What about Rotation !

[Hail Mary Shot]

No safeties in "Rotation"? You're not quite familiar with the game are you? Hehehe

Actually, it's the common safety battles that makes this game a lot of fun to watch. This is the "bread & butter" of games of old-time pool-sharks here in the islands (Philippines).

Rotation is actually a more strategical game compared to 9b and 10b. Back here, only a handful of top-players would even think about competing against Efren on rotation (Efren would play anybody in the world on this game). But they would all want a piece of him if it's gonna be 9b or 10b!

Now there's a true game of skill. In Rotation, you don't think about just connecting the dots. Most often (almost every rack, under whatever conditions and equiptment used) problems would arise as ball clusters or heavy traffic for the cue ball. The skill to navigate that CB thru 15 balls of rotation on the table is way harder than 15 balls of 8-ball or 14.1. Remember, you hafta hit the balls in numbered sequence in rotation!

Now that's just the easy part of the game.

Strategy here is a lot more complicated than it looks from a viewers standpoint. Imagine a situation wherein you do get to shoot the "spot-shot" BUT both corners have blocking balls!?! What would you do? Imagine having to clear a path first before finally pocketing the OB within about 2-3 shots, all the while playing safe everytime so as to force your opponent to respot each turn!

I can't describe it enough here how our top players do it. I'm sure Jay has a very good idea what I'm talking about since he's spent some time here. But let me assure you, when it's rotation you wanna learn, you definitely hafta come to the Philippines!

I've watched rotation games from a few other countries. (Sometimes with a few modified rules. I'm actually lucky if I do see someone playing rotation at all that's not Filipino!) The ones I liked best were a few Europeans (Germans, I think). But even they don't come near to the skill level of pinoy rotation players.

I hafta admit everybody's getting a lot better (or luckier) at 9-ball and 10-ball to the point that lotsa non-pinoy players can beat ours on any given day. It's really a hard guess nowadays.

But if the WPC was played on rotation games, I'm willing to bet that the title would be within the Philippines for atleast the first 10 years of that transition! Efren would probably take the first 2-3 titles.

My confidence lies in the fact that it is the first pool game that most pinoys learn. Even in the provinces. Its a basic thing to us. Wherein, most foreign pool players wouldn't even know the rules of the game. Or has never seen it played.

Of course, given time, it will be a game wherein anybody can win it. Everything will level out in time.

I agree with this. If the WPC since it's conception were a rotation game, I can 100% surely say that the Pinoys would dominate it for a minimum of a decade and 5 or 2. not to boast or suprised that the placings in the quarterfinals alone would already be an All-Filipino matches.

I remember now the term known as "placing" in rotation which means safety. so there is really a safety game. I'm just wondering what or which pool game doesn't have a safety. surely snooker has, and so as 3C, 1P, 8-ball and 9-ball.

 

[Perk]

No Back here, only a handful of top-players would even think about competing against Efren on rotation (Efren would play anybody in the world on this game). But they would all want a piece of him if it's gonna be 9b or 10b!

Dont know why, but this statement stands out of that whole write up. Kinda find it hard to believe.

Good insight on rotation btw.

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

Ok. Sorry about that. I may have misunderstood your post.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Um I said it isn't the safety play AS IN the way we think of safety play in 9-ball. This isn't right? There is no ball in hand correct? Well if there isn't ball in hand automatically safty play changes, AS IN THE WAY WE THINK OF IT IN 9-BALL. As ive said before, you can play a safety, however you can reject playing it, hence making it different than what are used to in 9-ball. And then when your opponent accepts the spot shot, he can play a safety, however since it is already on the spot and he has to start with ball behind the headstring, this is different than the safeties we think of when we think of safeties in 9-ball. So maybe you should read my post a little more closely before you correct me, or maybe its just you aren't very familiar with the game.

it's just the both of you misunderstood each others statements. take it easy guys !

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

Are you sure about this? Last time I heard is you have to hit a rail after a hit, be it the object or the cue ball.

Actually, a legal shot in rotation requires either a pocketed ball or something has to touch a rail. Regardless if it's either before or after the CB hits the OB. As long as the CB hits the OB before hitting any other ball, it's fine. It still counts as a legal shot before or after hitting a rail.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Dont know why, but this statement stands out of that whole write up. Kinda find it hard to believe.

Good insight on rotation btw.

Heard that Alcano plays him on a regular basis, but still has no luck taking the title away from Efren. Alcano is also a great rotation player.

 

[gopi-1]

Here's another variation of Rotation to wrack your brains out!

Okay! Let's make it more interesting! Here's another Filipino way of playing
Rotation for some cheese. Two to up to 4 players can play at the same time,
sort of a ring game. It's a good game to hone your skills while making some
jelly beans on the side.

They call it "Side-side", were all 4 players lag to determine the shooting order.
Let's just say you're playing for $50 dollars a game, and $5 dollars for every
point you earn. A ball pocketed legitimately other than the lowest numbered
ball will earn a point. A good example is if you pocketed a wing ball (the 2 or
3 ball) off the break earns you a point. Object ball (lowest numbered ball on
the table) pocketed in any of the side pockets will also give you a point. If
you happen to pocket a ball other than the lowest numbered ball in the side
pocket, that's 2 points for you, UNLESS it's a foul shot and the 2 points is
nullified and on top of that, you will lose a point. A scratch will lose you a
point, CB off the table will also lose you a point. If you and your friends are
starting from scratch and the breaker lost the CB or scratched off the
break, everybody gets a point except the shooter. All balls pocketed
illegitimately will be re-spotted. As an added incentive, pocketing any of
the 5, 10 and 15 ball and the last ball on the table will earn you another 5
points, so safety plays is usually the norm when a money ball is about to
come up. If somebody gets to 61 or over (all the balls he pocketed are
added up), he gets a point for every ball he makes. A good example will be
the shooter who already have the nuts (61 or over) pocketed the 15 ball
which happens to be the ball in that game in the side pocket will give him
12 points. That will be 5 points for a money ball, 5 points for the last ball
on the table, 1 point for the side pocket, and another point for having the
nuts. I almost forgot to mention that a spotted ball pocketed will also give
you 1 point. After every game, everybody pays everybody accordingly,
depending on how much points you've earned. I've seen someone winning
the game but ended up paying the others players because of the points
the other players earned. The object of the game is to get the nuts and
earn as much points as you can!

It would be easier if you have a Filipino friend to show you how this game
works, it sounds too complicated to me too!

 

[gopi-1]

Actually, a legal shot in rotation requires either a pocketed ball or something has to touch a rail. Regardless if it's either before or after the CB hits the OB. As long as the CB hits the OB before hitting any other ball, it's fine. It still counts as a legal shot before or after hitting a rail.

I'm not too sold about that bro. You play rail first, hit the OB and and didn't hit a rail after is still considered a good shot???

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

Dont know why, but this statement stands out of that whole write up. Kinda find it hard to believe.

Good insight on rotation btw.

Believe it man!

Dennis Orcullo, Lee Van Corteza, Roberto Gomez, even Jeff De Luna (and few more others like them) would not turn down an EVEN MATCH against either Efren, Django or Ronnie Alcano if it's gonna be 9-ball or 10-ball. Even their backers/financers/managers would almost immediately jump at it!

However, all of them would ask for big weight if they would play either Django or Ronnie on Rotation. And with Efren.....they would ask something heavier even now in his weakest state of gameplay!

BTW-FYI, one reason Efren likes Ronnie is that (according to Efren himself) "Ronnie is the one closest to emulate my style of play. He would sometimes do some unique shots the very same way I would do 'em."

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Actually, a legal shot in rotation requires either a pocketed ball or something has to touch a rail. Regardless if it's either before or after the CB hits the OB. As long as the CB hits the OB before hitting any other ball, it's fine. It still counts as a legal shot before or after hitting a rail.

this means that if you hit the OB with the CB without hitting a rail before or after to a rail or another OB not being hit by either the CB or the intended OB , then it's a foul.

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

I'm not too sold about that bro. You play rail first, hit the OB and and didn't hit a rail after is still considered a good shot???

Yup. It is considered a legal shot.

You can actually simply "marry up" that CB to the OB after rail, and it is still considered legal.

But that is how it is played nationally here. Of course, international competition rules may vary. I've heard somewhere in Europe that it is the same there. Then I asked them who taught them and they said it was Django Bustamante!

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I'm not too sold about that bro. You play rail first, hit the OB and and didn't hit a rail after is still considered a good shot???

it's the common poolhall junkie rotation rule. it's still in effect. some however played it differently now and requires another contact rail or ball after the intended OB hit. only saw the hit/rail contact being implemented on shortstop matches. other than that, it's still accepted as a goodshot.

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

this means that if you hit the OB with the CB without hitting a rail before or after to a rail or another OB not being hit by either the CB or the intended OB , then it's a foul.

Legal shots:
1) Pocketing a ball by CB hitting the OB first. Regardless of any sort (or lack) of rail contact.
2) Hitting the balls in this order;
a) CB-OB-rail (any ball)
b) CB-rail/s-OB

Basically as long as the CB hits the OB before hitting any other ball AND there is a rail touched on that shot, it is legal. Without a pocketted ball or a rail touched, proper CB-OB hit may happen but is still considered illegal/foul coz no rail was contacted.

 

[gopi-1]

it's the common poolhall junkie rotation rule. it's still in effect. some however played it differently now and requires another contact rail or ball after the intended OB hit. only saw the hit/rail contact being implemented on shortstop matches. other than that, it's still accepted as a goodshot.

I've been playing rotation for at least 40 years now, the last time I saw this
kind ruling was when me and my friends were just starting to learn pool!

Even the bangers I know back home doesn't use this ruling, so I was a bit
surprised when Darth Pinoy posted that is is considered a legal shot...

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

I've been playing rotation for at least 40 years now, the last time I saw this
kind ruling was when me and my friends were just starting to learn pool!

Even the bangers I know back home doesn't use this ruling, so I was a bit
surprised when Darth Pinoy posted that is is considered a legal shot...

I haven't been playing that long. But I hope 25 years of pool playing will be enough to atleast define how we do it here. It's the first pool game I ever played/learned with my Dad.

It is an accepted rule here. CB-rail/s-OB is considered legal here by normal standards anywhere in the Philippines. If the aforementioned is accomplished, there is no need for another rail contact to make it legal. It already is.

However, some money-matches have certain modified match-rules and side-bets that would make variations. It could be made as a foul.

But if you see to pinoys playing money games here, they would use that kind of shot and you'll see that both would deem it legal.

BTW- this is on the Pro-level I'm talking about. Not just the bar bangers and amateurs.


@Gopi-1 - I thought you were pinoy, bro?

 

[gopi-1]

I haven't been playing that long. But I hope 25 years of pool playing will be enough to atleast define how we do it here. It's the first pool game I ever played/learned with my Dad.

It is an accepted rule here. CB-rail/s-OB is considered legal here by normal standards anywhere in the Philippines. If the aforementioned is accomplished, there is no need for another rail contact to make it legal. It already is.

However, some money-matches have certain modified match-rules and side-bets that would make variations. It could be made as a foul.

But if you see to pinoys playing money games here, they would use that kind of shot and you'll see that both would deem it legal.

BTW- this is on the Pro-level I'm talking about. Not just the bar bangers and amateurs.


@Gopi-1 - I thought you were pinoy, bro?

Yupp! I used to hang out at Lucky 13 or Sunrise every single day before I
migrated 4 and a half years ago. Even the "tama bola" that I know doesn't
use this type of ruling, specially at money games to avoid controversies.

 

[Vinnie]

In my dreams

The perfect championship match...

7 sets (alternate breaks)

1. 10-ball race to 5
2. 14.1 continuous game to 125
3. 1 pocket race to 3
4. 9-ball race to 5
5. bank pool race to 3
6. 8-ball race to 5
7. rotation race to 3

4 out of 7 sets wins the match.

Vinnie

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

@Gopi-1

Really?!? I used to go there all the time before as well! Even as a little kid. (now I'm a 34 yr old kid and married!) Lucky-13 has been renovated, smaller now than it was then. But still has a lot of action everyday, day and night. And Sunrise has been closed down for about 3 years now.

But a "rail after contact" rule (just like in international 9-ball) in local rotation isn't a common thing here. And that much I can say with conviction. I've backed up or put on bets on all levels of players here from our pros to the "tama-bolas" (amateurs) and all of them follow the very same rule I've posted. I think you've been gone too long bro.

Come back and we'll play some. I'm sure know how the action is here. Don't you miss it? Hehehe

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Yupp! I used to hang out at Lucky 13 or Sunrise every single day before I
migrated 4 and a half years ago. Even the "tama bola" that I know doesn't
use this type of ruling, specially at money games to avoid controversies.

exactly, in shortstop rules or moneygames, you really need to hit a rail or another OB for a legal hit. other than shortstop or moneygames, that rule is just fine. but the no rail hit, double hit are certainly fouls. atleast we can all agree on that .

 

[Darth-Pinoy]

No rail hit AND no ball pocketed is definitely foul.