What is 'Playing pool by feel'?

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
Seems like this has been discussed little so I thought I'd pop up here with my thoughts on what it is. Sometimes if you take something to an extreme it helps clarify what it is. So lets take 'playing a shot by feel' to it's most extreme. What would that be? ....(waited about 3 second) and several of you would simultaneously say...'The Tom Cruise Shot'!

Anyone want to try to deny the fact that this is making a shot by feel? Yup, it was made by feel. But I wouldn't recommend trying it with a shot that has any difficulty to it at all. When doing this you feel the cue stick, with both hands, moving in the correct direction. (or close enough to correct)

So much for clearing that up. Now that we have determined that a pool shot can be made by feel lets get into how this effects the rest of your game when looking at the shot rather than getting cocky and looking your opponent straight in the eyes. (fun to do though, isn't it. LOL)


(insert A)
I had better clear this up right now. Other than the mention of the 'Tom Cruise Shot' I'm talking to and about people that look at the object ball when making the final stroke. If your looking at the cue ball, I don't have the beginnings of an idea how you could make a shot by feel. I even look at the object ball on jacked up shots and jump shots. So if you look at the cue ball on your final stroke you might want to ignore this entire post.


Anyone here ever thought just after pulling the trigger on a shot...Oh shit, I didn't stroke that one straight... and then watch the result expecting to miss and pleasantly surprised when the ball goes in the hole. I'll admit it, it has happened to me. The question that this brings up is, why did you make the ball. The obvious answer is that the shot was easy enough that it had a big enough margin for error. Your little stroke mistake wasn't bad enough to make you miss the shot. Is it only easy shots that this happens on? I don't think so. I think there is a second possible answer why you made the shot. Your feel for the shot noticed on the last stroke that you were not lined up correctly and made a correction for you. You made the shot by feel rather than missing it because of your incorrect line up. The reverse of this can happen also. Your feel for the shot could be wrong and alignment could be right. Then when the feel part of you makes that last second adjustment it could make you miss. Man, that sucks when that happens, doesn't it.

With this line of thinking one could say that every shot that anyone makes is done at least in part by feel. Since you can't see your back hand you are doing that part of your stoke by feel. That is unless you have three eyes. One to look at the object ball, one to look at your front hand and cue ball, and one protruding out of you 'adams apple' to look back at your back hand. Problem, we only have two eyes, and those two only seem to be able to focus on one thing at a time. So what you could say is we only have one line of sight. All this adds up to playing shots by feel is a product of hand eye coordination.

What is this hand eye coordination doing? I think one of two things. (maybe more but these are the two I'll talk about.)

1. It guides the cue stick concentrating on the end result so that it sends the cue ball to a particular spot on the table. (playing by feel)
or
2. It guides the cue stick concentrating on moving the cue stick straight back and straight forward to make the cue stick strike the cue ball in a certain spot. (playing by aim)

Again, both of these use feel. But the 'shooting by feel' that pool players are talking about on this forum is represented by number 1. (Incidentally, I used the 'Tom Cruise Shot' to get your attention in the beginning of the post, but I actually think this is more like #2)

Part 2: Yup, I am going to get around to aiming systems.

I'm going to start of by saying that I'm convinced that Hal's system works and works very well. I can't deny it cause there are just to many people using it. Fred's version of it even mentions the contact point so I really think it has merit. This next sentence should get a rise out of someone. I think Hal's system uses the contact point. Something has to be used to initially determine how to use his system or which part of his system to use on a certain shot. Something has to be used to determine what your dealing with on a certain shot. Otherwise you could miss the shot by six feet. If it is an angle, something has to be used to determine that angle. An angle has to have two lines to be determined. One of these lines would probably be the rail adjacent to the shot, another could be from the pocket to the object ball. Guess what is at the end of this line to the object ball being used to determine the angle. Yup, the contact point. I realize that saying Hal's system uses the contact point in this sense is a stretch, but it is there. Don't take this wrong. I'm not saying this to cut down Hal's system. I'm saying it to validate it.

From what I see the majority of professional pool players say they use feel to pocket balls (the type of feel I'm talking labeled #1 above). I've read that several use the ghost ball and some use the contact point. And yes there are a few that use Hal's system or something similar.

I've mentioned this before and it has been ignored so I'll mention it again. About these pros that use feel. I've watched most of them at one time or another on TV. Not once have I watched a match that I didn't see each participant shoot at least one difficult shot. When the have a difficult shot, they (all of them) walk around and look at the object ball from behind, looking at the line to the pocket. They are looking so they can be very accurate about where they want to send the cue ball, by feel. They are looking at where they want the cue ball to hit the object ball. Whether it is conscious or not doesn't matter. They have to have something to feel and it has something to do with where they want the cue ball to hit the object ball. A contact point. Depending on what they are trying to do with the cue ball, this may or may not be the same contact point that is referred to when someone is talking about using a contact point system. None the less it is a contact point. Again, when using feel, you have to feel something. That something has something to do with where you want the cue ball to go and thus where you want the cue ball to contact the object ball. A contact point. Even if it doesn't, one thing for sure is that it doesn't have anything to do with 1/4 or 1/8 of a ball.

That said, amongst the pros there are feel players that I think use a contact point (or maybe they don't, they definitely don't use an approximation), there are Ghost ball players that are using the ghost ball to hit a contact point. Feel and contact point players out weigh other system players by a vast majority. Remember, I'm talking about pros now. I basing this on what pros have said and what I've seen them do.

Since the vast majority of pros use feel or contact point, I would say that these are the best ways to pocket balls. If you are dealing with a league player that just needs something to help him get a little better at pocketing balls a system like Hal's would be great. If you dealing with an young new player that has a lot of talent or an up and coming player that has a real chance of becoming something in the pool would, it would be better serving them something that will lead to playing by feel and some kind of contact point system will do this more readily.


Prolog:
I've used a lot of common sense in the above paragraphs. I welcome responses with common sense or reasoning. If your going to just say, JR's is wrong because you think so or because you think I don't know enough to state this, I'll just ignore it. If you use foul language, I won't respond regardless of what you say.
 
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CaptainJR said:
Anyone want to try to deny the fact that this is making a shot by feel?
No denial

So if you look at the cue ball on your final stroke you might want to ignore this entire post.
I have found myself looking at the cue ball last, when doing the Contact and Pivot method. In fact, when I show people, I purposefully have them look at the cueball last so that they're not fidgeting.



With this line of thinking one could say that every shot that anyone makes is done at least in part by feel.
There is no argument here. I think you've done that reverse thing here as well. I think we're arguing that everyone uses a system in addition to their intuitiveness. In fact, intuitiveness must have been formed from something more concrete. More than likelly, some kind of system. Call it ghost ball, double the distance, point on the felt, point in space, filling the tubes, etc.

You seem to be arguing the same thing, from the opposite side: that everyone shoots in part by feel (intuition). But THAT's what DM has been saying as well. But he's been saying "everyone shoots in part with a system." It's the definition of feel and what seemed blatant as "feel and feel alone" sentiments that's been the argument. Both Colin and Jude have obviously rephrased such that it is more clear what they mean. I hope we've rephrased so that we're more clear.


I'm going to start of by saying that I'm convinced that Hal's system works and works very well. I can't deny it cause there are just to many people using it. Fred's version of it even mentions the contact point so I really think it has merit. This next sentence should get a rise out of someone. I think Hal's system uses the contact point. Something has to be used to initially determine how to use his system or which part of his system to use on a certain shot. Something has to be used to determine what your dealing with on a certain shot. Otherwise you could miss the shot by six feet. If it is an angle, something has to be used to determine that angle.
RISE!!! LOL!!
I see what you're saying, but most of Hal's systems do not use contact points. Never mentions them, never looks at them. My Contact and Pivot, Hal has used, but it isn't at the forefront of his methods. The methods he mostly teaches are specifically "no contact points."

Then how does he determine which part to use? Well, since most of his systems are only two or three aim points, then I guess it ends up being pretty obvious. Narrow cuts you aim here. Sharper cuts you aim there. He tries to break it down to the simplest elements. Whether people believe in the systems is obviously the other debate which we've trashed over enough.

Fred
 
You develop feel in everything you do. If you play golf and your normal swing hits a 9 iron 150 yards. The distance to the pin is 144 and there is a slope you need to attack. It is the feel that you have WHEN executing this shot with the 9 iron that makes you feel comfortable and trusting that everything works. This includes your aiming system, alignment, .. all work well together.

It is the feel that allows you to execute the shot in pool with the expectations desired. It is the feel that gets your cue ball three rails were you expect it or through interfering balls on the table without disturbing them, or just drawing the cueball 5". Feel and aiming are separate.

Aim is absolute, systematic and required ( at least should be), and feel is a variable. To rely on feel is dangerous. Good aim, alignment, stroke,.. with good feel is ideal.
 
I feel like going to Subway. Therefore I am. I think I'll get a Southwest Steak and Cheese. :D
 
In my mind, playing by "feel" is something that everyone ends up doing, BUT, my thoughts on playing by feel might be a little different. I believe that your subconcious mind remembers EVERYTHING you've ever done, EVERY shot you've ever made, every shot you've ever missed. So, what does that have to do with playing by feel.

Well, regardless of how you learn to pocket balls, whether it's CP, one of Hal's many systems, Equal Distance, Overlap, or any number of the hundreds of other systems, every shot you make with those systems, even if it's just trial and error, becomes engraved in your subconcious memory banks. Eventually, when you come to a shot, you just KNOW how to shoot that shot... you know it because you've practiced it so many times that you're subconcious mind just knows it. That, in my opinion, is playing by feel. We all do it when we reach a certain level. I practice using a particular system... at the times when I'm practicing, my brain is in a different mode than it is when I'm playing. I'm in an analytical mode during practice. My left brain is doing all of the work, but it's storing things in my right brain while it's doing that. So, when I get on the table, my right brain can take over and play the game...

When I'm getting down on a shot, I don't think "Ok, this one is quarter to edge and I have to hit it with one tip inside to get the CB to point X." I have shot that shot so many times, that my subconcious mind remembers it, and it's programmed to shoot it just like it needs to be shot.

So, to me, playing by "feel" is having practiced something in a structured manner so much, that I can get on a table and perform it without concious thought of HOW to do it.

It's like an instructor told me once. When you first learn to drive, you think about pushing in the clutch, shifting into gear, pressing on the gas pedal, then slowly releasing the clutch and repeating the process until you're in high gear and cruising down the highway. You kill the car a lot, bark the tires, shake your passengers brains out, etc. for a long time, until you learn it so well that you just DO IT! That's the same way with pool, IMO. You have to practice the process until it becomes second nature, or automatic... THEN you ARE playing on a subconsious level, or what many call "playing by feel".

JMO,
Bob
 
Cane said:
In my mind, playing by "feel" is something that everyone ends up doing, BUT, my thoughts on playing by feel might be a little different. I believe that your subconcious mind remembers EVERYTHING you've ever done, EVERY shot you've ever made, every shot you've ever missed. So, what does that have to do with playing by feel.

Well, regardless of how you learn to pocket balls, whether it's CP, one of Hal's many systems, Equal Distance, Overlap, or any number of the hundreds of other systems, every shot you make with those systems, even if it's just trial and error, becomes engraved in your subconcious memory banks. Eventually, when you come to a shot, you just KNOW how to shoot that shot... you know it because you've practiced it so many times that you're subconcious mind just knows it. That, in my opinion, is playing by feel. We all do it when we reach a certain level. I practice using a particular system... at the times when I'm practicing, my brain is in a different mode than it is when I'm playing. I'm in an analytical mode during practice. My left brain is doing all of the work, but it's storing things in my right brain while it's doing that. So, when I get on the table, my right brain can take over and play the game...

When I'm getting down on a shot, I don't think "Ok, this one is quarter to edge and I have to hit it with one tip inside to get the CB to point X." I have shot that shot so many times, that my subconcious mind remembers it, and it's programmed to shoot it just like it needs to be shot.

So, to me, playing by "feel" is having practiced something in a structured manner so much, that I can get on a table and perform it without concious thought of HOW to do it.

It's like an instructor told me once. When you first learn to drive, you think about pushing in the clutch, shifting into gear, pressing on the gas pedal, then slowly releasing the clutch and repeating the process until you're in high gear and cruising down the highway. You kill the car a lot, bark the tires, shake your passengers brains out, etc. for a long time, until you learn it so well that you just DO IT! That's the same way with pool, IMO. You have to practice the process until it becomes second nature, or automatic... THEN you ARE playing on a subconsious level, or what many call "playing by feel".

JMO,
Bob


Very good points. You have trained your mind and it just excepts those things you have taught it. If the brakes fail, you then reach into your mind systematically to determine what to do because one system just failed you.

I think the biggest reason players are interested in systems used is that they want to know how to correctly train their minds. Many players do not want to go through time spent developing their own for two reasons; 1. It takes too long and 2. What if it is a bad system that will later become a handicap to their game.

So, they in turn want to understand what system many of the pro's have developed into "second nature". The problem becomes, how do the pro's now communicate their system when this is now just part of a process that automatically occurs. One way is to create a failure, or to catch themselves when they are off and to evaluate their corrections.
 
Playing Pool By Feel Is...........

Capt. - Playing Pool By Feel Is when you are showing a real good looking woman how to shoot pool. You wrap your left arm over her left arm and your right arm is free to - "Play Pool By Feel"!

TY & GL
 
I personally believe playing by feel compared to a system is the difference in a pro vs. a amateur.A pro has the feel instinctively.It is somthing that cannot be taught.You either have it or you dont.I know there are some days when I feel I cant miss.Then there are most days when I cant pocket more then 4 balls in a row.I know what shots to make but for I guess it is my concentration,The balls just seem to miss by a 1/4 of an inch on almost every shot.When this happens I stop playing and go do somthing else instead of getting frustrated.
JMHO : :confused:
 
I know this is going to sound strange...and probably going to make me sound better than I am...but I sometimes bank by "feel". I can't explain why I put certain english on certain banks or why I hit them the way I do...but I can almost "feel" the correct way to hit them to make them "go" down. I have had this ability since I picked up a cue at age 13 on my first bar box. And if I can keep a playing cue long enough....HA HA....I can really start to feel other shots as well.

I think a person gets to a certain point in the learning of pool to where they can just step up and make the dang ball...period. They don't have to do all this point and contact crap...they just make the BALL. They see it...they know it...then they do it.

Don't blame me...I am just the messenger!
Shorty
 
Here is the deal....Developing "feel" or "touch" is very important in this game...No, you not born with it, it's not a matter of you have it or you don't....You absolutly develope it...

Example: Put your cue down for a about 5 years. When you pick it up to play again, the cue will feel ackward...after you start playing a while it will become more of an extension of your body.....(part of you so to speak) You will gain "feel" or "touch"

The way you "develope" the feel is up to you, but (I think) that if you have a "fundamental" approach to getting "aligned" and "aimed" correctly you will develope that feel much faster...

Players (like Earl / Mark etc) that excell at the game have put in MANY MANY more hours of work to develope that feel....Some people are "Born lucky" in that their initial approach to "set up and aim" puts them naturally in a fundamentally solid position.....They may even realize that this is the case, and probably feel it is the same for the rest of the population...It's not....Most of us have to "search" for the best way for our particular make up.

Pro's may say they play purely by feel...and at thier level they probably do...I still think that it's only because all of the "fundamentals" are so engrained its like walking...they just don't think about it......(I also think that it is a EASY answer to give to someone so they either don't have to explain what they do, or they really don't want to give the information up in the first place)

EXAMPLE: I see Earl looking at his grip for "exact" placement on the cue....He may or may not even realize he does this...It's kind of like a "tell" at poker....

EXAMPLE: Mark has stated that he "experimented" with different grips.

Why would grip matter if they were purely "feel" players?????

BOTTOM LINE ANSWER: Just like EVERY OTHER SPORT ......Strive to "PLAY" by feel as much as you can.....but PRACTICE your "fundamentals"
 
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BRKNRUN said:
Here is the deal....Developing "feel" or "touch" is very important in this game...No, you not born with it, it's not a matter of you have it or you don't....You absolutly develope it...

Example: Put your cue down for a about 5 years. When you pick it up to play again, the cue will feel ackward...after you start playing a while it will become more of an extension of your body.....(part of you so to speak) You will gain "feel" or "touch"

The way you "develope" the feel is up to you, but (I think) that if you have a "fundamental" approach to getting "aligned" and "aimed" correctly you will develope that feel much faster...

Players (like Earl / Mark etc) that excell at the game have put in MANY MANY more hours of work to develope that feel....Some people are "Born lucky" in that their initial approach to "set up and aim" puts them naturally in a fundamentally solid position.....They may even realize that this is the case, and probably feel it is the same for the rest of the population...It's not....Most of us have to "search" for the best way for our particular make up.

Pro's may say they play purely by feel...and at thier level they probably do...I still think that it's only because all of the "fundamentals" are so engrained its like walking...they just don't think about it......(I also think that it is a EASY answer to give to someone so they either don't have to explain what they do, or they really don't want to give the information up in the first place)

EXAMPLE: I see Earl looking at his grip for "exact" placement on the cue....He may or may not even realize he does this...It's kind of like a "tell" at poker....

EXAMPLE: Mark has stated that he "experimented" with different grips.

Why would grip matter if they were purely "feel" players?????

BOTTOM LINE ANSWER: Just like EVERY OTHER SPORT ......Strive to "PLAY" by feel as much as you can.....but PRACTICE your "fundamentals"
I agree 100% with your last sentence, and I think the problem is that a lot of people just don't agree on what it means to play by "feel." To me, it doesn't mean that you just play, with no instruction or effort to learn proper fundamentals. I don't honestly think anyone here has ever advocated that type of approach. Developing proper fundamentals is essential to becoming a good player. Grip matters to a "feel" player just as much as it does to any other player. So does a proper stance, a good stroke, and so on. The difference is, I think, that "feel" players are more willing to trust their instincts when they play. I've played quite a bit of pool in my life. And if my instincts tell me to aim at a certain point on the ob, I'm most likely going to trust them, because it's probably exactly where I need to aim. After all, those instincts are rooted in all of my past playing experience. The "feel" part of my shot is when I listen to that part of my subconsious that tells me where to hit the ob in order to make it. I really believe that the vast majority of the time your body knows where you need to aim if you are willing to trust it.
 
A lot of good responses here. The main thing I see is something that I meant to emphasize more. For example in the paragraph where I talked about your feel for the shot making a correction for you. I sort of left it in the read between the lines part that before this can happen you have to have shot that shot hundreds of times.

Thank you for the replies.
 
To me ...

Playing by 'feel' is where you use your natural instincts
for playing, and maybe supported by your brain. Being
a 'logic' player means using your brain in playing as a
first priority, and maybe supported by your instincts.

Two examples that I can think of:

Plays by instinct first: Rodney Morris
Plays by logic: Dick Lane (Texas)
 
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