What or who is a flipper?

[ridewiththewind]

I understand the laws of supply and demand and the impact on price. I believe in capitalism and have no problems with people who know how to buy low and sell high. I respect people who revitalize old equipment and make them useful for current players.

My disappointment is with flippers who speculate in the futures market. That group are all trying to figure out who will be the next Balabushka/Szamboti/Searing. Once the potential bandwagon is identified, the cuemaker's order books get filled. For those of us who don't recognize these cuemakers at such an early time, the only access we have to owning one of their cues is to pay twice what the speculators were able to get the cue for and we have to agree to whatever specs they ordered.

I am a player, not a collector or speculator. While I believe that the quality of cue making is at an all-time high, there are still only a very few number of cues that I want to own and play with. Just having a recognized name has not been sufficient. Buy the time I have had the chance to play with a cue from a particular cuemaker and find one that I want to order, the list is already filled up. I would be happy to wait 2-3 years and to pay the cuemaker his price for a cue of my specs. But those deals are not available to me. At this point in my life, I have the means and am not afraid to spend. But I am disappointed at having to pay $1K+ to be "friends" with someone who has access that I lack. I am also disappointed at the number of times I have been turned down to order a cue that I want to play with.

The market is what it is. I understand that. But I am still disappointed how the market developed and it's impact on my ability to buy the cues that I would liked to have owned.

I have just come to the sad fact that there are certain maker's cues I will never be able to afford to own. I got on one maker's list about 10 years now. At that time, the wait was not as long as it is now. I wanted one of his cues, because he had a reputation for making THE players' cue. They were still within my reach at that point. However, his cues got hyped, deservedly so, and the secondary market prices began to go through the roof. As a consequence, the maker also raised his prices, to get a piece of that pie of rising values. Which, in turn, drove the aftermarket prices even higher. Basically, I got priced right out of a cue that I was early enough to get in on the list for. It is what it is.

 

[cueaddicts]

I have just come to the sad fact that there are certain maker's cues I will never be able to afford to own. I got on one maker's list about 10 years now. At that time, the wait was not as long as it is now. I wanted one of his cues, because he had a reputation for making THE players' cue. They were still within my reach at that point. However, his cues got hyped, deservedly so, and the secondary market prices began to go through the roof. As a consequence, the maker also raised his prices, to get a piece of that pie of rising values. Which, in turn, drove the aftermarket prices even higher. Basically, I got priced right out of a cue that I was early enough to get in on the list for. It is what it is.

Understand these frustrations.....but people cannot blame "flippers and dealers". The maker's very low production, awesome product and resulting super high demand did. That's what markets do.

If people are going to blame "flippers and dealers", then they should through "nuthuggers" into that mix, as well. lol

 

[JB Cases]

Understand these frustrations.....but people cannot blame "flippers and dealers". The maker's very low production, awesome product and resulting super high demand did. That's what markets do.

If people are going to blame "flippers and dealers", then they should through "nuthuggers" into that mix, as well. lol

Oh no.......you just brought the n word into the conversation

 

[ddadams]

It's a business for them. It's extra money and they're investing time into it like any other job, part time or not. They also take risks.

Am I a flipper because of my mindset? I plan on buying cues from "fire sales" that I know hold value or other venues when I can to make a profit selling at market price.


Due to a few people inflating Sugartree prices I could sell mine at a pretty good profit but would rather keep it. If I want to sell it I'd have to sell at profit.

If I "flip" the money I make is going right back into cues and the cue market. Be it for more cues to flip or some to collect.


I actually have a list of cues from a few makers that were already made on my "bucket list" for a personal collection I want to develop.


Flipping cues for extra money will help me get the other 4 that I've located.

I don't intend on flipping part of what I want to collect, unless it will get me a different cue I value more from my intended collection.

 

[macguy]

I have just come to the sad fact that there are certain maker's cues I will never be able to afford to own. I got on one maker's list about 10 years now. At that time, the wait was not as long as it is now. I wanted one of his cues, because he had a reputation for making THE players' cue. They were still within my reach at that point. However, his cues got hyped, deservedly so, and the secondary market prices began to go through the roof. As a consequence, the maker also raised his prices, to get a piece of that pie of rising values. Which, in turn, drove the aftermarket prices even higher. Basically, I got priced right out of a cue that I was early enough to get in on the list for. It is what it is.

What are you saying, the cuemaker you have ordered from will no longer honor his commitment? You have a cue on order at an agreed on price. You don't expect to ever get the cue now?

 

[batalarms]

I have a pretty good idea of the builder that Lisa (ridethewind) is referring to, and the prices are through the roof due to demand on the secondary market.It's a shame more people can't get great players from these 10 cues or less a year builders.Good luck Lisa.I hope you get what you're looking for.The one that I had was built well but the shafts were way too stiff for me,and I had trouble moving the cue ball around easily.I am sure that his newer shafts have a more "forgiving" taper.Balance point at 18 inches,was too far to the rear for my short arms too.Nice cue for someone though.Nice woods and quality build :wink:
Marc

 

[ridewiththewind]

What are you saying, the cuemaker you have ordered from will no longer honor his commitment? You have a cue on order at an agreed on price. You don't expect to ever get the cue now?

No, that is not what I am saying, at all. I am sure that the maker would have honored his commitment at some point...I kinda got bummed watching people who got on the list after me getting their cues a head of me, but I was still willing to wait it out, because from others who had received their cues, the pricing was still do-able. Then the word went out that the maker had raised his prices, and there was no 'grandfathering' of the prices for those who had already been waiting when that increase went into effect. The maker does not quote an actual price until it's your turn on the build list...but also does not take deposits...so I was not out anything tangible. Just the disappointment that it was not going to happen for me anymore. I did not make a big deal about it...just figured it was not meant to be. I'm okay with it...and certainly cannot blame the maker for raising his prices, given what was going on with his cues on the secondary market...with $6K being the average beginning selling price. I am merely a player, who wanted to play with the ultimate player's cue is all.

Like the Rolling Stones' tune says so aptly..."You can't always get what you want..."

The point I was trying to make...albeit badly, apparently, LoL...is that the same thing happened with his cues that was happening with SW's for years.....you had folks getting on the list who were willing to wait it out, who really had no intentions of keeping the cues, but rather to turn them over pretty immediately for far bigger bucks than the makers' were getting. They weren't really investing their dollars, because no deposits were taken...they were just investing their time. Some of us were waiting just to be able to actually have, (and play with), the finest playing cues made.

 

[ridewiththewind]

I have a pretty good idea of the builder that Lisa (ridethewind) is referring to, and the prices are through the roof due to demand on the secondary market.It's a shame more people can't get great players from these 10 cues or less a year builders.Good luck Lisa.I hope you get what you're looking for.The one that I had was built well but the shafts were way too stiff for me,and I had trouble moving the cue ball around easily.I am sure that his newer shafts have a more "forgiving" taper.Balance point at 18 inches,was too far to the rear for my short arms too.Nice cue for someone though.Nice woods and quality build :wink:
Marc
View attachment 336818

Nope....have no issue whatsoever with Murray...he made me a cue in a reasonable amount of time, given the understanding that he was not a full-time maker, and had a primary business and family that came before building cues. He built me exactly what I wanted. I would still recommend him highly to anyone I know....and he makes a helluva nice cue.

 

[batalarms]

Nope....have no issue whatsoever with Murray...he made me a cue in a reasonable amount of time, given the understanding that he was not a full-time maker, and had a primary business and family that came before building cues. He built me exactly what I wanted. I would still recommend him highly to anyone I know....and he makes a helluva nice cue.

Hi Lisa,
I guessed wrong.And yes Murray does build a very good cue.I wasn't implying anything negative about Mr Tucker.Nice to hear that you got a cue from him.Good luck.
Marc