What's Wrong Here?

[cardiac kid]

OK Folks,

Tony Annigoni of the USPPA posted what I'd consider to be somewhat of a controversial statement regarding what "added money" is. Do any posters on this forum actually read what the tournament flyers state about payouts and where the money comes from other than me (and Tony)? Did anyone actually read Tony's post? It's still on the front page of this forum. I want to know exactly what money is available in the prize fund. I also check the payouts to the amounts stated on the flyer. Am I missing something? Does the average player just not care? We seem to shout and complain when a certain tip or cue type is banned. Or a new rule of play is instituted. Check the money in the event? Too busy!

Lyn

 

[Steve Lipsky]

OK Folks,

Tony Annigoni of the USPPA posted what I'd consider to be somewhat of a controversial statement regarding what "added money" is. Do any posters on this forum actually read what the tournament flyers state about payouts and where the money comes from other than me (and Tony)? Did anyone actually read Tony's post? It's still on the front page of this forum. I want to know exactly what money is available in the prize fund. I also check the payouts to the amounts stated on the flyer. Am I missing something? Does the average player just not care? We seem to shout and complain when a certain tip or cue type is banned. Or a new rule of play is instituted. Check the money in the event? Too busy!

Lyn

Lyn, can you please mention what the title of the thread is? I skimmed the first page and didn't see anything that would look like what you had mentioned. All I saw was something about an $18,000 added tournament but a quick look at the posts in that thread didn't reveal anything too controversial.

Sorry if I missed it.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[dardusm]

I've always checked the flyer of tournaments for the proper payouts etc. I've been burned several times over the years because of guaranteed top payouts, miscalculated payouts, etc. It's an interesting read especially about the room rebates. No wonder the tournaments want you to book your rooms with their code even though you can purchase the rooms cheaper via other means (such as the recent Vegas events).

With that said, I don't begrudge anyone making money on running an event. Promoting/directing a tournament can be a time consuming and exhausting affair. There is a tour in our area that advertises tournaments with added money. They take out a portion of the entry fee as an admin fee (they do not advertise this though). Some players have a problem with it, but they do a great job running the tournament and I view it as a cost of doing business (playing in the tournament).

There is a breaking point for me and I won't go to some of the tournaments just because it doesn't make much sense financially even though playing this game for me anyway doesn't make sense financially

 

[Carolina Blue]

It is not a thread. It is a story on the front page of AZ. Titled something like "USPPA defines added money."

Lyn, can you please mention what the title of the thread is? I skimmed the first page and didn't see anything that would look like what you had mentioned. All I saw was something about an $18,000 added tournament but a quick look at the posts in that thread didn't reveal anything too controversial.

Sorry if I missed it.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[cardiac kid]

With that said, I don't begrudge anyone making money on running an event. Promoting/directing a tournament can be a time consuming and exhausting affair. There is a tour in our area that advertises tournaments with added money. They take out a portion of the entry fee as an admin fee (they do not advertise this though). Some players have a problem with it, but they do a great job running the tournament and I view it as a cost of doing business (playing in the tournament).

Just think what might happen if the tour operators or tournament organizers made too little or lost money running events. Nowhere to play! I never begrudge someone the opportunity to make money. We need the BCAPL, VNEA, ACS, APA etc to make money. That goes for the Joss 9 Ball and all the other regional tours. I always try to remember they are all for profit organizations. That why they have dot com addresses instead of dot org. My answer is always play, don't play or start your own tour (OK, I stole that). Truthfully, I believe some of the tour operators are taking too little money out of the tours. Try doing the work (and travel) sometimes just to hear the continuous complaints. My hat is off to them. All I ask for is a little honesty!

Lyn

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Story on the front page of AZ Billiards

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=7709

It is a view of player's money in tournaments held in hotels where the promoter gets a percentage of the rooms booked by players using the promoter's code for reservations.

The article written by Tony Annigoni of the USPPA handicap pool league of Northern California and promoter of the last 20 or so Reno Sands Pro-Am events.

Tony has a new venue this year at the Peppermill in Reno for the Pro Am event. There are details about this also in the archives. This is (IIRC) a $50,000 added event with multiple disciplines and Poker involved.

It is an interesting read. I understand what Tony is saying.

My question to the pool players that subscribe to these events:

Do you care how much money the promoter gets or how he gets it? As long as you get a room (for a discounted price) and entry to the tournament(s) you choose and the payouts are as promised?

Do you really care?

 

[levartze]

Story on the front page of AZ Billiards

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=7709

It is a view of player's money in tournaments held in hotels where the promoter gets a percentage of the rooms booked by players using the promoter's code for reservations.

The article written by Tony Annigoni of the USPPA handicap pool league of Northern California and promoter of the last 20 or so Reno Sands Pro-Am events.

Tony has a new venue this year at the Peppermill in Reno for the Pro Am event. There are details about this also in the archives. This is (IIRC) a $50,000 added event with multiple disciplines and Poker involved.

It is an interesting read. I understand what Tony is saying.

My question to the pool players that subscribe to these events:

Do you care how much money the promoter gets or how he gets it? As long as you get a room (for a discounted price) and entry to the tournament(s) you choose and the payouts are as promised?

Do you really care?

VERY good point Tom.

 

[JB Cases]

I only check the payouts. If the payouts are interesting to me then that's what I base my decision on whether to play or not.

I could care less if the hotel cuts a check to the promoter for $10,000 which he pockets.

The deal I am making with the promoter is that I will show up and pay my entry fee and play. I want to get paid as soon as I finish the event and move on to the next one.

Someone in pool should take the time to define "guaranteed" because I think that this term is used a lot more loosely than "added money".

 

[alstl]

Story on the front page of AZ Billiards

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=7709

It is a view of player's money in tournaments held in hotels where the promoter gets a percentage of the rooms booked by players using the promoter's code for reservations.

The article written by Tony Annigoni of the USPPA handicap pool league of Northern California and promoter of the last 20 or so Reno Sands Pro-Am events.

Tony has a new venue this year at the Peppermill in Reno for the Pro Am event. There are details about this also in the archives. This is (IIRC) a $50,000 added event with multiple disciplines and Poker involved.

It is an interesting read. I understand what Tony is saying.

My question to the pool players that subscribe to these events:

Do you care how much money the promoter gets or how he gets it? As long as you get a room (for a discounted price) and entry to the tournament(s) you choose and the payouts are as promised?

Do you really care?

So long as the money made by the promoter isn't out of line with the prize money I don't see a problem. In the case of the WPBA and ESPN I think the network should put more money into the tour. ESPN is loaded with cash and the women are scraping to get by. That is not a healthy situation for the sport.

 

[JB Cases]

So long as the money made by the promoter isn't out of line with the prize money I don't see a problem. In the case of the WPBA and ESPN I think the network should put more money into the tour. ESPN is loaded with cash and the women are scraping to get by. That is not a healthy situation for the sport.

ESPN does not put any money into the sport in the first place. The WPBA pays for the production and then ESPN edits the footage to suit them.

Frankly we should not worry about how much the promoter is making. That negotiation should be between the players and the promoter if at all.

In the old days when they used to settle things by challenge match the players would argue for months over the percentage of the gate, how much to the winner.

If this is a truly capitalist endeavor then the only thing that the players should focus on is that the prize money is secure and that it's worth their time. Hopefully the promoter makes a TON of money so he or she will want to do it again and even bigger.

 

[levartze]

ESPN does not put any money into the sport in the first place. The WPBA pays for the production and then ESPN edits the footage to suit them.

Frankly we should not worry about how much the promoter is making. That negotiation should be between the players and the promoter if at all.

In the old days when they used to settle things by challenge match the players would argue for months over the percentage of the gate, how much to the winner.

If this is a truly capitalist endeavor then the only thing that the players should focus on is that the prize money is secure and that it's worth their time. Hopefully the promoter makes a TON of money so he or she will want to do it again and even bigger.

I agree 100%! As long as the winners get the posted amounts at the end of the tournament; if they don't like the payouts, they don't have to participate. The promoter shouldn't have to disclose how much they make and/or discuss if what they are doing is fair. If its not fair, most won't show up.