What Size to Shim Home Practice Table Pockets To

Get_A_Grip

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
Hi All,

I've had a 9-foot home table for a couple years now and I am getting new Simonis 860 put on it this Wednesday. I had Championship cloth put on it when it was initially installed. The cloth doesn't have any rips or holes in it, but it has white marks on practically every square inch of it. The cloth probably doesn't really need to be changed, but I would like the look of new cloth and I want to see how much different the Simonis cloth plays on my home table...and also...

I'm almost embarrassed to say that I wasn't home when my new table was initially installed and as a result it has 5 inch pockets! I just figured that I would play on it with the big pockets for a couple years and until I was ready to recover it.

The table is also not level anymore...sometimes when I'm playing the wooden shims under the table actually fall out onto the floor!

Anyway, on to my question. For a home practice table--what size pockets would you all recommend that I have them shimmed to? I was thinking that 4 1/2 inch corner pockets would be good...but I'm really not sure. My thinking is that I would probably want them fairly tight for practice, to hopefully improve my accuracy, pocketing skills, and have less of a reliance on cheating the pocket to get shape (versus getting the right angle).

All opinions with rationale would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
I think 4.5 inch pockets are fine....When the cloth is new they will feel bigger, but as soon as the slide wears off they tighten up...

I would not think you would want to go any tighter than 4.5 unless you are either highly skilled, or like torture...

BTW...make sure the guy that shims the pockets knows what he is doing...badly shimmed 4.5 inch pockets could be worse than correctly shimmed 4.25 pockets.......You may (probably) need new rubber to have it done right...JMO
 
Get the smallest pockets possible. I currently have about 4.0" pockets and love them. They make your accuracy so much better it's unbelieveable.
 
I would say go no tighter than a double shim, only because, there is always going to be a shot that comes up, where you will need to cheat the pocket a bit, and if the pockets are so tight, its just going to spit the ball out.

I myself i like shooting on a Pro cut Diamond table.

dave
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Hi All,

I've had a 9-foot home table for a couple years now and I am getting new Simonis 860 put on it this Wednesday. I had Championship cloth put on it when it was initially installed. The cloth doesn't have any rips or holes in it, but it has white marks on practically every square inch of it. The cloth probably doesn't really need to be changed, but I would like the look of new cloth and I want to see how much different the Simonis cloth plays on my home table...and also...

I'm almost embarrassed to say that I wasn't home when my new table was initially installed and as a result it has 5 inch pockets! I just figured that I would play on it with the big pockets for a couple years and until I was ready to recover it.

The table is also not level anymore...sometimes when I'm playing the wooden shims under the table actually fall out onto the floor!

Anyway, on to my question. For a home practice table--what size pockets would you all recommend that I have them shimmed to? I was thinking that 4 1/2 inch corner pockets would be good...but I'm really not sure. My thinking is that I would probably want them fairly tight for practice, to hopefully improve my accuracy, pocketing skills, and have less of a reliance on cheating the pocket to get shape (versus getting the right angle).

All opinions with rationale would be appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Get them at about 4 1/4 to 4 3/4 at the front of a corner pocket. 4 1/4 are very tight pocket which change the game dramaticly. I'd recommend this size for you if you are A player or higher. Otherwise make them 4 1/2 or 4 3/4. Also you need to find out how you want them to be at the back of a corner pocket. Right now there are variety of shapes. Some of them have the same size at front and the back of a pocket. To give you some example my pockets are 4 3/4 - front and 3 3/4 back. This way I can't really cheat that much. I'm restreching my cloth right now and perhaps I'll make them even and smaller. I'm not sure exacly what are the standards right now and I'd like some input on it as well. See picture of my pocket.
 

Attachments

  • 3.jpg
    3.jpg
    37.8 KB · Views: 547
  • 4.jpg
    4.jpg
    37.3 KB · Views: 607
Single vs. Double Shimmed

Thanks everyone for the replies. From your comments, it sounds like I should go with something like 4 1/2 inches for the front of the pocket and about 4 inches at the back of the pocket. (or whatever size for the back of the pocket that corresponds or works-out to a 4 1/2 inch front).

1) Some of the comments raised a few new questions though. What size pockets correspond to single vs. a double shimmed pockets?

2) Is there a standard sized "shim" that makes the single and double shimmed pockets always the same final size?

3) Does the front size of the pocket actually determine what the back size will be--or are can they both be created independently (within reason)?

One thing that I've seen in the past that seemed to make the pockets play very difficult was the depth of the shelf that goes into the pocket. Pockets that have a regular, not too deep of a shelf, allow the balls to "drop in" easier. The pockets with a deep shelf seem to rattle the balls out much more. Although, I never really hear people quoting the deepness of the shelf of their pockets. Just something to thing about...

Thanks.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. From your comments, it sounds like I should go with something like 4 1/2 inches for the front of the pocket and about 4 inches at the back of the pocket. (or whatever size for the back of the pocket that corresponds or works-out to a 4 1/2 inch front).

1) Some of the comments raised a few new questions though. What size pockets correspond to single vs. a double shimmed pockets?

2) Is there a standard sized "shim" that makes the single and double shimmed pockets always the same final size?

3) Does the front size of the pocket actually determine what the back size will be--or are can they both be created independently (within reason)?

One thing that I've seen in the past that seemed to make the pockets play very difficult was the depth of the shelf that goes into the pocket. Pockets that have a regular, not too deep of a shelf, allow the balls to "drop in" easier. The pockets with a deep shelf seem to rattle the balls out much more. Although, I never really hear people quoting the deepness of the shelf of their pockets. Just something to thing about...

Thanks.
Click to expand...

It seems like I have not quite correctly described my pockets. The front of a pocket (look at the picture) it would actually be front of the rail and by the back of the pocket I meant where the back of the rails is (only where the cloth is). That means within only deep of the rail there is an inch of a difference. New Diamonds at The Open this year had those shaped evenly about 4 1/2. When you look at this picture that shows overhead view of a pocket you will see that the slate goes almost to the end of back of the rail which makes balls rattle. There is this drill in Target Pool which was written by Kim Davenport in 1992 that is impossible to do it on this particular table. Back in 1992 pockets were shaped differently and they were also much bigger.
 
I wouldn't go any smaller than 4 3/4". You have to learn how to cheat the pocket when you've gotten too straight on a shot.

But it really depends on what your pool aspiriations are. Do you wnat to play professionally? Do you compete in tournaments at rooms that have tables with shimmed pockets?

Barbara
 
Aspirations vs. Pocket Size...

Barbara said:
I wouldn't go any smaller than 4 3/4". You have to learn how to cheat the pocket when you've gotten too straight on a shot.

But it really depends on what your pool aspiriations are. Do you wnat to play professionally? Do you compete in tournaments at rooms that have tables with shimmed pockets?

Barbara
Click to expand...

My aspirations are to become good enough practicing at home and occassionally at the local pool halls to be able to cash in local tournaments. I haven't played in any local tournaments for over 15 years. The few I played in years ago, I was a beginner...but came one spot from the money a couple times. I won first in the end of league tournament once when then matched me up with a random partner.

I also came in first in a handicapped 8-ball partners league once. My partner and I were both good for beginners and gradually improved as the season went on.

On my home table when I take the 9-ball skills test, I come up as a Semi-Pro (but that is on 5" pockets).

I actually just measured my pockets again--the corners are 5" at front and 4 1/2 inches at back. Sides are 5 1/2 at front and 4 3/4 at back. I would like them tighter so that they will be at least as tight as any tables that I will encounter when playing tournaments. When I play at the local pool halls with shimmed pockets, it takes me about an hour to get used to the tigher pockets. Thanks.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
My aspirations are to become good enough practicing at home and occassionally at the local pool halls to be able to cash in local tournaments. I haven't played in any local tournaments for over 15 years. The few I played in years ago, I was a beginner...but came one spot from the money a couple times. I won first in the end of league tournament once when then matched me up with a random partner.
Click to expand...

In your case I wouldn't make the pockets too tight because it would become frustrating for you. Also, are the pockets at the places you play at shimmed? At my local room the Black Crowns were all shimmed so I decided to level the playing field and shimmed my table's pocket to the same width.

Good luck!

Barbara
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. From your comments, it sounds like I should go with something like 4 1/2 inches for the front of the pocket and about 4 inches at the back of the pocket. (or whatever size for the back of the pocket that corresponds or works-out to a 4 1/2 inch front).

1) Some of the comments raised a few new questions though. What size pockets correspond to single vs. a double shimmed pockets?

2) Is there a standard sized "shim" that makes the single and double shimmed pockets always the same final size?

3) Does the front size of the pocket actually determine what the back size will be--or are can they both be created independently (within reason)?

One thing that I've seen in the past that seemed to make the pockets play very difficult was the depth of the shelf that goes into the pocket. Pockets that have a regular, not too deep of a shelf, allow the balls to "drop in" easier. The pockets with a deep shelf seem to rattle the balls out much more. Although, I never really hear people quoting the deepness of the shelf of their pockets. Just something to thing about...

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I am no table mechanic, but I think it varies for all three quetions...

On my GCII

1) It took two shims (on each side) to get 4.5 pockets....
2) I think the shims that can be used do vary in thickness..(and hardness)
3) If you are just shimming the table, your angle is probably already set...I would imagine that you could cut the rubber at a different angle....but from what I have seen on GC tables...the angle of the actual rail is what determins the cut of the rubber...

I think one of the problems with double and triple shimmed tables is that the thickness of the combined shims causes the facing to be too soft...thus any spin on the OB when it hits the facing of the pocket is amplified....

I think that is part of the cause of thick shimed pockets spitting balls out...If the OB ball touches the rail, it picks up a spin that when the ball hits the now soft facing of the pocket, the spin grabs the facing and then rattles in the pocket instead of going in.....(thats why the pockets get tighter as the slide wears off of the cloth)

If you have the rail built up like is supposed to be done and use only a single shim like is supposed to be done...the pockets will recieve balls like its supposed to...even though they are tighter...

The same goes for changing the angle from the opening to the back...a bigger difference will in my opinion spit balls out as the wider angle rebounds the ball away from the pocket instead of into the pocket....A smaller difference or shallower angle will feed the ball into the pocket better in my opinion...It may just be my mental perception...who knows, but I have played on tables with buckets for pockets that seemed to play tighter to me than tables with smaller pockets just because of the way the angle was cut...JMO

There is also a "under cut angle" in the facing...I am not sure what role this plays in the way a pocket plays. I would imagine it plays a role as I have never seen a table without a under cut angle in the facing.....

I don't see a reason to go tighter than 4.5 pockets on a home table....You want to be able to practice all types of shots...Pockets that are tighter will not allow you to practice some shots as they just won't go.....As far as learing better accuracy...You will know on any size pocket if your accuracy was good or not just be watching if the ball went in the center of the pocket...or the part of the pocket you were aiming at.
 
[QUOTE.....As far as learing better accuracy...You will know on any size pocket if your accuracy was good or not just be watching if the ball went in the center of the pocket...or the part of the pocket you were aiming at.[/QUOTE]

Its actually important to have some room left in pockets, so you can intentionally play a ball into a side of a pocket. Sometimes when you cheating or playing english you just can't play into center of a pocket. If you do your pockets to tide you won't learn how to take advantage of that.
 
Pocket Size...

I agree with Barbara on this one...4 3/4 at the front...4 1/2 at the back...plenty tight but still allow the cheat at the front...and with the 4 1/2 at the back they won't take slop...

can't wait to finish my basement remodel...so I can be next with the table questions! :D
 
two of my buds had xtra tight pockets (less than 4.5) and both regretted it.
one opened 'em back up. the other guy's going to. It reduces the enjoyment tremendously to have the balls constantly being spit back out at you. As jersey said: between 4.5 and 4.75 gives you adequate accuracy challenge and there's still enough allowance for cheat options.
 
Update - Pockets Shimmed

Just wanted to give an update...

Had my pockets shimmed to 4 1/2 inches at the front and 4 inches at the back on Wednesday. Can't push two balls together into the conners.

Right now with the new cloth (Simonis 860) the pockets are playing just fine--not too tight at all. I can't wait until the cloth wears-in a bit and the pockets start to play even tighter.

Also, it's really something with the new cloth--full length of the table draw shots where the OB is near the pocket and CB is near the opposite rail are a piece of cake.

The table (including banks) play so differently with the balls skidding around the table--it really makes me wonder how the pros adjust, if they have to play on newly covered tables for tournaments. Yeah, the draw shots are a lot easier--but so many other things change...new cloth is very tough to play on in that respect... It feels like I will never get use to it...I hope it wears-in quick...LOL
 
Put in enough shims so only a golf ball will fit.

That way you will have a great excuse for missing.

But if you want to improve your pool game - use the table the way it comes from the factory and was designed by an engineer for optimal performance and playability.

TY & GL
 
With fast cloth, 4 1/2 inches is not too tight...

OldHasBeen said:
That way you will have a great excuse for missing.

But if you want to improve your pool game - use the table the way it comes from the factory and was designed by an engineer for optimal performance and playability.

TY & GL
Click to expand...

I would agree, except I want the pockets at least as tight as the pool halls that I go to (which are 4 1/2 inch corners). At 4 1/2 inches, there is still plenty of room to cheat the pocket.

Now that the cloth is new and very fast, I would say that I can make all of the same shots and get the same leaves when hitting the shots a bit softer. Although, I must admit...when the cloth wears some and doesn't slide as much, it may be difficult to get the cue ball to any place on the table--since power shots will need to be carefully controlled...
 
Get_A_Grip said:
I would agree, except I want the pockets at least as tight as the pool halls that I go to (which are 4 1/2 inch corners). At 4 1/2 inches, there is still plenty of room to cheat the pocket.

Now that the cloth is new and very fast, I would say that I can make all of the same shots and get the same leaves when hitting the shots a bit softer. Although, I must admit...when the cloth wears some and doesn't slide as much, it may be difficult to get the cue ball to any place on the table--since power shots will need to be carefully controlled...
Click to expand...


Sounds like you got it just right! I had the same dilema when I got My GC4 a few years back. I got it from the U.S Open, and I was gonna wedge it up tight for 1-pocket, but some friends talked me down off that ledge. I left it just like they had it a the tournament, and it played perfect. Like yours, 2 balls would'nt go into the corner pocket, yet it played loose enough to move the cueball around.
I did talk to the guy who recovers the tables at the local pool hall and he said you can order different rails on GC's so you don't have to use shims in the corners, which can sometimes get funky.....Gerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top