When does english reverse?

[owll]

Now, in this case, you are involving another ball. The spin of the cue ball is not changing. But some of the energy from the spin from the cue ball is transfered, in some form, to the object ball, causing it to spin (or appear to spin?) in the opposite direction. That may be an over-simplification, but makes my point. Also, if you are hitting it hard, that shortens the angle of bounce off the rail, and exaggerates the overall effect of the direction change of the object ball off that rail. Great shot to know.

Fatz[/QUOTE]

ya, some of the English transfers to the object ball, ive got inside (shorten the bank) English on the cue, I bank the ball to far side of side pocket, the ball comes back toward me into other side pocket (2 rail bank).

ive got inside enlish on bank. object should pull on first rail, and run on second...it doesn't, it pulls on both rails (somehow the English on object ball has reversed here).

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

ya, some of the English transfers to the object ball, ive got inside (shorten the bank) English on the cue, I bank the ball to far side of side pocket, the ball comes back toward me into other side pocket (2 rail bank).

ive got inside enlish on bank. object should pull on first rail, and run on second...it doesn't, it pulls on both rails (somehow the English on object ball has reversed here).

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about a two rail bank. Generally speaking, once a ball has side spin, that spin is not simply going to stop and reverse directions. Another force would have to be applied to the ball to change the spin that was caused by the original force. I have seen the shot you are talking about, but I am not saying I understand it. But contacting a rail is a probable place for forces to change.

EDIT: And I believe that the spin imparted to an object ball from contact with a spinning cue ball is much less than people realize in the first place (I believe the main effect there really is throw), so it wouldn't take much force to change the direction of the spin on the object ball.

This is a better question for Dr. Dave than me, that's for sure. I understand what was happening in the OP's scenario, so that's all I can say there.

Fatz

 

[owll]

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about a two rail bank. Generally speaking, once a ball has side spin, that spin is not simply going to stop and reverse directions. Another force would have to be applied to the ball to change the spin that was caused by the original force. I have seen the shot you are talking about, but I am not saying I understand it. But contacting a rail is a probable place for forces to change.

EDIT: And I believe that the spin imparted to an object ball from contact with a spinning cue ball is much less than people realize in the first place (I believe the main effect there really is throw), so it wouldn't take much force to change the direction of the spin on the object ball.

This is a better question for Dr. Dave than me, that's for sure. I understand what was happening in the OP's scenario, so that's all I can say there.

Fatz

ya i agree with you, and i dont understand why that bank works like that either.

 

[FranCrimi]

I would suggest that you practice this shot and experiment with the amount of right that you use. This is trickier than it looks. You can send the cb right on top of the 2 ball or even hit the 2 ball if you are a little off in your calculation. One of the arrows in the diagram shows that possibility correctly.

 

[bdorman]

I'm pretty slow, but I think I've got it now...thanks to all your help.

Here's how I have to visualize things in order to incorporate them:

Low right english on the CB causes a spin direction indicated by the arrow. The spin direction remains the same after the CB rebounds off the OB and comes back to the rail.

The spin direction doesn't reverse, the direction of the CB reverses (i.e. draw off the OB).

The spin direction is as though I'd hit the CB toward the rail from the other side with high-right english, which would be running english.

Fran, thanks for the caution but I don't have a draw stroke that will get the ball anywhere near that kind of trouble Wish I did.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

I'm pretty slow, but I think I've got it now...thanks to all your help.

Here's how I have to visualize things in order to incorporate them:

Low right english on the CB causes a spin direction indicated by the arrow. The spin direction remains the same after the CB rebounds off the OB and comes back to the rail.

The spin direction doesn't reverse, the direction of the CB reverses (i.e. draw off the OB).

The spin direction is as though I'd hit the CB toward the rail from the other side with high-right english, which would be running english.

Fran, thanks for the caution but I don't have a draw stroke that will get the ball anywhere near that kind of trouble Wish I did.

Yesssir, you got it.

 

[Bob 14:1]

A special "thank you" to the OP and all the respondents. :thumbup2:

Had I known how to do a table diagram, I'd have asked this identical question months ago.

It's just a perfect example of why this is such a great forum, as the sighted lead the blind through some tough areas.

This concept, for me, proved to have a "light bulb"/"ah ha" moment before it all fell into place.

With my new-found knowledge in hand, I proceeded to run downstairs and practice this principle. For the first two attempts, I still was hitting it with low left!!!! Just goes to show how, for a novice, things become so ingrained because they are counterintuitive to what we think should occur.