at home.....people who hold events and add money to them pay professional pool players salaries. If you dont believe it just wait after a few more years of the current BS going on and see what it looks like when no one even wants to fool with the nonsense.

My ending thought is this: If you want to be treated like a professional you have to act like one.
 
As somebody who was sitting 5 feet away from Shane and Stevie when Stevie called Shane "****ing dumb" because he did not agree with Stevie's whining about having to put tokens into the TV table, I think Shane should get some credit for being totally professional. He looked Stevie in the eye and told him, 'Hey, if they don't make some money doing these tournaments, then you and I won't have any tournaments to play in.'
Shane "gets it" while some others posting on this forum just don't. Nobody is making milions running pool tournaments. Why should premadonna's like Stevie Moore be treated any differently than the averge player, like myself who played at the USBTC? I put tokens into the tables for everyone of my matches and have no problem with that. I would've had a big problem with the "pro players" being given special treatment on the TV table as I will probably never get on that table. Both players were guaranteed $2500 at the time of the exchange over paying on the TV table came up, so it wasn't like they couldn't afford the $6 it might cost them to play the match.
Thank you to CSI, TAR and Bad Boy's Billiard Productions for not being afraid to risk the time and money it takes to put on these events. Without people in the industry like Mark Griffin, Justin Collett and Ric Jones, who are willing to put on events and bring them to the public to watch, pool would be back to what it was 30 years ago, when tournaments were played on crappy equipment, for very little money and no one got to see them, because there was no coverage.[/QUOTE


This guy rick Jones is payed to do what he's doing he isn't putting his money on the line here . Yes thank you to CSI for risking the time and money it takes to put on these events , I think this is more truthful.
 
Good post!

Everyone is assuming the other players in the event were upset to pay per game via coins. I was at the event. I played in all three ladies events. I played side by side pros and non pros, females and males. I never heard one person complain about having to put coins in per game.

It's the U.S. Bar Table Championships for goodness sake.

This sums it up for me.
 
I think this could have been handled better by all involved. If Stevie had a problem, it should have been taken up with tournament direction after the match and not in view of any spectators.

But this public "outing" of his behavior is unprofessional as well. Your post lacks diplomacy in any form...and it also lacks any respect for Stevie as a professional...or a human being for that matter. Gentlemen works business matters out privately. And if you say that it was him who wasn't being a gentleman so why should you?....then I say lead by example instead of treating someone poorly simply because they did it first.

This isn't a playground. And bullying isn't nice.

Melissa
Absolutely right on !!! - but that is what happens when you give some people some degree of authority
 
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