What is Your Ideal Cue Tip Height

[The Renfro]

To me some new layered tips have bounce to them. The old Mori Mediums used to keep this property until there was only a quarter of the tip left. After they changed whatever they changed they don't have much bounce in them even when they are new. The closest thing to the old mori as far as bounce is concerned to me would be the Kamui SS. They tend to be springy and lively for a little over a 3rd of their lives. With that said I have them leave the SS long and play it down until a little less the 2/3rds of original size and then I am yanking that sucker off and putting a new one on.

I know this sounds strange but I have seen stranger. Buste came to Blackburn with a tip that looked to be a cpl of weeks old and had Joe replace it because he wasn't getting the english he was used to. Joe put a new tip on for him and off he went... Less than 20 minutes and he was back getting another one put on and off he went again...

My understanding is that some pros have a certain tip and install height they have decided works best for them. They replace tips as soon as the new wears off so they never have togo from a worn out tip to a new tip and have to go thru any adjustment process like we are all familiar with from being young and wearing a tip down until someone made us change it or it split our ferule.

 

[OUSooner]

Dittos for me.

I like it full size, when it gets to 2/3 to 1/2, I replace it.
It seems to go dead, I like a 'lively' tip.

Hard to explain, but it seems I need more english on an older compacted tip to receive the same results on of a new tip.

 

[Jason Koopman]

I don't know the exact hight, but I normally don't care for a tall tip as I think it loses some of the feel for me.

 

[lfigueroa]

I like it full size, when it gets to 2/3 to 1/2, I replace it.
It seems to go dead, I like a 'lively' tip.

Hard to explain, but it seems I need more english on an older compacted tip to receive the same results on of a new tip.

No, I understand the lively part. This is sort of what I was getting at with the question and wondering if a taller tip, because of deformation on contact, might actually stay on the ball a bit longer.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I use unlayered tips. Even them I cut a third off when replacing. I've tried a few of the layered tips and find I foul often hitting the CB with my practice strokes. Johnnyt

You must be one of those guys that can get the cue tip right up to the OB. I've never been able to get it as close as some guys. There's one guy I play every few weeks who can do this,, but at least once a session he fouls

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I do find a difference in performance, however slight it may be. I find the tip plays a tad harder when it gets down too close to the ferrule. The Triangle tips that I prefer are a medium/hard tip to start with. I just don't want one to be totally hard. I think the glue soaks a bit upward into the tip (keeping in mind there are no layers with glue between each layer) that cause the feeling of added hardness. The close proximity to the ferrule itself could (and probably does) cause additional hardness. I kinda like a semi-mushy feel to the tip when I contact the cue ball. I also do not like a stiff-hitting cue. Just a personal preference. FWIW, I do my own tip replacing and buy tips in boxes of 50, so it's no problem nor high-cost to keep the end of my cue the way I am comfortable with. Here's a funny thing: I like the Samsara tips I have on my J/B cues to be a long as possible too, although it's common knowledge/lore (one that I believe in to an extent) that a thinner tip creates a harder surface which would be better suited to breaking and jumping. Go figure!

Maniac

I never thought of the glue issue before. I wonder if this is possible... or maybe the glue itself (super glue?) adds a hard brittle layer that contributes to the hard feeling?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

i use Triangles and start them off a 3/32" on the side wall with a dime radius or a little flatter but not nickel radius thats too flat, that way they dont mushroom(or if they do it aint bad) and they seem to bite the CB just rite for me, I wear them down to nothing if the tip is real good. I dont like big tall tips that act like shock absorbers. So after many experiments with tip starting heights I have ended up at 3/32", and yes I do use more tips because of the fact I'm starting with less tip-but its worth it. They just play better for me at that starting height,

I think a lot of players are in your camp, preferring the lower tip, and I've wondered if that is because the tip action becomes more predictable. Dan't really know though.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I play with a Hercules layered tip. I touch up the shape with sandpaper to start out, and just use a Tippik on it afterwards, and it stays good. Tips usually last me 3.5 to 5 years.

A tip is usually best for me when it is 2-4 months old.

These players that have to grind on their tips all the time have an obsessive compulsive disorder.

Holy cow, 3-5 years?!

But I do agree with you about the guys that are always shredding their tips, my favorite being the ones that put one of those glass encrusted shapers on the floor, turn their cue upside down and try and make fire. Love playing them guys with a tip that looks like chicken salad

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I have always used a medium to medium soft layered tip (Moori, Kamui) and shaved off about 1/3 of the tip before installing...
I like the chalk retention qualities of a medium-soft to soft tip but when they are brand new and thick the hit seems to spongy. With that little bit shaved off the tip plays more like a medium to medium-hard tip (more shaft feedback) while maintaining the chalk retention. It just fits the "feel" I prefer when playing and allows me to get a little more english when needed, IMO...

I do change them out when they are about 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch from the ferrule... I go through about 3 tips/year because of this OCD habit but I can definately tell a difference...

3 tips a year -- is that because you play 10 hours a day, or are you roughing up the tips a lot, or something else?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

For me the thickness of 3 quarters.

er, like that would be a new tip?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

To me some new layered tips have bounce to them. The old Mori Mediums used to keep this property until there was only a quarter of the tip left. After they changed whatever they changed they don't have much bounce in them even when they are new. The closest thing to the old mori as far as bounce is concerned to me would be the Kamui SS. They tend to be springy and lively for a little over a 3rd of their lives. With that said I have them leave the SS long and play it down until a little less the 2/3rds of original size and then I am yanking that sucker off and putting a new one on.

I know this sounds strange but I have seen stranger. Buste came to Blackburn with a tip that looked to be a cpl of weeks old and had Joe replace it because he wasn't getting the english he was used to. Joe put a new tip on for him and off he went... Less than 20 minutes and he was back getting another one put on and off he went again...

My understanding is that some pros have a certain tip and install height they have decided works best for them. They replace tips as soon as the new wears off so they never have togo from a worn out tip to a new tip and have to go thru any adjustment process like we are all familiar with from being young and wearing a tip down until someone made us change it or it split our ferule.

There seems to be a recurring theme here about a players preferring the spongier feeling... I wondering if this is actually a good thing though.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Dittos for me.

But is it a good thing?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I don't know the exact hight, but I normally don't care for a tall tip as I think it loses some of the feel for me.

This is kind of where I am. I'm thinking that while the taller tips may be spongier and livelier, the shorter tip may make spin more predictable and provide you with more feel...

Lou Figueroa

 

[phread59]

Lou let me preface this post. I also fly radio control airplanes. I build my own from plans or kits, not pre-made. I use a lot of cyano (super) glues. I know a bit about them.

First off cyano's make a mechanical bond, not a chemical bond. They actually wick into the small cracks and crevices of the 2 surfaces to be bonded. CA will wick into the tip to some extent. The viscosity of the CA and it's cure time will determine how deep it will wick.

Ca's do have a shelf life. After opening they will go flat fairly quickly. Ca's kick (harden, setup) by using moisture (water) or certain alkali chemicals. This is one reason you have a hard time gluing plasics and some other materials. Not enough small cracks to work into. Normal heat/cold cycles will draw moisture into even a closed container due to aspiration. To prolong the shelf life keep both open and closed bottles in a zip lock bag burped of air in the freezer. Freezing the CA will greatly extend the shelf life.

CA's vary greatly in their chemical makeups. The purity of the glue is very important. The cheapo stuff you get at Wally World won't work as well as a quality glue. Quality CA's have a longer shelf life and flat out perform better. I have done things to an RC airplane made of flimsy Balsa wood that would tear an F-15 apart. I have used CA quite often. Never had a joint fail with CA.

Good brands are Satellite City Hot stuff, Zap, Mercury,Jet and Bob Smith. These I have used and can attest to. Zap being the best and Jet the worst. All will do a great job. Zap is consistantly great. I used the Mercury once and it worked very well. But take it with a grain of salt. I only used it once. The others many, many times. Also you will see bottles of CA with a manufacuer's name on them. Such as the glue Tiger sells. They will have blue, purple, gold and another colour label, I can't recall the last colour right now. The colours relate to thier viscosity and cure time. Blue being thin and the purple being medium, gold being foam safe and the thick I think is an off blue/purpleish colour. The labels all look the same exept for the printing. Use that glue with confidence. It is Bob Smith CA. Bob makes the second best stuff out there. Second only to Zap (IMHO and backed up by tens of thousands of RC enthusiast's). He is the only major manufactuer who will sell to smaller companies and custom label. This way anybody can get personalized glue bottles of quality glue at an affordable price. There is no difference in quality between his and private label glue.

A few words of caution. CA is a respritory irratant. Asthmatics should use with caution ( go ahead and aske ME how I know). Use in a very well ventellated room. Avoid inhaling the fumes. Avoid long exposure to the fumes. Be very aware that CA will bond skin (and lips) instantly together (think pin in CA bottle in one hand, parts to be glued positioned in the other hand. Add some 3 stooges and you get for real hot lips. I know:grin-square:.). When you're eyes begin to water you are at the threshold of being dangerous. At this point cease using for 24 hours. This is learned from years of use and abuse.

After all this nonsense. I will say that CA will harden up a tip at the base. How much I cannot say for sure. But I'm willing to bet it is only a 32 or less. I am sure it will fuse the tip base solid. That may have something to do with it Lou. But I am not a rocket scientist. But judging on what CA does to wood a 32nd or so is a good bet. YMMV!!!!!!! This only pertains to super type glues. Other glues I have no knowledge of.

Respectfully
Mark Shuman

 

[peteypooldude]

This is kind of where I am. I'm thinking that while the taller tips may be spongier and livelier, the shorter tip may make spin more predictable and provide you with more feel...

Lou Figueroa

This is my feeling also

 

[Koop]

This is my feeling also

Ditto, I play with a soft tip, Blue Diamond, but don't really like it until it's compressed a little. I'll break with it and shoot power shots for a little while until is compresses and mushrooms.
Then shape it and it's good to go for probably 6 to 9 months.
By the time it's where I like it, it is about half it's original height.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou let me preface this post. I also fly radio control airplanes. I build my own from plans or kits, not pre-made. I use a lot of cyano (super) glues. I know a bit about them.

First off cyano's make a mechanical bond, not a chemical bond. They actually wick into the small cracks and crevices of the 2 surfaces to be bonded. CA will wick into the tip to some extent. The viscosity of the CA and it's cure time will determine how deep it will wick.

Ca's do have a shelf life. After opening they will go flat fairly quickly. Ca's kick (harden, setup) by using moisture (water) or certain alkali chemicals. This is one reason you have a hard time gluing plasics and some other materials. Not enough small cracks to work into. Normal heat/cold cycles will draw moisture into even a closed container due to aspiration. To prolong the shelf life keep both open and closed bottles in a zip lock bag burped of air in the freezer. Freezing the CA will greatly extend the shelf life.

CA's vary greatly in their chemical makeups. The purity of the glue is very important. The cheapo stuff you get at Wally World won't work as well as a quality glue. Quality CA's have a longer shelf life and flat out perform better. I have done things to an RC airplane made of flimsy Balsa wood that would tear an F-15 apart. I have used CA quite often. Never had a joint fail with CA.

Good brands are Satellite City Hot stuff, Zap, Mercury,Jet and Bob Smith. These I have used and can attest to. Zap being the best and Jet the worst. All will do a great job. Zap is consistantly great. I used the Mercury once and it worked very well. But take it with a grain of salt. I only used it once. The others many, many times. Also you will see bottles of CA with a manufacuer's name on them. Such as the glue Tiger sells. They will have blue, purple, gold and another colour label, I can't recall the last colour right now. The colours relate to thier viscosity and cure time. Blue being thin and the purple being medium, gold being foam safe and the thick I think is an off blue/purpleish colour. The labels all look the same exept for the printing. Use that glue with confidence. It is Bob Smith CA. Bob makes the second best stuff out there. Second only to Zap (IMHO and backed up by tens of thousands of RC enthusiast's). He is the only major manufactuer who will sell to smaller companies and custom label. This way anybody can get personalized glue bottles of quality glue at an affordable price. There is no difference in quality between his and private label glue.

A few words of caution. CA is a respritory irratant. Asthmatics should use with caution ( go ahead and aske ME how I know). Use in a very well ventellated room. Avoid inhaling the fumes. Avoid long exposure to the fumes. Be very aware that CA will bond skin (and lips) instantly together (think pin in CA bottle in one hand, parts to be glued positioned in the other hand. Add some 3 stooges and you get for real hot lips. I know:grin-square:.). When you're eyes begin to water you are at the threshold of being dangerous. At this point cease using for 24 hours. This is learned from years of use and abuse.

After all this nonsense. I will say that CA will harden up a tip at the base. How much I cannot say for sure. But I'm willing to bet it is only a 32 or less. I am sure it will fuse the tip base solid. That may have something to do with it Lou. But I am not a rocket scientist. But judging on what CA does to wood a 32nd or so is a good bet. YMMV!!!!!!! This only pertains to super type glues. Other glues I have no knowledge of.

Respectfully
Mark Shuman

Radio planes -- woo wee. I had my own short but infamous experience building and flying them up in Montana one year. It's a funny story but I don't have time to write it up right now.

Anywhos, great info about CA glues! Also, good point about the glue soaking in, I'd never really thought about that. Thanks again.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Ditto, I play with a soft tip, Blue Diamond, but don't really like it until it's compressed a little. I'll break with it and shoot power shots for a little while until is compresses and mushrooms.
Then shape it and it's good to go for probably 6 to 9 months.
By the time it's where I like it, it is about half it's original height.

But don't you find that the Blue Diamond keeps mushrooming over it's entire life span?

Lou Figueroa

 

[elvicash]

I used to play with Champions I liked them alot. I have used layered tips the last few years Mooris, Everest Hercules I havew a cue a Kamuis Black SS I do not like that tip but others seem to like the SS.

As to height I like a shorter tip height

 

[Fatboy]

No, I understand the lively part. This is sort of what I was getting at with the question and wondering if a taller tip, because of deformation on contact, might actually stay on the ball a bit longer.

Lou Figueroa

yes you will get more contact time with more tip, which is a good thing. But it also makes the hit feel dead because the tip acts as a shock absorber(I dont like that feel). Tony Schinnela (Black Boar) and I have had long discussions on this topic. He did the talking I'm the messenger.