When the hell did the BCA 8-ball rules change?

zeeder

zeeder

Will queue for cues
Silver Member
Okay, I was at the pool hall this evening and I started playing partners 8-ball with some guys after I was a couple of sheets to the wind. I was discussing the rules with my partner and he said that BCA rules were call shot and I said the only thing that needed to be called is the 8, which is how it has been for as long as I can remember. Long story short, we bet on the outcome and he produces a BCA rule book that states that 8-ball is a call pocket game thus losing me the bet. The book was copyright 2003 so my question is, when the hell did the BCA change their rules to call pocket?!
 
I was in a BCA league about 10 years ago and as I recall you had to call a ball and a pocket on every shot unless you were playing safe. You did not have to call kisses, banks, or combinations.
 
In BCA & VNEA 8 ball is a call shot game, but obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated.
 
Been that way since I started playing BCA in the mid 90's.

When playing at the nationals, I would always make the agreement with my opponent before the match started that if the shot was obvious, you didn't have to call it. Never had any problems.
 
BCA has been that way for as long as I can remember. BCA rules are usually played on 9 foot tables and APA rules are played on 6ft and 7ft bar tables. APA rules are designed to speed up the game as fast as possible. More games played = more quarters put in the table. I think the only thing you have to call with BCA is the pocket. Not banks or caroms etc. If you make the ball in the pocket you call no matter which way it counts. I think we have an old poster on the wall from the mid 80s that has this rule. I thought the only change in 8 ball rules was if the object ball was behind the head line after a scratch then you had to hit the opposite rail before striking the ball. Now you spot the ball closest to the head line if you dont have a legal shot. Just how I remember it. Its late...maybe I am just tired.
 
If I am not mistaken, CPA rules are "call the 8 only" as well. It kind of favors the "banger" when you don't have to call every shot in 8-ball.
 
What about most tournament 8-ball, is that call pocket too? Have I just been completely wrong my entire pool playing life thinking that the major tounament rules in 8-ball were call 8 only?
 
zeeder said:
What about most tournament 8-ball, is that call pocket too? Have I just been completely wrong my entire pool playing life thinking that the major tounament rules in 8-ball were call 8 only?
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If I'm at a bar I always ask the person that won the table how they play because I swear every bar is different and they very rarely know BCA rules. I find it easier to play their game so as not to have any problems. I've only ever known two games of 8 ball (I've never played APA so I don't know their rules but I understand it to be slop).

I know of "called pocket" (BCA), and "call shot". Called pocket means you call a certain ball in a certain pocket... doesn't matter how it gets there (2 rails, off another ball, etc) so long as you make a good hit and make the ball in the pocket you called. I've found that most bar pool is played call shot. (they think anything else is slop) You must call exactly how the ball is going to go in the pocket... two rails, off another ball etc. LOL, playing bar pool I've called a ball clean in the corner pocket and while it was in route it grazed the rail before falling... I was told it was their shot because I didn't call that. :rolleyes:

I've never played 8 ball where you just hit a ball and if it falls in any pocket, you continue.
 
Timberly said:
If I'm at a bar I always ask the person that won the table how they play because I swear every bar is different and they very rarely know BCA rules. I find it easier to play their game so as not to have any problems. I've only ever known two games of 8 ball ...

I know of "called pocket" (BCA), and "call shot". Called pocket means you call a certain ball in a certain pocket... doesn't matter how it gets there (2 rails, off another ball, etc) so long as you make a good hit and make the ball in the pocket you called. I've found that most bar pool is played call shot. (they think anything else is slop) You must call exactly how the ball is going to go in the pocket... two rails, off another ball etc. LOL, playing bar pool I've called a ball clean in the corner pocket and while it was in route it grazed the rail before falling... I was told it was their shot because I didn't call that. :rolleyes:
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Call pocket is the way (usually) to avoid having someone start an argument about those tiny little kisses or grazing the rail or whatever that bar players like to get into fist fights (or knife fights or shootouts, or worse, over.) Ball-in-hand rules help to keep people honest also.

Some of the stuff I've seen is bars would make your hair stand up on end.

One time, a totally drunken guy started his Tom Cruise cue twirling routine, changed pace and got ready to break my skull with the butt, baseball bat style, while I was down on the 8 ball. Guess what I did? I potted the 8 and scratched in the side. Lost on purpose. The guy kept screaming I was a cop, and he had a warrant out for his arrest. Nothing I said could calm that turkey down. Glad I got out of there in just one piece.

Now, BCA rules or call pocket wouldn't have helped one whit in that circumstance, but most of the time they can save the day.

Flex
 
zeeder said:
Okay, I was at the pool hall this evening and I started playing partners 8-ball with some guys after I was a couple of sheets to the wind. I was discussing the rules with my partner and he said that BCA rules were call shot and I said the only thing that needed to be called is the 8, which is how it has been for as long as I can remember. Long story short, we bet on the outcome and he produces a BCA rule book that states that 8-ball is a call pocket game thus losing me the bet. The book was copyright 2003 so my question is, when the hell did the BCA change their rules to call pocket?!
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They changed over from non-call shot (call shot was an optional format) to call shot was in the late 80's, IIRC.

I've said this before, but I keep getting misread. The APA when it was first formed used rules that were pretty much in place among pros and players at that time. That is, when the APA was formed, call-shot 8-ball wasn't the norm. Slop shot was. That's why the APA is slop rules. It's not because it was designed to speed up the game or anything like that. It's because slop shot was standard at the time.

The professional World 8-ball Championships (by whoever was "sanctioning") well into the 80's was a
slop shot affair.

Fred
 
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1966 BCA rules

I've got a BCA rule book from 1966 that I pulled out to see what it said on this subject. Kind of interesting rules back then.

As others have said, only the 8 ball needed to be called.

15 ball must be pocketed in the left side, 1 ball in the right side. They must be spotted up if sunk in the wrong pocket until they’re sunk in the correct pocket.

No penalty for striking wrong suit first, in fact you can use your opponent's ball to combo one of yours in and it's a legal shot (unless shooting for the 8).

No mention of striking a rail after contacting an object ball either, except when shooting for the 8. In that case, either the 8 or the cue must strike a rail or its loss of game.

If a player has ball in hand and all his balls are behind the head string the ball nearest the string is spotted, same applies if he's shooting at the 8.

8 on the break is loss of game.

Things sure do change.
 
Steve - Detroit said:
I've got a BCA rule book from 1966 that I pulled out to see what it said on this subject. Kind of interesting rules back then.



Things sure do change.
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The 8-ball rules change every five or ten years, so it seems. I have BCA rulebooks from the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's. There are changes (minor to major) in all of them.

And then there are the 1948 rules (first year for BCA?) which also dictated the 1 and 15 in the side pocket.

Fred
 
zeeder said:
What about most tournament 8-ball, is that call pocket too? Have I just been completely wrong my entire pool playing life thinking that the major tounament rules in 8-ball were call 8 only?
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Ahhhh....another wasted life at the table.:cool:

I used to carry a photocopied rule sheet from the 80's BCA rulebook that says, call pocket.

Now can we get you to play some 8-ball at Dave's next summer? Maybe I'll have a chance?

Jeff Livingston
 
cueandcushion said:
...I think the only thing you have to call with BCA is the pocket. Not banks or caroms etc. If you make the ball in the pocket you call no matter which way it counts.
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Unfortunately, that is incorrect.

Per the BCA Rule Book for Tournament 8 Ball it states:

"4.2 CALL SHOT
In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent's right to ask which ball and pocket if he/she is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket."

I do think that the BCA needs to change the wording from 'Call Shot' to 'Call Pocket', as in true 'Call Shot' 8 Ball, every little thing must be called...including any possible contact with other balls or rails. Beleive it or not...if in 'Call Shot' you call the shot 'dirty', (contact with other balls or rails), and the object ball goes in 'clean', that is also considered a foul!! While I am not a huge fan of true 'Call Shot', if you play it enough, it can and will improve your game quite a bit.

Lisa
 
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ridewiththewind said:
Unfortunately, that is incorrect.

Per the BCA Rule Book for Tournament 8 Ball it states:

"4.2 CALL SHOT
In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent's right to ask which ball and pocket if he/she is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket."

I do think that the BCA needs to change the wording from 'Call Shot' to 'Call Pocket', as in true 'Call Shot' 8 Ball, every little thing must be called...including any possible contact with other balls or rails. Beleive it or not...if in 'Call Shot' you call the shot 'dirty', (contact with other balls or rails), and the object ball goes in 'clean', that is also considered a foul!! While I am not a huge fan of true 'Call Shot', if you play it enough, it can and will improve your game quite a bit.

Lisa
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Yeah, it looks to me like the BCA made a deliberate attempt to alter the definition of 'Call Shot' to look like 'Call Pocket'. I don't have the various generations of the BCA rules, so I can't claim that with certainty. For those that do have the various books, would be interesting to see what the earlier definitions of Call Pocket and/or Call Shot were.
 
cueandcushion said:
BCA has been that way for as long as I can remember. BCA rules are usually played on 9 foot tables and APA rules are played on 6ft and 7ft bar tables. APA rules are designed to speed up the game as fast as possible. More games played = more quarters put in the table. I think the only thing you have to call with BCA is the pocket.
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This is definitely a wrong assertion. I've seen plenty of BCA played on barbox (7 ft tables). This includes the BCA nationals tournaments in Las Vegas, which is played on bar boxes. And I've seen plenty of APA played on 9 ft tables and even on 8 ft tables. APA and BCA are the two largest pool leagues (respectively) of course. In order for that to occur, they conduct their leagues throughout the country wherever there are pool tables available. A large number of bar / pool establishments have bar box tables. Put two and two together and you'll see that APA, BCA, and even the other smaller leagues use plenty of bar boxes. Not very many establishments have room enough for the 9 ft tables, plus can almost put 2 bar boxes in place of a 9 ft (ratio is more like 3 bar boxes for two 9 ft tables), and in addition many people are much more accustomed to the quarters/coin op system and thus are more willing to contribute to them.

May have some personal reasons to disagree. But in general, this is the way the leagues are.
 
zeeder said:
Okay, I was at the pool hall this evening and I started playing partners 8-ball with some guys after I was a couple of sheets to the wind. I was discussing the rules with my partner and he said that BCA rules were call shot and I said the only thing that needed to be called is the 8, which is how it has been for as long as I can remember. Long story short, we bet on the outcome and he produces a BCA rule book that states that 8-ball is a call pocket game thus losing me the bet. The book was copyright 2003 so my question is, when the hell did the BCA change their rules to call pocket?!
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If that surprised you here is one that will knock your sox off. If you scratch on the 8 it is not a loss of game unless you pocket the 8. If you don’t make the 8 the incoming player has ball in hand. That was about ten years ago. (don't want you to lose another bet)

4.19 PLAYING THE 8-BALL
When the 8-ball is the legal object ball, a scratch or foul is not loss of game if the 8-ball is not pocketed or jumped from the table. Incoming player has cue ball in hand. Note: A combination shot can never be used to legally pocket the 8-ball, except when the 8-ball is the first ball contacted in the shot sequence.
 
zeeder said:
Okay, I was at the pool hall this evening and I started playing partners 8-ball with some guys after I was a couple of sheets to the wind. I was discussing the rules with my partner and he said that BCA rules were call shot and I said the only thing that needed to be called is the 8, which is how it has been for as long as I can remember. Long story short, we bet on the outcome and he produces a BCA rule book that states that 8-ball is a call pocket game thus losing me the bet. The book was copyright 2003 so my question is, when the hell did the BCA change their rules to call pocket?!
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For a brief history of the rules for eight ball, see the February 2002 article at: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

Among other things mentioned there, in 1980 the BCA was promoting the "casino" set of balls for eight ball which is seven reds, seven yellows, the eight ball and the cue ball. It is not possible to play call shot with such a set.
 
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