Users of the Spinning Wagon Wheel?

[CurvedCue]

This drill by Bob Jewett that's an offshoot of the Wagon Wheel looks fantastic.
http://www.onthebreaknews.com/?p=3294

But need some clarification from those who've used it. Is extreme Follow with extreme Right needed to carom Ball 1? And from there on you start hitting a little lower (though still with right-spin)? Though by Balls 4 & 5 it's just pure (low) Follow?

I wish there was one of those CB targets with the hit illustrated for each shot. Us, beginners need every aid. :grin-square:

 

[scottjen26]

I wouldn't say extreme follow at all, or even extreme side. For ball 1 you would need a decent amount of side spin for sure and some follow as well and the ball should be hit softly to enhance the spin. It's a skill that must be developed.

For the rest of the balls, yes, in general you would back off from this maximum position and use less side spin and/or follow to send the ball to each position.

Keep in mind, a lot of this depends on how you cut the ball into the corner, especially on easier equipment. If you contact the ball a little fuller, sending the ball off the rail slightly and into the pocket, you will get a different result than if you hit the ball thinner, sending it into the far (right hand) side of the pocket. Blending this hit with the speed/spin used can result in vastly different results from the same initial position.

Enjoy!
Scott

 

[CurvedCue]

I wouldn't say extreme follow at all, or even extreme side. For ball 1 you would need a decent amount of side spin for sure and some follow as well and the ball should be hit softly to enhance the spin.
Scott

Ah, hitting softly! It's definitely something I need to remind myself of. Soft = More Spin, Draw, Follow.

When you say "some follow" do you mean plain regular Follow with progressively less Follow (hit lower on the CB) for the next several shots?

 

[bbb]

for me shot 1 is a soft stroke and right spin no follow

 

[scottjen26]

Ah, hitting softly! It's definitely something I need to remind myself of. Soft = More Spin, Draw, Follow.

When you say "some follow" do you mean plain regular Follow with progressively less Follow (hit lower on the CB) for the next several shots?

I'd have to be at the table, and as I said I might be able to hit each of the positions multiple ways depending on how I choose to hit the OB into the pocket.

The first shot might be all side spin, center ball or made a little high, I wouldn't use draw. Then try just hitting the ball with a nice, natural, rolling ball to figure out the natural path - I'm guessing that would be around ball 5, ball 6 would be a stun shot. Then for balls 2 - 4 you blend the side spin and follow to achieve those various hits.

Scott

 

[ENGLISH!]

I never really did do drills but this might help some.

Hit the CB in the center & pocket the ball into the center of the pocket & watch the path that the CB takes & see where it hits the rail. That would be the base line & should tell one what needs to be done to get to the other locations.

I would also suggest that all interested watch SlomoHolic's around the clock slo mo video. It shows the potential advantage of knowing what can be done by all of the different 'english locatations'.

http://www.youtube.com/slomoholic

 

[CurvedCue]

I'd have to be at the table, and as I said I might be able to hit each of the positions multiple ways depending on how I choose to hit the OB into the pocket.

Strangely enough, I've managed to come close to balls 1, 2 & 3 using only Right English. And I was able to get near balls 11, 10 & 9 using only Draw or only Left English. Combining Draw or Follow with English didn't seem to have any advantage. Although I understand combining them widens the angle (either forward or backward)? Is that right?

I guess everything depends on your stroke (how hard or soft) and where exactly you're hitting the OB?

Are my results proof of the endless variety of ways one can shoot the same shot?

Or am I just weird? :sorry:

 

[CurvedCue]

Bump. Bump.

I could really use clarification on this. Just had a game situation come up resembling this drill. A perfect example of how a person can practice something but seeing it in real-life can cause mass vexation!

I had a situation where the nominal "15" ball was frozen to the rail and I wanted to make it and drive the CB into the "10" ball area (to break up two frozen balls).

I had no idea how to do this. (I ended up using only Follow and the CB ended up where the "1" ball is)

Would center Right English have done the job?

Or would I need to to HIGH Right English?

Question: Doesn't combining High or Low spin with English widen or "flatten" the angle? In that case, why didn't using only Follow in my situation make the CB go towards 4 or 5? Was it because the OB was frozen against the rail in my case?

I AM PERPLEXED!

 

[Neil]

Bump. Bump.

I could really use clarification on this. Just had a game situation come up resembling this drill. A perfect example of how a person can practice something but seeing it in real-life can cause mass vexation!

I had a situation where the nominal "15" ball was frozen to the rail and I wanted to make it and drive the CB into the "10" ball area (to break up two frozen balls).

I had no idea how to do this. (I ended up using only Follow and the CB ended up where the "1" ball is)

Would center Right English have done the job?

Or would I need to to HIGH Right English?

Question: Doesn't combining High or Low spin with English widen or "flatten" the angle? In that case, why didn't using only Follow in my situation make the CB go towards 4 or 5? Was it because the OB was frozen against the rail in my case?

I AM PERPLEXED!

Is the picture below the one you are referring to? Except the 15 was frozen to the rail? Referring to the top of the picture.

 

[CurvedCue]

Is the picture below the one you are referring to? Except the 15 was frozen to the rail? Referring to the top of the picture.

View attachment 299180

YES! :thumbup:

Thanks for putting the diagram in a post! I don't know how to do that. (How do you do that???)

Also, correction: I was trying to drive the CB into where the 2-ball is. (I said "10-ball" because in the actual game I was facing the shot from the other direction; CB was on the other side. But for simplicity's sake let's just work with the diagram! )

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Thanks for putting the diagram in a post! I don't know how to do that. (How do you do that???) ...

When in the normal editing window, there is a tool bar at the top of the window where you type in text. One of the tools there is an attachment tool indicated by a paper clip that will let you upload pictures. To get the picture into a file in the first place, there are many tools that do screen captures to a file.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I had a situation where the nominal "15" ball was frozen to the rail and I wanted to make it and drive the CB into the (2) ball area (to break up two frozen balls).

I had no idea how to do this....

First, playing such shots with the object ball frozen to the cushion is more difficult than when not frozen. The result changes a lot depending on how much earlier the cue ball strikes the cushion than the object ball (and it is usually in that order).

If you want to learn the angle the cue ball will leave the rail for such shots, you will have to practice them and pay attention to the cut angle, whether you hit the rail more or less ahead of the object ball, how much draw/follow you have on the cue ball, and how much side spin you have on the cue ball. There are formulas to figure this stuff out without ever having shot a ball in your life, but practically the only way you will learn is by doing and by paying attention as you do. The same is true for pretty much all drills. After you have some experience, you may want to look at the formulas so you have a framework to put your experience on.