Vintage Ivory cue Id please help!

The wrap definitely looks Martin. The joint does not nor does the shaft collars.
But cuemakers often experiment with other things and abandon them pretty fast if they like something else better. For instance I built a handful of cues with a one piece stainless joint that the screw and collar were one piece, similar to what that cue has, but my stainless was about 1/2" long.
 
cueman said:
The wrap definitely looks Martin. The joint does not nor does the shaft collars.
But cuemakers often experiment with other things and abandon them pretty fast if they like something else better. For instance I built a handful of cues with a one piece stainless joint that the screw and collar were one piece, similar to what that cue has, but my stainless was about 1/2" long.
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Yeah off all the research I have done, it looks the most like a Martin, but if it is, it's so unique that no one will vouch for it.

Who are all the Harvey Martin specialists these days?

R.I.P. - Bert S. & TAD :(
 
Sure, the overall look and taper does look like it could be a Martin, but the metal joint work and metal band in the butt sleeve with name does not look close to anything of his I have ever seen on one...early, late or otherwise. Also, where the maple pieces meet in the forearm, just above the wrap, doesn't look like anything he would have done. There's just no reason for having that exposed there unless maybe it was an old repair done at some point.

Without having one of those guys around to validate the cue, I think there's little that can be done to establish a bonafide link to H.M.
 
I'm not sure that this cue is a Martin, although many things look similar to his work. It would be difficult for me to say this is a Martin because I have never seen one with that joint, a metal band in the buttsleeve, nor the wood ring above the wrap - and I have seen many, many Martins. But who knows, it could be a rare find of an earlier cue. Harvey did have a metal background as well as woodwork, so???

A little of my 'Martin' background: I moved to Los Angeles area beginning late 1976 where I worked a short while w/Bert Schrager, became great friends /Bert & his wife. I also became friends w/Allen Gilbert and George Aronek (and others that knew Harvey Martin) working a few times w/Gilbert on my 3-cushion. I played out of Tiff Payne's N. Hollywood Billiards. Gilbert brought Harvey to one of our sessions in a private home. This was one of the best experiences of my life getting to spend the day w/Harvey. He even showed me how he put on tips, which gave the same warm feeling I got when I watched my grandfather work when I was young.

My point is I saw many Martin cues and have talked to him about cuemaking and a this type of cue was never mentioned. But this sure doesn't mean it's not, but I would guess no.

Both Bert & Gilbert are dead so I think the best person to ask at his time may be George Aronek who used to be USBA (US 3-cushion Assoc) president and I believe still plays out of the Burbank Elks. He would at least be able to suggest another person - maybe Ernie Gutierrez from Gina cue fame?

Hope this helps.

Dave

One last thought - if the cue unscrews above the joint and the weight can be adjusted in the forearm, that would be a good sign it may be a Martin.
 
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12squared said:
One last thought - if the cue unscrews above the joint and the weight can be adjusted in the forearm, that would be a good sign it may be a Martin.
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Can you elaborate on this a little more?
Are you saying I can twist/unscrew the ivory collar and joint pin on my Martins?
 
cueman said:
Can you elaborate on this a little more?
Are you saying I can twist/unscrew the ivory collar and joint pin on my Martins?
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I'm sorry, I meant to say that if you could unscrew the forearm from the wrap like a jump/break cue, that may explain the wood ring above the wrap that I have never seen on a Martin.

Harvey experimented with being able to change weight/balance throughout the cue. Example is Allen Gilbert's ivory handle Martin: he could unscrew above the ivory handle in the same area as the wood ring to adjust the weight. I think he could also adjust the weight of the shaft or at the joint end of the butt and below the wrap. So I think there were 3 different areas where the weight could be adjusted. I wasn't aware he did this on his wood cues but it's possible.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

Dave
 
12squared said:
I'm sorry, I meant to say that if you could unscrew the forearm from the wrap like a jump/break cue, that may explain the wood ring above the wrap that I have never seen on a Martin.

Harvey experimented with being able to change weight/balance throughout the cue. Example is Allen Gilbert's ivory handle Martin: he could unscrew above the ivory handle in the same area as the wood ring to adjust the weight. I think he could also adjust the weight of the shaft or at the joint end of the butt and below the wrap. So I think there were 3 different areas where the weight could be adjusted. I wasn't aware he did this on his wood cues but it's possible.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

Dave
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Does anyone know, have cues been X-Ray'd for construction / ID purposes before?
 
skierlawyer said:
Can I buy this cue?
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it's a friends, as far as I know YES it's still for sale (for the right price). There was a previous offer for just under $1K which fell through. Since we have not been able to verify origin it's hard to sell this as anything but a "Vintage extremely interesting Ivory cue"! ;) There is no rush to sell it, since I think research is the key to this cue.
 
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