10 zipperouny
What's the call...8 ball Valley rules...
- Thread starter 8onthebreak
- Start date
Vnea
In VNEA rules, you take the lowest score possible ON the table. In your scenario, it would be a 10-2. If somehow 4 solids and 3 stripes were made, again, you take the lowest score possible 10-3. Also, think about an ERO in VNEA, If you break and make 4 solids but choose to run out stripes the score would be 10-4. The other player never designated but still gets credit for the balls.
In VNEA rules, you take the lowest score possible ON the table. In your scenario, it would be a 10-2. If somehow 4 solids and 3 stripes were made, again, you take the lowest score possible 10-3. Also, think about an ERO in VNEA, If you break and make 4 solids but choose to run out stripes the score would be 10-4. The other player never designated but still gets credit for the balls.
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I've heard many people say that in the "8-ball pocketed before groups are established" situation, VNEA rules state that the loser gets the lower point total. If that truly is the rule, I've never seen it in print. I went through the VNEA rule book, but couldn't find it. If you can, please show it to me because I like to know the rules.
As far as your ERO scenario goes, you're forgetting one very important fact: if you ERO me, you legally established groups on your first shot. The moment you established solids as your group, I became stripes. Therefore, when you ERO me, I still receive the stripe points.
It's completely different if the 8-ball is pocketed before groups are established. Neither player is solids or stripes. In this case, winning or losing has nothing to do with solids or stripes.
I finally got a definitive, documented VNEA rule about this situation. As posted on their website in the VNEA 2013 "Complete Tournament Details" in the bottom right corner of page 4:
"Scoring: If a game ends without a group of balls being legally determined, the winner receives ten points and the opponent receives zero points."
Page 4 covers "Additional Rules" not listed in the Official VNEA Rulebook that are specific to the 33rd Annual VNEA World Championships. As such, this rule (and the others listed on page 4) may or may not be directly applicable to your local VNEA league play and/or your State VNEA tournament. However, why wouldn't play by the exact same rules as the national tournament?
http://www.vnea.com/Data/Sites/12/2013tournament/2013VegasDetails.pdf
"Scoring: If a game ends without a group of balls being legally determined, the winner receives ten points and the opponent receives zero points."
Page 4 covers "Additional Rules" not listed in the Official VNEA Rulebook that are specific to the 33rd Annual VNEA World Championships. As such, this rule (and the others listed on page 4) may or may not be directly applicable to your local VNEA league play and/or your State VNEA tournament. However, why wouldn't play by the exact same rules as the national tournament?
http://www.vnea.com/Data/Sites/12/2013tournament/2013VegasDetails.pdf
He had Stripes, the foul only occured after leagally making the shot. Had he shot at the Strip ball missed it entirely and hit the 8 in by accident then the table would have been open.
Black Cat
Black Cat
Nope, sorry. It doesn't matter when the foul occurs during the shot. Since he fouled, the entire shot is illegal. If the shot is illegal, he's not stripes.
By your logic, if he made the stripe, but scratched, he'd still be stripes because he "legally" made the stripe before he scratched?
By your logic, if he made the stripe, but scratched, he'd still be stripes because he "legally" made the stripe before he scratched?
Making the 8 out of order is by definition a foul. The penalty for which is loss of game. Scratching in a pocket is by definition a foul. The penalty for which is ball in hand. Any shot that includes a foul is not a legal shot.He had Stripes, the foul only occured after leagally making the shot. Had he shot at the Strip ball missed it entirely and hit the 8 in by accident then the table would have been open.
Black Cat
This this this this this. Really ...that.
We had this very situation happen to us this week - to a point, I wonder if you were at our league night but common sense prevails knowing our opponents...
this is great however to convince some hunyucks on a Tuesday night they're playing by the 2013 VNEA TOURNAMENT rules is easier said than done.
I don't buy the argument that you can split the shot into parts to say that the 8 went in after so it's 10-2.
I believe it would be 10-0 but in the micro-font rule book that we all seem to get to resolve these disputes, I don't see anything that talks about this specific situation or anything that doesn't make someone take a leap of understanding.
this is great however to convince some hunyucks on a Tuesday night they're playing by the 2013 VNEA TOURNAMENT rules is easier said than done.
I don't buy the argument that you can split the shot into parts to say that the 8 went in after so it's 10-2.
I believe it would be 10-0 but in the micro-font rule book that we all seem to get to resolve these disputes, I don't see anything that talks about this specific situation or anything that doesn't make someone take a leap of understanding.