What would you do? 8-ball in dire situation

Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So my opponent was on the hill and I was just having one of those bad days. You know, when you can't see the outs and even if you do, you can't knock down the shots? Well, I'm playing on a double-shim table, struggling a little to knock 'em down and end up messing up my out (again). However, I manage to tie things up but I'm looking things over and realize that my opponent has the advantage. All he has to do is combo my ball in and I'm pretty much through (see Wei table below).

START(
%A[5B1%BF3Z5%Cp4G8%D[5B3%EJ4Z8%FI0Z8%Gr4J0%HH7N7%IB6B6%JB6B6
%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%ND0Z5%O[5\7%PZ3I8
)END

022306.GIF

I have the 13 and 14 near the lower-left corner. The rest are all solids. Now, I'll save you the suspence, I didn't win but I thought my idea was my best chance. Before I give it away, I was wondering what everyone else had in mind. BTW, my last shot was defensive. Although I did want to try breaking out the 13, I simply didn't see anything good coming from it.
 
That is a tough one. After thinking of a few moves, I guess I would start pocketing his balls. Maybe make the 14 and play shape on the 7, pocket the 7 and take a foul. Then hope he can't get out. If he makes the 3 and breaks out his balls, he deserves to get out.

I would hope he makes the 3 and misses the breakout. Then I would hope my 13 is holding the pocket hostage and try to use it to my advantage. I've won games like that before. I never really know how it will end but sometimes it goes my way...


Although, after thinking about it, I think I would make the 14 , breakout the cluster and see what happens. Risky but it could go either way...
 
CaptiveBred said:
That is a tough one. After thinking of a few moves, I guess I would start pocketing his balls. Maybe make the 14 and play shape on the 7, pocket the 7 and take a foul. Then hope he can't get out. If he makes the 3 and breaks out his balls, he deserves to get out.

I would hope he makes the 3 and misses the breakout. Then I would hope my 13 is holding the pocket hostage and try to use it to my advantage. I've won games like that before. I never really know how it will end but sometimes it goes my way...
Click to expand...


Good idea and normally I would consider this strategy but I didn't have that kind of time to play with. The combo to make my hanger was wired which gives him the immediate advantage since he'd likely hang-up his own ball in the process and could safe me at the same time. I had to assume he knew this.
 
Ok how bout this,

Play the carom off the 13 making the 14 with the 2. I just tried the shot twice. First time I made the 14 left the 13 on the rail with a clean look. Played safe leaving the 13 hanging in the corner pocket.

Second time the 13 kicked out for a shot in the opposite corner pocket & I was able to get out.
 
Fore Rail said:
Ok how bout this,

Play the carom off the 13 making the 14 with the 2. I just tried the shot twice. First time I made the 14 left the 13 on the rail with a clean look. Played safe leaving the 13 hanging in the corner pocket.

Second time the 13 kicked out for a shot in the opposite corner pocket & I was able to get out.
Click to expand...

Ok, then this diagram doesn't illustrate the details well. In this instance, I couldn't do that. I only saw enough to cut it directly into the rail. Other than my hanger, no offensive option was available. Sorry about that.
 
I'll try it one more time hoping u r referencing the 13 as the ball u could see enuff to cut directly into the rail.

Ok, if I could see the 13 enuff to get a hit, I would play the carom, possibly making his two ball & hoping to have the cue ball end up behind the 8 ball. This would obscure the direct line to the 3 & 7 leaving my opponent a jump shot, masse or rail first kick shot.
 
While I know you dont like this line of thinking I will state it anyway. It really depends on who you are playing. We are talking league pool and not pros. Some league guys like yourself play very well and if I were you and left the 13 tied up agianst you I would lose.

Tough call
Leave the 13 tied up your opponent will likely be able to play around it and win.

If you could cross the 2 out of there and get it up table it might make it tougher on him but with ball and hand I would think most guys would
play smart and you would lose.

Pushing the eight over below the 2 might help but then your still tied up.

I really wish I had a table to set this up on or would ahve been able to see the layout first hand orginally.

With the good angle on the 14 I would have to try for the out. Even if you had little to no shot maybe a better safe comes up or his balls stop in a funky layout. Having the ability to really cut the 14 and hit the stack hard is a major plus. In addition you dont have to worry so much about the 8 as its pretty open.

Hard to tell the angle but if not going for it was just slow rolling into the 13 a possibilty. Maybe it changes the dead combo with his balls into yours.

Tough spot. I would try for the break out. If forced to play some sort of defensive shot I would opt to leave both my balls on the table and try to make his layout tougher while hoping for a mistake.

I am interested in learning what you did as well as some of your thoughts while at the table. Also did they change afterward. Sometimes I think of a better shot or a different shot after I have shot regardless of the outcome.
 
As Frank said, it really does depend on the skill of the person you are playing.

Seeing that you cannot call safe, I would cut the 14 with maxium top left and knock the 2 into the 13 to spread everything out. This is assuming that I have no room to work with on the 13.

If I did, bank the 13 off the rail so that it cuts the 2 into the 14. You would have to shoot this with enough speed so that the 2 wont get frozen to the 14 incase it doesn't sink. This way the 13 will at least be freed. Worst case, if the 14 doesn't go in, it will be there to block that pocket for his balls at the moment.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
START(
%A[5B1%BF3Z5%Cp4G8%D[5B3%EJ4Z8%FI0Z8%Gr4J0%HH7N7%IB6B6%JB6B6
%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%ND0Z5%O[5\7%PZ3I8
)END

View attachment 15441

I have the 13 and 14 near the lower-left corner. .
Click to expand...
The diagram might be deceiving, as is the norm. You're in trouble, defensively or offensively. If there's a hit on the 13, it looks like you might be able to cross over the 13, but call the 14. The cueball might carom off the 2 and either the 2 or cue might knock the 14 ball in, and hopefully, you've broken out the 13. If the 14 doesn't drop, it's still jawed and you're still alive...barely.

START(
%A[5B1%BF3Z5%Cp4G8%D[5B3%EJ4Z8%FI0Z8%Gr4J0%HH7N7%IB6B6%JB6B6
%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%ND0Z5%O[5\7%PZ3I8%UH2Q3%VG8Y9%WH5Y3%XY5J3
%[E4Z4%\E8Z5%eB5`9%bD6Y2%cE9X8%dG5Y7
)END

Fred

Edit: I see that this shot wasn't available. So, here's a wing-dinger. The first hit has to be pretty accurate:

START(
%A[5B1%BF3Z5%Cp4G8%D[5B3%EJ4Z8%FI0Z8%Gr4J0%HH7N7%IB6B6%JB6B6
%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%ND0Z5%O[5\7%PZ3I8%QF9W5%UL8Z8%VI7Z7%WD5X6
%XY5J3%YE1Y6%ZD0Y1%[E4Z4%\E8Z5%eB5`9%bH8X7%cG6Y3%dF8Y5
)END

and hopeful leave:

START(
%A[5B1%BF4Z4%Cp4G8%D[5B3%Gr4J0%HH7N7%IB6B6%JB6B6%K[5\6%L[7B3
%MH0Z5%NC0[7%O[5\7%PG9W3%QF9W5%eB5`9%cV7_1
)END

If you get any separation with 2 and 3, the bank might be on.

Fred
 
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I think I would just keep tapping one of my balls until he was force to play one of the solids left in the cluster. Hopefully then he would break your ball out so you can at least play some type of saftey.
 
Hi, Jude. I don't know the APA rules. Any sense in playing the 8 into the 14 softly, pocketing the 14 and blocking the pocket with the 8? Thanks for the puzzle.--AS
 
Apa Rules Right?

A= Any
P= Pocket
A= A-Hole

No, really.. no much defense here. Someitmes you have to be the bear. Jam the 13 ball and hope for the carom into the 2 to the 14. If it goes, then you can get out.
JL
 
I see 2 moves both offensive shots. 1st hit the 13 dead on which in turn will hit the 2 pocketing the 14 and breaking out the 13 for a easy run out. Or play the 14 1st come off the short rail and break out the 13.Then run out like you have been on the road for 6 months and your in dead punch.
 
What he said ...

RoadAgent said:
I see 2 moves both offensive shots. 1st hit the 13 dead on which in turn will hit the 2 pocketing the 14 and breaking out the 13 for a easy run out. Or play the 14 1st come off the short rail and break out the 13.Then run out like you have been on the road for 6 months and your in dead punch.
Click to expand...

I would do his first shot mentioned, hitting the 13 which would make the 2 hit the 14, and it looks like the 14 might jaw in the pocket instead of going in, hard enough where the 2 would hit the end rail and come back uptable
where he could not make it in the corner pocket. Then, your 13 is on the end and broke out, the 14 might be right in the jaws, and he still has 2 balls
on the long rail with your 14 possibly blocking them. I think this swings the game back to your favor.
 
Well, I know the move Jude tried, and liked it a lot. Had it worked, the odds would still have been against him, but improved dramatically

I had to assume he knew this
Click to expand...

Knowing the opponent in question, this was a good assumption.
 
Don't forget, you don't *have* to shoot at your ball.

There is the intentional miscue... "Oops! I'm going to get this darn tip replaced! You have ball-in-hand."

Or intentional foul... Pocket or move one of your opponents balls to a nasty place. Or move 8-ball to a nasty place.

Or just grab cue ball and hand it to your opponent (giving them ball-in-hand). This might not be as good as an intentional miscue. Your opponent may figure out that you are doing this for a reason. With the intentional miscue, they may become delighted with their good fortune of getting ball-in hand, shoot in their non-clustered balls first, then break out that mess for you - depends on the player though.
 
Captain said:
Hi, Jude. I don't know the APA rules. Any sense in playing the 8 into the 14 softly, pocketing the 14 and blocking the pocket with the 8? Thanks for the puzzle.--AS
Click to expand...


Hey Captain. This is exactly what I did. Unfortunately, I hit it a little too good and too strong and had the 8-ball follow in (yes, on tight pockets no less). Had I hung the 8-ball, I would have offered a draw immediately. That was my goal.

A few people looked at me as though I was crazy but I honestly thought I was backed in a corner. If I didn't dramatically change the layout of the table right then and there, he was going to make my life very difficult. Moving the 8-ball infront of a pocket we both really needed seemed like the way to go.
 
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