What are "points"

manwon said:
Thanks again for your input, but please explain what your meaning of the CNC misconception is?

Thanks in advance

Craig
By only describing CNC inlaid points, and describing the V-groove points as "hand-made, by experienced craftsmen" there is the possibility of the continued misconception that:

a) CNC'd points are always inlaid points (they aren't)
b) flat-bottom points must be CNC'd (they're don't have to be)
c) CNC points are not "hand-made by experienced craftsmen" (they are, of course)

All of these are misconceptions and are so rampant among uneducated cue buyers that many will make thousand dollar decisions based on them.

As I've mentioned several times in the past:

  • there are cuemakers who use CNC equipment to make V-groove half-splice points. Mike Lambros, for one. He only makes long, sharp to infinity V-groove points. He mills those V-grooves with a CNC mill.
  • there are cuemakers who make flat-bottom inlay points that would never have a CNC touch their cue. Ray Schuler was one. Ray only used a pantograph for his inlaid points. The Schuler Cue company today uses a CNC lathe to taper their shafts. The Bella Sera cue company uses a CNC to make pantograph patterns. The CNC equipment doesn't touch their cues.
  • And for the vast majority of custom cuemakers, every cue is "hand-made by experienced craftsmen" regardless of what type of machinery they use, CNC or otherwise. I don't even know why the term "hand-made" is used as a qualifier by people. Nobody pushes wood in a door, and out comes a cue on the other end. Thomas Wayne, Jerry McWorter, J. Pechauer... all very experienced craftsmen.
.

Fred
 
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Good morning Hawkeye, I will try to answer your question.

Points are a part of the design factor built into cues. Some cues have points above the wrap area (were the cue is gripped) in the cues forearm.

Some cues have points have in the cues butt, which is the area below the cues wrap.

Some cues have points both above and below the cues wrap.

There are three basic types of point construction used to day.

1. Decal points: These points are nothing more than a sticker or decal that is applied to the cue before the finish is applied. This form of points are the cheapest and only found on the lowest of quality cues.

2. CNC inlayed points: These points are made using a Computer Generated and Operated Milling machine. These points are designed and implemented with a computer program.

This technique allows for very exacting standards that are exactly repeatable, which would be nearly impossible by hand.

This process is widely used today, and in most cases can be identified by the point design having rounded ends.

The points made using this technique are call inlayed points, because the points are inlayed into pockets in the cues forearm that were cut out by the computer driven milling machine.

3. Spliced / V-cut points: This technique accomplishes the same point design as CNC Inlay, however it is completed by hand, and by an experienced craftsman.

These techniques can be much more wasteful of materials, however this is the age old way points were applied as decorations to cues forearm or butt throughout the history of billiards / pool.

The technique can be identified in most cases by having razor sharp points, that may or may not be perfectly even due to the fact that they are cut and inlayed by hand. CNC inlayed points will always be perfectly even, because the points in the forearm are cut by a computer.

A cues points are the actual wood in the points design. The colored lines around these points are called Veneers and while they make-up the over all design they are actually an addition that is attached to the cues points as decoration.

In most cases V-cut or spliced points on a cue will cost more money than other types of construction depending on materials used during the construction process.

These points are the most time consuming to make, and this form of construction is truly an expression of the finest cue making skills available today.

Please do not be confused by the Asian import cues that are being imported today. These cues are also made with hand made points, but not to the standard or quality that I am outlining above.

The value of points in a cue is directly based on who made the points, the materials used in the points construction, and how finely executed the points are.

Finely executed points will have very tight veneers with no gaps or glue lines. They will also be almost, if not perfectly even, whether there are three, four, six or even eight points on the cue.

There will also be no gap where the point itself touches the first veneer, and where each veneer touches the veneer above it.

This is craftsmanship and for this type of work you are expected to pay a big price.

I hope I have cleared up some of your questions on this matter, I have been brief however, because of the time it would take to fully explain this topic.

You can however, find other reference material if you want more information concerning this subject by doing an on line search using the construction techniques I have outlined above.

Have a great day
Thanks for your answer. My question is does points make a better butt than one without points as far as how it will play?
 
Thanks for your answer. My question is does points make a better butt than one without points as far as how it will play?

No, I left six cues on my pool table for a week. Two full splice, two short splice, two without points. When I came back, they had all made the same number of balls and won the same number of games.

But seriously, I don't anyone would ever be able to tell me how a cue was made inn a blind test.
 
The thread necromancy is strong in this one...

In all seriousness, I always understood using points as a method to prevent cue warping over its life span.
 
The thread necromancy is strong in this one...

In all seriousness, I always understood using points as a method to prevent cue warping over its life span.

Points started as a way to combine two woods for weight, balance, decoration, etc.. Cutting the two pieces into points was an attractive method which allowed for much more glue surface in the days before modern glues.

It was a quick manufacturing process which reduces the bomber of steps and pieces.
 
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No, I left six cues on my pool table for a week. Two full splice, two short splice, two without points. When I came back, they had all made the same number of balls and won the same number of games.

But seriously, I don't anyone would ever be able to tell me how a cue was made inn a blind test.
Why do you get cues that can sound so different than each other? I like the hit of most Schon's, they have almost of a "plink" when you hit the cue ball, others can be almost silent, kind of like they have a marshmallow on them for a tip. Even 2 cues with the same tip can be drastically different.
 
Why do you get cues that can sound so different than each other? I like the hit of most Schon's, they have almost of a "plink" when you hit the cue ball, others can be almost silent, kind of like they have a marshmallow on them for a tip. Even 2 cues with the same tip can be drastically different.

There are tons of factors. Woods used, ring material, joint material, bumper material, etc..

There's even a good chance that where you are holding the cue affects the sound.
 
thats why they core cues...not the points
icbw
full splice could be different
IIRC Billy Stroud was one of the first to core on his forearms. Very common today. JOSS uses a full length joint-to-buttcap core. They stay straight forever.
 
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