Well Done! Fury World Summit at Amsterdam

Holly

Holly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Fury World Summit of Pool being held at Amsterdam Billiards East in NYC has been a fantastic event. The matches and play has been throughout top notch and excellent and the staff at Amsterdam has once again consistantly been friendly, efficient, and professional.

The stands have been through all the matches, beginning with the very first day, either full or in the case of tonights latest matches, which started at 11 pm, at least 60% of the seats had a person in them. The spectators have enthusiastically but appropriately responded to the great level of play. The UPA has done a great job and the wonderful guys from Worldpool.com have been diligent and successful in their goal to bring pool more to the masses through their live feed to the internet through and supported on the Microsoft website.

I strongly encourage anyone who is able and free tomorrow and who cannot attend the tournament in NYC in person to tune in to watch the event on the web. Please read the updates posted here on the AZBilliards of the tournament to get further details on the URL and how to connect to the live converage.

The more we support these endeavors to further the viewership of pool and billiards, the more potential outside industry and corporate sponsorship could be eventually garnered. This is much needed in the sport that we all love. We have the power to bring pool to a higher level financially, but it will take more than one, five, a small group or one organization to do it. It will take all of us from those who sit on the BCA Board, run regional tours, the various national pool leagues or the leadership of the WPBA or UPA, it will also take everyone who plays or loves the game on any level to participate. We all have a role to play in helping the game to progress to another level financially and to in it's viewship.

Thanks to everyone involved with this past week at Amsterdam Billiards and the UPA for putting together such a fine event.

All the best,
Holly
(Chesapeake Area Tour / CAT)
 
What was the price of admission per day??
How many seats were there?
How many seats had players sitting in them?
How many seats had wives/girl friends of the players or other non-paying persons?

And only 60% full when they got down to the better players isn't saying much for the drawing power of the better players.

And what was the gate take for the event. That should be public knowledge.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
What was the price of admission per day??
How many seats were there?
How many seats had players sitting in them?
How many seats had wives/girl friends of the players or other non-paying persons?

And only 60% full when they got down to the better players isn't saying much for the drawing power of the better players.

And what was the gate take for the event. That should be public knowledge.

Jake
Click to expand...


Is the gate at tennis tournaments, golf tournaments, karate tournaments and the like made public knowledge? Why should it be?

I am more interested to know why a live feed to the web was not advertised before the thing started? They should have had a rep on all the boards informing us of that.

John
 
Sounds to me like this was a crappy showing and you are trying to salvage the last day.
From what I have read, it was a rather bad showing of players....... The top players were someplace in arab world.

Jake had some great questions, please give us some answers
 
jjinfla said:
And what was the gate take for the event. That should be public knowledge. [/B]
Click to expand...
I don't get it. Why should it be?

But more importantly, were the players allowed to autograph the fan's balls?
 
I really didn't think it was such a complicated question. Or one that anyone should be afraid or ashamed to answer.

Okay, let me put it this way.

a) What was the price of admission?

b) How many seats were offered for sale?

Surely the promoter had a seating chart?

But rest assured, I really don't give a rip. But it would give an indication of where professional pool stands today.

As for asking the pros to sign a cueball for me - I gave up on that. Too demeaning - to me! And because most of them can't write and it just comes out as a scribble. It seems they want fame and recognition but can't write their name so it is legible.

A year or so ago at a Tommy Kennedy tournament I bought Capelle's book on 9-ball and the guy said it was signed by Capelle. So after I bought it I opened the cover and started laughing when I saw his autograph. It looked like a kid was drawing circles. And yes I know about the uniqueness of a signature so don't even bother. Since these signatures will never have any value what good are they if no one can read them? Not even me. So I printed the name under them.

Jake
 
Wow...I am suprised at some of these questions directed from my post. Being that I was a mere fan and spectator at this event these are not questions that I have sufficient knowledge to answer. You know not everyone is perfect, certainly there may have been better notification of the internet feed, however there was information posted. I personally did not realize going into the event that Worldpool.com was providing a live feed, but after witnesing what they have been doing I am adding them to my favorites list and will follow more carefully the fine work they are doing. As far as fans in relationship to family, spouses...there were not that many really from what I could tell - most were actual non-familial supporters for the event. I would rather applaud those who do give time, money and effort towards furthering the game. I did not realize that promoting and praising well done efforts for our sport could draw such venom. Whenever I personally feel like knocking someone for the work and effort they put into something I try to ask myself first what have I done that has also been a positive contribution.

Is it so much easier to throw stones than it is to lend support or contribute in a positive way? We all live in glass houses you know.
 
jjinfla said:
I really didn't think it was such a complicated question. Or one that anyone should be afraid or ashamed to answer.

Okay, let me put it this way.
,,,,,,,,
Jake
Click to expand...

can't give specifics but,,,,,,,,,,,the quality of the group was not as good as those at the masters tournament, and the ABC ticket prices were higher. ...............add to that, the attendance at the masters tournament was mediocre(seats were never more than 60% full,,,and that was for the last night).
 
It is awful that Charlie Williams boycotted the U.S. Open, and then the night the U.S. Open was going to be shown on Pay-Per-View or DISH, he has his tournament broadcast at the same exact time.

Charlie Williams enforced rules to prevent other pool players from attending his tournament, deliberately and discriminatorily.

Charlie Williams should be taken to court for creating a categorization rule that prevents pool players from making a living. Requiring pool players to join his union or else be banned from playing in UPA-sanctioned events is discriminatory, especially when you allow other pool players to attend by just paying a mere $25 fee. He created the "touring pro" category in an effort to force pool players to join his union.

Charging tournament promoters $1,500 to "allow" UPA to sanction a tournament is a joke. If the promoter doesn't pay $1,500, Charlie Williams informs the tournament promoter that none of his union UPA members will attend. The promoter wants to make money and gives in to Charlie William's demands.

I used to think it was UPA, but it is Charlie Williams.

BTW, Holly is a first-class lady and she knows a lot about pool running her CAT events, but how in the world is she supposed to know the answers to some of the questions posted in this thread? And actually, 60 percent attendance in this pool world is good compared to other venues I have witnessed. What is the joke is how Charlie Williams wants to give orders to pool players who were playing pool and competing before he was even born, like he's entitled to, this self-proclaimed president of the UPA.

UPA hurts pool. UPA and their damn contracts. Give me a break.

ManlyShot
 
Manlyshot,
I agree with all you say. However, the fact is that after two years this is the first event put on by the UPA that I believe does what they should be doing. That is, bringing sponsorship into pool and putting on their own event. Actually this was CW's production and not the UPA's. I don't know what that means other than you can't even give the UPA credit for it.

The real shame here is that after two years they have alienated so many people who thought the UPA was the answer to what pool needed.

It's disgraceful that with the UPA's first significant event, Earl, Corey, Keith, Troy, Francisco, Efren, and Thorsten didn't play.
Ken
 
Ken in CT said:
Manlyshot,
I agree with all you say. However, the fact is that after two years this is the first event put on by the UPA that I believe does what they should be doing. That is, bringing sponsorship into pool and putting on their own event. Actually this was CW's production and not the UPA's. I don't know what that means other than you can't even give the UPA credit for it.

The real shame here is that after two years they have alienated so many people who thought the UPA was the answer to what pool needed.

It's disgraceful that with the UPA's first significant event, Earl, Corey, Keith, Troy, Francisco, Efren, and Thorsten didn't play.
Ken
Click to expand...

Ken in CT, Charlie Williams is the UPA, and he makes up rules as he goes along. Creating this new "touring pro" category is Charlie Williams attempting to force pool players to join his UPA union.

If and when he is called upon to justify his actions in another venue, I wonder how sponsors, existing and future sponsors, would feel about helping Charlie Williams and the UPA perform discriminatory actions that are actually against the law.

Charlie Williams has hurt men's pool immeasurably, and this nightmare continues to this day. Until somebody makes him accountable, he will continue to come up with more damaging acts in men's pool.

Again, I used to think it was the UPA, but Charlie is driving the UPA machine. This guy in his twenties, who hasn't been around the block YET, is giving orders, enforcing his own made-up rules, and expecting older pool players to follow his lead like the Pied Piper. The UPA is the pimp, and what are the pool players who sign those legal contracts, providing UPA endorsements and the like?

ManlyShot
 
Holly and Manlyshot, So now I am the bad guy for asking a few questions. Holly, you volunteered some facts and I was asking for clarification. Since you were there surely you know what the price of admission was, or were you let in for free?

And when you state that 60% of the seats were full that is a meaningless statement unless you tell how many seats there were. Were there 10 or 100? 6 or 60 fans?

Since I believe the UPA provides for 1 free seat per player (Archer probably gets 3) then I would say that most of the people there were just friends of the players. If that is so then there really is no real participation by the public in watching a pool tournament.

I evidently was one of the few fans who used to pay to watch a pro tournament. Keywords: was; used to.

And for doing so I got kicked in the ass.

Payback is a Bitch! LOL

As for asking the pros to sign anything I gave that up. It was too demeaning - to me. Lowering myself to a lowly fawning fan. How stupid. Besides, most of them scribble and their signatures are not readible. So I have to print the name under their signature.
And there is absolutely no market value.

Manlyshot, as far as CW discriminating I think that is impossible since he is Korean and therefore a minority. And according what I have heard Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etal, say on FOX TV minorities cannot discriminate because they do not have the power to enforce it.

But if you think you have a course of action against the UPA for depriving you of your livelihood then contact the ACLU and see what they say. They may represent you for free. Or you can contact the New York Bar Association for an attorney who may review your case pro bono. The Chicago Bar Association is pretty good in doing that so I would assume the New York Bar also provides that service. Just look in the phone book and call the New York Bar Association.

At least that way you will know once and for all if you even have a course of action. For all I know, the UPA with their pro bono lawyers, probably are running things completely according to the letter of the law. At least I would hope so. It might not seem fair, but it is my understanding that fair is not a legal term.

More important, was Amsterdam Billiards happy with their contract with the UPA? Was it a financial success for them? Will they do it again?

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
Holly and Manlyshot, So now I am the bad guy for asking a few questions.

More important, was Amsterdam Billiards happy with their contract with the UPA? Was it a financial success for them? Will they do it again?
Click to expand...

Jake, that is a very good question. I don't think the response would be joyous if it were asked to Alexandra Dyer, independent promoter of Big Apple, and Dennis Wilson, independent promoter of Capital City Classic, but you are right in your thinking that if a tournament is a financial success, then that would lend credibility to the UPA.

I hope that Dragon Productions enjoyed a huge success on their recent Fury World Summit of Pool held this past week. I know Johnny Archer must be a happy camper.

ManlyShot
 
manlyshot said:
It is awful that Charlie Williams boycotted the U.S. Open, and then the night the U.S. Open was going to be shown on Pay-Per-View or DISH, he has his tournament broadcast at the same exact time.
Click to expand...

No big deal.
The Dish PPV is available all week long 24 hours/day on the Dish All-Day-Ticket.

For only $9.95 you get all showings from 10/12 - 10/17. Watch Reyes and Bustamante battle it out Hill/Hill.

Plus, get shot-by-shot highlights from 3 other matches and the final shots of the Pagulayan vs. McCready match.

It's the best TV pool production you've ever seen, guaranteed.
 
thanks, holly

I wish I had time to go to NYC when the big apple challenge was on, it seemed the most competitive tournament this year in USA,
not following the Fury Summit much though, IMHO, Johny Archer is the one who has the most class as a pool player, not to mention his great talent, I hope him getting on TV more.

cheers

wonderer:p
 
In answer to ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS

Okay, I'm one of the managers at Amsterdam Billiards & Bar and I hope that by the end of my message, I will have clarified everything for those following this thread.


Firstly, Amsterdam Billiards & Bar is capable of seating approximately 200 people. Most of the seating was general admission, which was good since it allowed the spectators to move around the tournament arena in order to get a better view of the match they were most interested in watching. Every day was split into two sessions. The first two days, sessions were $25. The last two days, sessions were $35. You could have also purchased a full tournament pass (Gold Pass) for $150 or a Platinum Pass for $200 which would have given you V.I.P. seating throughout the event.

Turn-out was solid, as expected and very few players stayed to watch the finale so it can be assumed that most of the people present for the last day paid to attend.


As for the players that chose to not attend, it was a bit disappointing to not see some of the more familiar faces in pool but I think it should be noted who DID decide to attend. This was by no means a local or B-level event. We had Johnny Archer, Jose Parica, George San Souci (Ginky), Nick Varner, Mika Immonen, Charlie Williams (of course), Max Eberle, Rodney Morris, Danny Basavich & Neils Feijen and these are just some of the names that immediately come to mind.

Also, one should keep in mind that this was the first major men's 9-ball event held in New York City EVER and with good reason! Unlike having an event in Las Vegas or Atlanta, hotel rooms and general expenses in New York City are outrageous. It can make the trip a losing proposition for anyone not finishing in the top six. Once an alternative is suggested, such as an all expenses-paid trip to Dubai is offered, it can make for some serious competition.

I don't know if the UPA was aware of the event in Dubai prior to the initial announcement of The World Summit but I can assure you, I was not aware of it until a little over a month ago. Yes, it would have been a real treat to have had those guys in attendance, some of whom I've never seen play live before but having been there, having played in it and having watched most of it, I can tell you that it was still a ton of fun, especially in a city that sorely needed something like this.


From what I've seen with Men's Pool, Charlie Williams has his work cut out for him. In case anyone has noticed, contracts are COMMON PLACE in sports and are necessary for the general good of the sport. Could you imagine what the state of baseball would be in if Barry Bonds could abandon his team and play in non-MLB events during the course of the baseball season simply because they paid more? In order for Men's Pool to have ANY negotiating power, they need to be able to act as a unit. They need to know that their members will act in accordance with its leaders and its members need to accept the fact that there is a greater good in mind and at stake.

Don't get me wrong, I know the current state of pool and I can understand that players are very concerned about themselves and for good reason. Nobody's making a fortune with a pool cue and the UPA is the latest in a long line of organizations that have attempted to unite the brotherhood. But, if you can picture a world that has pool on ESPN live, the latest tournament results in your local sports listings and where the average American knows Johnny Archer's name then you have to support any attempt at unity.


Lastly, these guys are doing these tournaments FOR NOTHING. The only money Charlie Williams pulled down were his tournament winnings. ALL of the money went back to the players. Oh and btw, everyone was paid immediately. I think we could all be a little less critical of them and instead of seeking out what might be wrong, try and appreciate what's right.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
Geez, enough whining about the 60% attendance already! In case anybody missed it, the 60% attendance was only for the 11pm matches, which on Friday night were losers' bracket matches. The seats were quite full for the 6pm and especially 9pm matches; at least they were on Friday night. In fact, it was standing-room only for the match between Mika Immonen and local favorite Tony Robles. There were even people who stuck around for the 12pm losers' bracket matches. I was fortunate enough to be in the first row of seating that night, and let me tell you, $25 was well worth it, especially in New York where a 2-hour play costs upward of $60.

I had a great time and would easily do it again if such a tournament ever comes up again in New York.
 
Great to read your post, Jude, and it sounds like you had a first-class tournament. The positive replies from those lucky ones who attended also reinforce this wonderful event. It is very unfortunate that the Dubai event coincided with the Dragon Productions event. Should be a pool clearinghouse or something to prevent these types of logistical scheduling problems.

As far as contracts "being commonplace" in American sports, other sports industries cannot, and should not, be compared to pool and the UPA, but it is obvious how one deems this to be a credible argument.

Legally binding contracts, randomly creating pool player categories for the sole intent of preventing certain pool players from participating in a tournament unless they join the UPA, having UPA representatives passing out legal documents at tournament commencements for immediate signatures by un-counseled pool players, personality conflicts between the self-proclaimed president of the UPA (not a pool veteran) and Earl Strickland preventing Earl's attendance at UPA-sanctioned events, charging a promoter $1,500 for UPA sanctioning or UPA members will not attend this poor guy's event doesn't help pool (IMO).

I am sure every single pool player who placed in the money at the Fury World Summit of Pool was elated to get the cash. There are still hushed secrets nowadays after some tournaments. It is good to hear your tournament winners left with full pockets.

I was fortunate to be able to go to the Big Apple tournament this past August, another UPA-sanctioned event, and I did get to see some of the best male 9-ball pool players in the world. It was a high-caliber event, and every single pool player who participated was a champion of some sorts. I especially enjoyed seeing Efren, Jose Parica, Bustie, Santos, and Alex the Lion. Some GREAT pool. Even with the Big Apple's players meeting on the eve of the New York City outage, this 90-plus player event held on Queens Boulevard West at Masters Billiards was hugely successful. You New Yorkers do have a great spirit.

BTW, at Big Apple tournament, there was talk of an upcoming men's 9-ball tournament to take place inside of Grand Central Station, but I haven't heard any further developments on this one. It is great that the tournament promoters like Amsterdam and Masters are able to provide pool player hotel rates.

Congratulations on a successful tournament. I hope to be able to attend the next one.

ManlyShot
 
My understanding is that next year's World Summit event will be held at Grand Central Station. Of course, I'm certain things still need to get worked out but I am under the impression this is going to happen.

Jude
 
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