What is a Shaft Taper?

cueball2010

cueball2010

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I am a little confused about Shaft taper.

What does Pro taper mean? It seems like it means different things depending on the brand.

On most shafts I have seen label "Pro Taper" the shaft starts at whatever the tip diameter is and gradually get larger in diameter over a designated length(Ex. First 14-16 inches).

Recently, I tried out the Triple 60 FG57 w/extra long 18" Pro Taper. It felt like that shaft held that exact 12.5mm tip diameter all throughout the first 18". Is there something called a Straight or Flat Taper? Are those taper descriptions a thing? Maybe I just made them up because they seem like a logical description for a type of taper.

Next: The Predator 314-3 is labeled as a "Pro Taper", and the Predator Vantage is labeled as a "ProV Taper" My understanding is that these are different tapers. The "ProV taper" feels like a cross between a "Pro Taper" and a "Conical Taper". My shop guy got really offended when I tried to say that the 314-3 had a different taper then the Vantage. He insisted that they have the same taper and throwing a "V" infront of the word "Pro" doesn't change anything.

Then: We have the Predator Revo's with a "Low Rise Pro Taper", which is labeled on both the 12.9 and 12.4mm versions. But in the hands the 12.9 feels like it has the same "Pro Taper" as the 314-3, and the 12.4 feels like it has the same "ProV Taper" as the Vantage. (Yes, I would think similar diameters would have similar tapers, which is not the case here).

Can someone please explain shaft tapers to me? and how these names relate to the actual turned angle of the shaft, or what they are suppose to mean? I feel like there are no industry standards.
 
IMHO straight tapers are the ferrule is diameter A and it runs straight back to the joint collar. If drawn out this would also be conical. A pro-taper is a distance from the tip back that maintains one diameter for "X" distance. I do not know if that X distance has a min and a max. I think any elaboration other than this is marketing. There are certain things you can adjust to playability. As I said in a pro taper, the shaft diameter, and the "X" back may effect the playability. You may want to experiment with shafts that have these variable and decide if there is a design that suits your hit and playability requirements. Just remember, a tip change, can adjust the hit as well.

JV
 
classiccues said:
IMHO straight tapers are the ferrule is diameter A and it runs straight back to the joint collar. If drawn out this would also be conical. A pro-taper is a distance from the tip back that maintains one diameter for "X" distance. I do not know if that X distance has a min and a max. I think any elaboration other than this is marketing. There are certain things you can adjust to playability. As I said in a pro taper, the shaft diameter, and the "X" back may effect the playability. You may want to experiment with shafts that have these variable and decide if there is a design that suits your hit and playability requirements. Just remember, a tip change, can adjust the hit as well.

JV
Click to expand...
I am not really concerned with "X" distance or length of taper, because the taper length is usually part of the spec. Your definition of "straight taper" makes sense. Could be conical but it is definitely not a "Low rise" or accelerated curve.

The Triple 60 FG57 is the first Pro Taper that I've ever seen that is exactly 12.5mm over the whole "X" taper distance. I would like to know what to call it because its the first time I've ever seen it on a production shaft without being turned down.
 
cueball2010 said:
I am a little confused about Shaft taper.

What does Pro taper mean? It seems like it means different things depending on the brand.

On most shafts I have seen label "Pro Taper" the shaft starts at whatever the tip diameter is and gradually get larger in diameter over a designated length(Ex. First 14-16 inches).

Recently, I tried out the Triple 60 FG57 w/extra long 18" Pro Taper. It felt like that shaft held that exact 12.5mm tip diameter all throughout the first 18". Is there something called a Straight or Flat Taper? Are those taper descriptions a thing? Maybe I just made them up because they seem like a logical description for a type of taper.

Next: The Predator 314-3 is labeled as a "Pro Taper", and the Predator Vantage is labeled as a "ProV Taper" My understanding is that these are different tapers. The "ProV taper" feels like a cross between a "Pro Taper" and a "Conical Taper". My shop guy got really offended when I tried to say that the 314-3 had a different taper then the Vantage. He insisted that they have the same taper and throwing a "V" infront of the word "Pro" doesn't change anything.

Then: We have the Predator Revo's with a "Low Rise Pro Taper", which is labeled on both the 12.9 and 12.4mm versions. But in the hands the 12.9 feels like it has the same "Pro Taper" as the 314-3, and the 12.4 feels like it has the same "ProV Taper" as the Vantage. (Yes, I would think similar diameters would have similar tapers, which is not the case here).

Can someone please explain shaft tapers to me? and how these names relate to the actual turned angle of the shaft, or what they are suppose to mean? I feel like there are no industry standards.
Click to expand...
There are literally infinitely taper possibilities. Now, that doesn't mean they're all reasonable because they're not. But a lot of the taper names are marketing and don't really mean a whole hell of a lot. Having said that, I'll tell you how I translate three of the most common types I've seen.

  • Pro/Straight Taper: The shaft is the same diameter as the ferrule for X number of inches back. Then it grows to the diameter of the joint.
  • Conical Taper: The shaft is a steady but extremely elongated cone shape from the ferrule back to the joint. Imagine stretching the tip of a sharpened pencil out for 25 inches or so and that's it.
  • Elliptical Taper: Similar to a conical taper but instead of making a straight line from the back of the ferrule to the fattest part of the shaft, it grows gradually as a long ellipse with a gentle curve like the picture below. I had a Paul Dayton cue and his standard shaft taper was elliptical. It was weird as hell at first, but once I got used to it I really liked it.

    1750516047622.png
I could be way off base with these. But I'm pretty sure I'm at least in the ballpark. And to make it even more confusing, tapers can be combined. So have fun with that.
 
cueball2010 said:
I am not really concerned with "X" distance or length of taper, because the taper length is usually part of the spec. Your definition of "straight taper" makes sense. Could be conical but it is definitely not a "Low rise" or accelerated curve.

The Triple 60 FG57 is the first Pro Taper that I've ever seen that is exactly 12.5mm over the whole "X" taper distance. I would like to know what to call it because its the first time I've ever seen it on a production shaft without being turned down.
Click to expand...
Any custom cuemaker could make a wood shaft anyway you asked. Now you are dealing with a CF shaft. Looking at the Viking website it appears that the shaft in question, goes conical after the 18" "Pro-Taper". You need to ask yourself do you think 18" is better than 12-14". IMHO if you are paying 600 PLUS for a shaft, you better know going in, what you like.
So yes, this is an 18" Pro-Taper shaft.

JV
 
Jimmy_Betmore said:
There are literally infinitely taper possibilities. Now, that doesn't mean they're all reasonable because they're not. But a lot of the taper names are marketing and don't really mean a whole hell of a lot. Having said that, I'll tell you how I translate three of the most common types I've seen.

  • Pro/Straight Taper: The shaft is the same diameter as the ferrule for X number of inches back. Then it grows to the diameter of the joint.
Click to expand...
I have also heard that for "straight" taper, not the conical thing, but conical also makes sense. I think that the term "straight taper" is not going to be understood well and should be avoided.

"Pro" taper to me means a slow taper, almost none, until about a foot from the tip.

I suspect that most cues are close to conical from the joint to about a foot from the tip.

Here's a video from a cuemaker -- just one example of the discussion -- who feels "straight" means cylindrical.

 
Bob Jewett said:
I have also heard that for "straight" taper, not the conical thing, but conical also makes sense. I think that the term "straight taper" is not going to be understood well and should be avoided.

"Pro" taper to me means a slow taper, almost none, until about a foot from the tip.

I suspect that most cues are close to conical from the joint to about a foot from the tip.

Here's a video from a cuemaker -- just one example of the discussion -- who feels "straight" means cylindrical.

Click to expand...
No offense Bob but you chose to use THE biggest lying/stealing douchebag fraud-artist as your source. This guy is a total scumbag, probably stole more $$ than the fkng JamesGang. Wouldn't believe this asswipe if he said the sky was blue.
 
As for a 'pro' taper i've had multiple builders tell me that all it means is that the shaft will grow 1mm in the length specified. So a 12" PT would grow 1mm one foot back from ferrule. Conical/straight a kinda self-explanatory. I think they suck, at least for pool, but to each his own.
 
I prefer the gradual taper. At least that's what I call it.

For example, on this new Joss that I have ordered. The tip is 12.5mm. The first five inches below the ferrule is 12.5. The next five inches is 12.6. The next five inches is 12.7. After that it really doesn't matter.

I don't like the long pro taper where it's 12.8 at the ferrule and the next 15-18 inches is also 12.8. Seems like that makes the shaft too whippy for me.

r/DCP
 
My take on shaft taper, since we would be talking about how a shaft is ordered from a cue maker, is that in paying good money to a known very capable cue maker, a shaft should be ordered with a taper most desired by the player. That means the player must be experienced enough to understand their personal needs and desires relative to wood shaft taper. Putting a definition on "type" on shaft taper - yes the "pro" taper is usually referred to a shaft with fixed shaft diameter from tip to a set distance towards the shaft joint.

If ordering a shaft to be built today, my own preference would be a consistent 12.75 MM from tip to 14 inches down the shaft. The rise in shaft diameter from that point to the end of shaft joint should also be part of the cue maker discussion- as final shaft total weight is equally important to me. The cue maker then has to look at the total weight desired for the cue itself , the type of cue butt joint desired ( metal, ivory, wood, other); to calculate where the cue will balance out and how the total player's request for the " feel" cue can be best achieved.

In my opinion, shaft taper, when commissioning a cue build, is not a stand alone request, it becomes a part of the mix in the overall feel of the cue and can affect other components of the cue build process.
 
To answer the question in the thread’s name: “What is a Shaft Taper?”…

It’s how the diameter of the shaft changes from tip to joint, especially nearer the tip, which varies and has different names.

pj
chgo
 
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