What's The Call ?

1ab

1ab

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Player places cue ball 1" behind head string in preparation of break. During practice stroke, inadvertent cue ball contact moves cue ball 1/4". VNEA rules. Foul or no foul ?
 
By just about anyone's rules....forward motion of the tip contacting the CB and the CB rolling forward constitutes a hit. If it fails to reach the rack for a legal break, it's a foul and the break is forfeited.
 
ridewiththewind said:
By just about anyone's rules....forward motion of the tip contacting the CB and the CB rolling forward constitutes a hit. If it fails to reach the rack for a legal break, it's a foul and the break is forfeited.
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Whoa, not necessarily. Many leagues only recognize a game beginning AFTER the cueball passes the headstring. Unless VNEA has unique rules (not likely), this would not be a foul.
 
http://www.vnea.com/8-ball-rules.aspx

see H.4 When placing the cueball in position, any forward stroke motion contacting the cue ball will be a foul, if not a legal shot.

but you already know my opinion was the same.

-s

edit: there is no mention of 'crossing the headstring' in the section labelled break shot.
 
Actual instance, foul was called, break given to opponent by referee. Upon questioning head ref., response was that is a "gray" area, thus my query.
 
I would like to clarify, it's not a foul, just not a legal break. This situation is clearly outlined in section B.2 of the rules.

-s

edit: in most cases, I would use the option to let the player re-break when this happens :) once.
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
Whoa, not necessarily. Many leagues only recognize a game beginning AFTER the cueball passes the headstring. Unless VNEA has unique rules (not likely), this would not be a foul.
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In the ACS they have a rule that specifically reads, if the tip contacts the cue ball during a stroking motion it is a foul. The reason the rule reads as such is because people like to place the cue ball with their ferrule/tip adjusting position and in certain rules that contact is a foul. And I don't know what rules/area you are from, but a game should be considered started once the balls are racked, any accidental moving of the cue ball by way of stroking is a foul, and should be a foul. How bad of a shooter are you to think that it's ok to bump the cue ball and not think it's a foul?
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
How bad of a shooter are you to think that it's ok to bump the cue ball and not think it's a foul?
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lol, I never said it was okay. I'm simply following the rules. I posted that because the answer isn't always clear-cut and often it's important to review the specific rules of a league/tour. A lot of problems, especially in 9-ball, arise when you call this type of shot a foul. As well, in 14.1, there are common scenarios where you want your opponent to move the cueball out of the kitchen and a foul isn't a sufficient ruling.
 
I had this come up just a few months ago in a VNEA tournament. The other player touched the cue ball getting ready to break so I called foul, he argued and so we called a ref to get the verdict, this is what the ref had to say " at any time when you have BIH or have the break and have not broken yet, until you get into your shooting stance, touching the cueball with your tip is NOT a foul." So basically if you have BIH and are just standing there you can push the cueball all over the table with your tip, but once you get into your shooting stance, any contact with the cueball with your tip is a foul. I personally think this is freaking ridiculous because who is to say when someone is in their "official shooting stance" it needs to be clarified better in my opinion. This ruling came from Dave Rodgers...one of the head refs in Vegas for VNEA.
 
From the replies I gather there is uncertainty to when the game actually begins. The explanation of shooting stance is probably as close as it gets, relative to this rule set. It sure seems possible to better point out something specific as to the start.
 
1ab said:
From the replies I gather there is uncertainty to when the game actually begins. The explanation of shooting stance is probably as close as it gets, relative to this rule set. It sure seems possible to better point out something specific as to the start.
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I looked at the rules on the VNEA web site. I didn't see where they clarify the beginning of the game, only the beginning of the match. Our local VNEA league specifically states that the game does not begin until the cue ball crosses the head string on the break shot.

Using my interpretation of that, in our league it would still be your opponent's break. However in Las Vegas, I would probably take that one to a ref and I am guessing it would be your break...but who knows how it would get called.
 
Usually, if someone barely touches the cue ball on the break, I say, go ahead and shoot.. I don't care enough about it.. to be trying to steal someone's break.. seems rude to me, lol.
 
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