What is your ruling?

[selftaut]

It's a foul and the cue ball remains in hand for his opponent. I'd have to check the new proposed WSR, but they might have an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for that move.

In any case, you have to shoot the cue ball over the line when you have ball in hand. If you take a shot that does not do that, it will remain in hand for your opponent..

OK Bob, what you are saying here is not the same as what I said? The cb remains with the shooter until it crosses the headstring? obviously if he gets to 3 consecutive fouls on that move then it creates another situation all together.

 

[WesleyW]

OK Bob, what you are saying here is not the same as what I said? The cb remains with the shooter until it crosses the headstring? obviously if he gets to 3 consecutive fouls on that move then it creates another situation all together.

I think Bob is saying: Player 1 committed a scratch. Player 2 place the ball in the corner behind the kitchen and makes a foul. Player 1 get the ball in hand behind the kitchen.

 

[selftaut]

I think Bob is saying: Player 1 committed a scratch. Player 2 place the ball in the corner behind the kitchen and makes a foul. Player 1 get the ball in hand behind the kitchen.

Hi Wesley, yes I see it could be interpreted that way now., and thats probably what he is saying.

Refering to the BCA rulebook I am looking at it states under general rules :

#6. When the cue ball is in hand behind the string , it remains in hand (not in play) until the player drives the cue ball out of the kitchen by striking it with his cue tip, OR in the referees judgement touches it with any part of the cue in an obvious attempt to perform a shot. The cue ball may be adjusted by the players hand, cue ,etc,,so long as it remains in hand. Once the cue ball is in play per above, it may not be impeded in any way by the player, to do so is to commit a foul.

So I guess I could be just not reading into it far enough, I interpreted this rule that the player is still shooting until he gets the cb out of the kitchen and in play., but fouled with his tip by touching the cb , as it was obvious he was NOT performing a attempted shot so the second part of the rule did not apply.

Oh well.

 

[WesleyW]

Hi Wesley, yes I see it could be interpreted that way now., and thats probably what he is saying.

Refering to the BCA rulebook I am looking at it states under general rules :

#6. When the cue ball is in hand behind the string , it remains in hand (not in play) until the player drives the cue ball out of the kitchen by striking it with his cue tip, OR in the referees judgement touches it with any part of the cue in an obvious attempt to perform a shot. The cue ball may be adjusted by the players hand, cue ,etc,,so long as it remains in hand. Once the cue ball is in play per above, it may not be impeded in any way by the player, to do so is to commit a foul.

So I guess I could be just not reading into it far enough, I interpreted this rule that the player is still shooting until he gets the cb out of the kitchen and in play., but fouled with his tip by touching the cb , as it was obvious he was NOT performing a attempted shot so the second part of the rule did not apply.

Oh well.

The funniest part of the question is, two weeks ago a friend of mine was telling me the same story. Himself is a referee. Someone did the same trick in a tournament, so they asked him what the ruling is. He thought it's ball in hand for the opponent, but he wasn't sure. So he asked some other referees. All the other referees are saying, it's a foul, the opponent have to shoot, but no ball in hand. They are saying that there is no such a rule that the opponent will get ball in hand (what Bob mention). After the scratch, the shooter should shoot the CB from the kitchen, but he makes a foul. The next shot will be a totally new shot, the CB is in game, the opponent should take the shot from the point where the CB is left behind (no ball in hand).

I'm new with this kind of game, so I don't know. He was just telling me this story.

 

[dave sutton]

player a was on 2 fouls already. he froze the cb to taake 3 consecd fouls. by freezing the cb it almost forces player b to also commit 3 fouls and/or kick leaving a wide open shot

legal and smart i think.

a foul is a foul is a foul

you cant stop a player from committing a foul.

ill ask jose garcia and allen hopkins next time i see them

 

[selftaut]

wow some of you guys cant read. lol

player a was on 2 fouls already. he froze the cb to taake 3 consecd fouls. by freezing the cb it almost forces player b to also commit 3 fouls and/or kick leaving a wide open shot

legal and smart i think.

a foul is a foul is a foul

you cant stop a player from committing a foul.

ill ask jose garcia and allen hopkins next time i see them

Dave, all kinds of perspectives came up on this one for sure. But you read it wrong, player A was not on 2 fouls, player B was on 2 fouls. The question is does player A have this option or does he have to cross the headstring with the cb before he leaves the table.

 

[dave sutton]

Dave, all kinds of perspectives came up on this one for sure. But you read it wrong, player A was not on 2 fouls, player B was on 2 fouls. The question is does player A have this option or does he have to cross the headstring with the cb before he leaves the table.

LOL. I SEE NOW. WORDING WAS A LITTLE TRICKY. I THOUGH OTHERS MIS READ BUT IM THE ONE. SRY

I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES HE HAS TO SHOOT UP TABLE BUT I CANT SEE HOW YOU CAN FORCE A GUY NOT TO TAKE A FOUL.

WHAT IF HE MISCUES AND THE BALL ENDS UP SOMEHOW IN THE SAME PLACE. DOES HE GET THE SHOT OVER . NO

 

[pdcue]

LOL. I SEE NOW. WORDING WAS A LITTLE TRICKY. I THOUGH OTHERS MIS READ BUT IM THE ONE. SRY

I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES HE HAS TO SHOOT UP TABLE BUT I CANT SEE HOW YOU CAN FORCE A GUY NOT TO TAKE A FOUL.

WHAT IF HE MISCUES AND THE BALL ENDS UP SOMEHOW IN THE SAME PLACE. DOES HE GET THE SHOT OVER . NO

The rule isn't that you can't take a foul, the rule is that
you MUST shoot the CB out of baulk. IMHO - the most simple
ruling is the best. The corner hook move is unsport conduct.

But, I also think it's OK for the ref to explain that to the
shooter before he commits.

Dale

 

[dave sutton]

The rule isn't that you can't take a foul, the rule is that
you MUST shoot the CB out of baulk. IMHO - the most simple
ruling is the best. The corner hook move is unsport conduct.

But, I also think it's OK for the ref to explain that to the
shooter before he commits.

Dale

i understand that. i guess if the player argued enough and refused to take thye shot over the ref could award the other player ball in hand behind the line due to shot clock violation or something.

 

[pdcue]

i understand that. i guess if the player argued enough and refused to take thye shot over the ref could award the other player ball in hand behind the line due to shot clock violation or something.

Have you ever played in a tournament?
Arguing with the ref doesn't change the rules.

It's un-sports-man-like conduct. The end.

Dale

 

[dave sutton]

Have you ever played in a tournament?
Arguing with the ref doesn't change the rules.

It's un-sports-man-like conduct. The end.

Dale

ive honestly never played pool before in my life.

in my experiences refs dont hold your hand through every shot.

i scenerio is the guy already took the shot and stuck it in the pocket.

now does he retake the shot? and if he does. what if he miscues and ends up in the same exact spot somehow and never passes the line.

does he now get the shot over now???

 

[pdcue]

ive honestly never played pool before in my life.

in my experiences refs dont hold your hand through every shot.

i scenerio is the guy already took the shot and stuck it in the pocket.

now does he retake the shot? and if he does. what if he miscues and ends up in the same exact spot somehow and never passes the line.

does he now get the shot over now???

No do-overs.

If the shot has been completed, it is non-sports-man...
and prolly there shouldn't be a warning. I was relating my opinion
that if the ref saw my opponent apeared to not know the rule,
I would not mind if he explained the rule to him.

Where do they have 14.1 refs that don't watch every shot?

Would you care to illustrate exactly how you could miscue the ball in that way?

Dale