What's the big deal with Custom Cues???

[SplicedPoints]

here is where you are wrong. the shaft plays a part but what a good cue maker knows is that the shaft is affected by the joint specs, pin type, ring type and but material that can change the hit (feel) dramatically and also effect deflection. making a great hitting cue is an artform in itself and in NO way exclusive to the shaft.

The key word i used is MAY. Just by slapping a good shaft on any butt won't make a cue play good. I bet if you put a good SW shaft on a cuetec it'll probably play like what it is, a cuetec. But I've seen some run of the mill butts matched with decent shafts to produce decent playing cues. I guess it's up to some luck for you to get the right combo. As the matter of fact, here in Taiwan, a lot of people buy SW shafts and match them with non-SW butts. Apparently that's suppose to make the cue play better than when it has the stock shaft on. Never tried it myself, but some people do that.

 

[Rod]

Well first off the word custom is way over used. If you really have a custom cue it's made to your specs both appearance and construction/specifications. It's not custom if it rolled off the assembly line or even made by one of the many talented cue makers. That is you’d have to tell then you want a ____ tip, ____ ferrule, ____ shaft taper ____length/size, ____ joint, ____pin, ____butt taper, ____ size at front & back of the wrap, wrap, ____butt cap, X balance point, points, inlays and the list goes on.

Not very many pool players even know exactly what they like for sure. Not many know what those specs are for the cue they own. Some probably don’t even play well enough to give it much thought or care. It’s apparent on the cue forum if you ask a technical question some just go by feel which might be ok to them. Either that or they sold a cue they really liked and can’t replace it. If they knew the specs they’d come a hell of a lot closer instead of searching for the magic bullet, no matter who makes the cue.

Me, I have 1 cue that’s real close but I’ve never had one made exactly as I want. That never stopped me from running a ton of balls but I doubt the perfect one will make it any better. I might feel better but that’s probably all. So the word custom does mean something to me, it's not just a word you throw out and put up for grabs. BTW, I’m working on that right now.

I’d say if pool players want a jump start they pay attention to want feels good and write down the specs. You need a ruler and some dial indicator calipers and you have plenty of time for testing, a life time.

Rod

 

[PoolSleuth]

Allisoin Fischer uses the dreaded Cuetec. Yes she has an aftermarket shaft but there is my argument.

Add to you argument that fact Allisoin Fischer has more TALENT than most Players..., and you Argument goes up in flames. Bet Allisoin Fischer could play well with a WARPED HUSE CUE, because she is Allisoin Fischer....

 

[Flex]

Plus, as others have said, it's nice when someone compliments you on your cue! Some of us are pretty emotionally needy and need the compliments and attention from others...lol.

Although handsome cues are great to look at, those looks don't pot the balls, or move the cue ball around the table, and don't take kindly to getting banged around. Getting dinged and banged happens with my cues even if I'm doing my best to avoid that.

At this point, I shoot with a simple sneaky with a short stack leather wrap I slapped on it, plus a custom shaft.

The other day it was laying on a table and someone asked what cue it was. Told him it was a cheapy sneaky pete, a Cuetec Excalibur and he looked over at me with a disgusted look like I was trying to hustle him. I added that the shaft was custom made. This guy apparently didn't believe that a cheapie sneaky like that one could play well. Of course it can, and the hit is the reason I play with it. Very sweet hit. And a very cheap cue. By the way, the hit hasn't changed with the custom shaft, it's still the same. And it plays lights out.

Flex

 

[Flex]

Plus a Custom is like a Custom Suit, it is to the Player Specification, and not off the Rack like a Sears Suit....

That comparison to suits is quite a bit off. It's quite possible to obtain really excellent off-the-rack suits if you're willing to spend the money, and they aren't cheap, nor can you get them at Sears. However, a custom made suit that is really made well is a different animal. The fit and feel is different, and so are the looks. To make the comparison relatively valid, a Sears would stack up against a good custom made suit the way one of those 4 piece cues, with the washers in between the joints that go for $9.95 at KMart or wherever, would compare to a high-performance custom cue.

Flex

 

[NYC cue dude]

johnny archer does NOT play with a 314 shaft. Scorpion would crucify him. I know this to be true. As said, great players can play with anything, and still play great, if they have time to adjust to it. Thorsten plays with a lucasi with a universal smart shaft. Why, because they sponsor him.

It is also true that many elite players buy a cue and do change their shafts. Many players today add a predator shaft or x shaft. I also know this to be true.

Why I own custom cues, because I can. Every cue hits different, and I get to pick and choose what I like about a different cue. I also buy them as an investment/hobby. I buy cues that I think are attractive, will go up in value, and have a history of fine craftmanship.

rg

 

[catscradle]

... I have yet to see what is so great about them besides looks and nastalgia...

Yeah, so what's wrong with that? Personally I buy custom cues for the craftsmanship, some are more consistent with the feel I like than others, but that isn't why I buy them. I could have played forever with my first custom cue (my Mike Webb) and been content, it's a great cue and I still shoot with it. However, I just like nice cues. I think there are a lot of us who buy multiple custom cues for only that reason.

 

[skins]

$$$

The key word i used is MAY. Just by slapping a good shaft on any butt won't make a cue play good. I bet if you put a good SW shaft on a cuetec it'll probably play like what it is, a cuetec. But I've seen some run of the mill butts matched with decent shafts to produce decent playing cues. I guess it's up to some luck for you to get the right combo. As the matter of fact, here in Taiwan, a lot of people buy SW shafts and match them with non-SW butts. Apparently that's suppose to make the cue play better than when it has the stock shaft on. Never tried it myself, but some people do that.

i'm reffering to the statement you made that "Most of a cue's performance comes from the SHAFT". that is just dead wrong period. the word "may" is not in that phrase. i know where your going with this but your basis on this part of the sublect is flawed. most can't teach you the fine points of well made custom cues and the reality is most of the time you have to spend allot of money to find out the answers to this subject for yourself. it's like anything in life finding the best always cost money and most will never experience the "best" because they never have enough or think the game, or whatever their intereset, important enough to them to spend the money. you can try others cues untill you find one you "think" you like then have to play with it for a while to make sure you feel comfortable with it and then of course the more you play with it you will start to notice things like the shaft taper, balance point, butt thickness, wrap feel, weight ect.... that's when you say to yourself "i think i'm going to give the cuemaker a call and have him make me the same type cue only made to my specs". that's where having the money comes in. now the majority of poeple that play pool don't notice the differeces that can make the cue play better and ultimately make them feel more comfortable and become better players. some just don't want to spend the money. IMHO most that question the superior playability of a custom cue can't afford them.

 

[Flex]

IMHO most that question the superior playability of a custom cue can't afford them.

Now that's quite a statement, especially when one can pick up a very decent custom sneaky pete with nice wood for under 3 bills....

Flex

 

[pete lafond]

Is it possible that what is being said is the order of importance is the;

1. Tip
2. Shaft
3. Butt

rather than a blanket statement about all cues play the same?

 

[Purdman]

Because

Because I can!
Purdman

 

[skins]

Now that's quite a statement, especially when one can pick up a very decent custom sneaky pete with nice wood for under 3 bills....

Flex

tell me what custom makers will make you "custom " sneaky to your specs for under $300 dollars. find out if they build the entire cue including the splice from scratch, types of woods used in the butt, how many shafts, shaft grain, ringwork type, pin type, ferrule length and type and tip used ect.... you'll find you don't have many choices at that price. allot goes into a true custm sneaky and the playabillity of custom sneaky's is still determined buy the maker and his constuction methods. you get what you pay for.

 

[skins]

Is it possible that what is being said is the order of importance is the;

1. Tip
2. Shaft
3. Butt

rather than a blanket statement about all cues play the same?

the hit of a cue is not determined in any order. in short it would be a combonation of the specs including but not limited too woods used, joint type, ring work, shaft consrtuction, lenght- type- tapper- ferrule- tip, ballance point, cue weight and length, butt construction and many others all combine to drastically affect the "hit " of a cue. there isn't one type of perfect hit. you can have a cue that has a great hard hit and one that has a great soft hit and allot in between. what a great cuemaker does is determine the "type'" of hit the customer want's in his cue then constructs to attain that goal. some peolpe swear by ernie's cues some by southwest and some by josey ect... because that's the type hit they want. these makers can adjust to the customers specs and still get "their" feel. that's one trick for the maker, getting the cue to have a great "feel" with the type of hit chosen for the cue being made. this separates good custom cue makers from others that produce cues.

 

[Flex]

tell me what custom makers will make you "custom " sneaky to your specs for under $300 dollars. find out if they build the entire cue including the splice from scratch, types of woods used in the butt, how many shafts, shaft grain, ringwork type, pin type, ferrule length and type and tip used ect.... you'll find you don't have many choices at that price. allot goes into a true custm sneaky and the playabillity of custom sneaky's is still determined buy the maker and his constuction methods. you get what you pay for.

Obviously the fancier the cue, the more exotic the specs, the more difficult the making of the cue, etc., the higher the price.

One custom cuemaker told me that he would make a "custom" conversion of a high quality, older house cue (with nice wood, of course), including installing a pin of my choice, simple rings and joint collars, retapering of the shaft, turning down the butt, etc. etc, refinishing the whole cue, for under $275.

Is that "custom"? Perhaps not to you, or to those who wish all sorts of goodies on the cue, but to me it's plenty "custom". If I want other goodies, say inlays, or exotic woods, or a special leather wrap, etc., etc., etc., there's a price to pay for that, and he does mighty fine work. I'm not aware that the deal he offered me is one he'll make for the whole wide world, so perhaps my "under 3 bills" comment is a bit unfair, but his offer to me stands. Next time I see him I'll check and see if he wants me announcing his special deal on a "custom"ized sneaky pete mentioned here. I doubt he'll want that, as his inventory of older house cues isn't unlimited.

Cheers!

Flex

 

[billiardshot]

I own a custom Dieckman and a Todd Elkins [Parrot Cue] cues, which I use daily whether practice or playing [depending on the game play]. Both cues are Highend design, but was a gift meant to be play with, not to look at in a case!

 

[pete lafond]

the hit of a cue is not determined in any order. in short it would be a combonation of the specs including but not limited too woods used, joint type, ring work, shaft consrtuction, lenght- type- tapper- ferrule- tip, ballance point, cue weight and length, butt construction and many others all combine to drastically affect the "hit " of a cue. there isn't one type of perfect hit. you can have a cue that has a great hard hit and one that has a great soft hit and allot in between. what a great cuemaker does is determine the "type'" of hit the customer want's in his cue then constructs to attain that goal. some peolpe swear by ernie's cues some by southwest and some by josey ect... because that's the type hit they want. these makers can adjust to the customers specs and still get "their" feel. that's one trick for the maker, getting the cue to have a great "feel" with the type of hit chosen for the cue being made. this separates good custom cue makers from others that produce cues.

I agree 100% the hit is all components fashioned together as you stated. My comment was the instance of someone stating just to put a good shaft on a low end butt. This does improve playability which is why companies do a very good business selling shafts.

As noted earlier many pros are stuck playing certain equipment due to sponsorship. Not because the equipment is bad, just does not fit them to give them a confidence level they need. Sound of hit is also very important to players.

Some players can achieve maximum performance with some very excellent production cues. It is all preference. On the other hand if you've got the bucks to spend there are many benefits to cust and hand maded beauty is one.

 

[skins]

One custom cuemaker told me that he would make a "custom" conversion of a high quality, older house cue (with nice wood, of course), including installing a pin of my choice, simple rings and joint collars, retapering of the shaft, turning down the butt, etc. etc, refinishing the whole cue, for under $275.

no disrespect to the cuemaker but how would he know for sure the cue had "nice wood"? he didn't choose these woods nor make the cue. besides the construction of the butt and shafts, along with the wood types used, play a great role in the consistent hit and feel of a cue. the only consistent hitting "conversions" i've ever played with were titelist fronts that had been compleetly redone, new handle, sleeve and all. i'm not saying you can't pick an old cue and fix it up , make new shafts for it and make it play good i'm saying if you have no controll over the initial building of the main parts of the cue you can't gaurantee a successful result. you only get a "consistently" good result when you start from scratch.

 

[Koop]

I agree 100% the hit is all components fashioned together as you stated. My comment was the instance of someone stating just to put a good shaft on a low end butt. This does improve playability which is why companies do a very good business selling shafts.

As noted earlier many pros are stuck playing certain equipment due to sponsorship. Not because the equipment is bad, just does not fit them to give them a confidence level they need. Sound of hit is also very important to players.

Some players can achieve maximum performance with some very excellent production cues. It is all preference. On the other hand if you've got the bucks to spend there are many benefits to cust and hand maded beauty is one.

Pete,

I completely agree. To be honest, I've been having custom cues built to order for about two years now and have found myself back with a production Joss and loving it. I do have a Webb on order because, in my opinion based only on the cues I have played with, his are the best playing customs on the market. Besides Mike's cues my favorites are Joss, Schon, and Helmstetter.

I have also found that I really love a HARD tip. I was playing with Triangles until recently when I tried a Hercules Hard. This thing makes a Triangle feel like an Elkmaster.

In terms of most important(TO ME) is a combination of:
Tip (Medium Hard-Hard)
Ferrule (Non-Ivory, preferrably Micarta or Melamine)
Balance point (Between 18 - 20 from buttend)
Cue weight (19.6 - 20.5)
SS Joint

I guess it would vary from one to the next but this is definitely what I have found to be the most critical when it comes to ball pocketing and feel.

Hope all is well buddy and maybe I'll see you at the Joss finale again.

Koop

 

[Snapshot9]

Lol ....

Why pick out a woman to be a girlfriend when ANY woman would do ... lol

and many times, it is a high dollar woman, for various reasons ... <grin>

 

[pete lafond]

Pete,

I completely agree. To be honest, I've been having custom cues built to order for about two years now and have found myself back with a production Joss and loving it. I do have a Webb on order because, in my opinion based only on the cues I have played with, his are the best playing customs on the market. Besides Mike's cues my favorites are Joss, Schon, and Helmstetter.

I have also found that I really love a HARD tip. I was playing with Triangles until recently when I tried a Hercules Hard. This thing makes a Triangle feel like an Elkmaster.

In terms of most important(TO ME) is a combination of:
Tip (Medium Hard-Hard)
Ferrule (Non-Ivory, preferrably Micarta or Melamine)
Balance point (Between 18 - 20 from buttend)
Cue weight (19.6 - 20.5)
SS Joint

I guess it would vary from one to the next but this is definitely what I have found to be the most critical when it comes to ball pocketing and feel.

Hope all is well buddy and maybe I'll see you at the Joss finale again.

Koop

Mike Webb built a cue for a player in our room. I'm trying to get the player to post a picture of it here though I'm not sure the picture will do it justice. This is the most beautiful cue I have ever seen. And I mean ever seen. The finish is immaculate. I understand that Mike has a new method for finishing the butt which clearly is so different than before (not that before was bad either).