Which is the easier game?

[zeeder]

With all this talk of a potential IPT tour that will be featuring 8-ball instead of 9-ball I thought I'd pose the question: Which game do you think is easiest? Do you think one is easier to run than the other? What about saftey play and strategy?

I started out as a bar pool player, like I would imagine a lot of people did and like a true bar player put down 9-ball as a "slop" game and not "real" pool. Then I made the switch to the big tables and the pool hall and learned 9-ball and found that while slop plays a role, among good players that role is relatively small and that 8-ball is also a "slop" game in most touneys and leagues.

At this point if someone were going to ask me to play, 8-ball is the last game I would suggest. I just thought it would be interesting to get everyone's thoughts on the two.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Tough Question.....

You have asked a Trick Question as both game have advantages, and disadvantages

Nine Ball you got less congestion on the table, but you must shoot balls in order 1-9.

Eight ball you go more congestion on the table, but potentially you have more shot opportunities post break

 

[chefjeff]

To choose a shot in 8-ball requires more thought than it does in 9-ball. After the break, for example, you have up to 15 different shot choices. And after any one of those, you have a bunch more choices. And so on. I like this part of the game as it allows me to use my imagination to beat my opponent.

In 9-ball, the choice is 99% of the time made for me by the layout. Sure I could play safe or bank instead of hit straight in, but the next ball is always the next ball. Boring!

Jeff Livingston

 

[bud green]

To me, nine ball is a much harder game than eight ball. I like 8 ball and respect it more than a lot of die hard nineballers, but after practising pool with my opposite hand it quickly became obvious that I could run out a hell of a lot easier at eight ball than nine ball.

 

[CaptainJR]

I'd have to say 8 ball in a little more difficult but I'd also have to qualify that.

I think it depends on the break. If everything is open then I'd say that 8 ball is easier. If you have some trouble around I say that 9 ball is possibly a little easier especially since if you do get yourself in trouble you only have to hide the opponent from one ball.

In conclusion, since I think it is easier to get a wide open break in 9 ball I'd have to stick with 8 ball being a little tougher.

 

[Sweet Marissa]

Eight-ball is too easy... you always have several object balls to choose from. I like nine-ball because you have to think about shape, strategy, and defense.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Well with 8-ball, you have the element of your opponent's balls being left on the table to shoot around or your opponent's balls *not* being left on the table to shoot around.

So when playing a lesser skilled player, the game can be very difficult because they have all their "soldiers" blocking various shots.

But when playing a better player, they will typically run in most of their balls, then if you get a shot at the table, it can be fairly easy to run in most or all of your balls.

Then all the various rules - bar rules which are different by region, BCA, APA, different money tournament rules like no safeties allowed, etc. You can play the game differently depending on which rules you are using.

So I would say that 9-ball is sort of one dimensional (always same old thing - same rules most places) whereas 8-ball is multi-dimensional - can change like the weather. I think that makes 8-ball more interesting and more challenging to me. (Like playing in a "no safeties allowed" money tournament - how do I shoot a safety without appearing to shoot a safety, etc.)

 

[Jersey]

8-Ball all the way...

8-Ball is, IMHO the more difficult game, I believe it is the game closest to 14:1. You'll here of people stringing racks of 9-Ball together much more frequently than 8-Ball racks...ok, I posted in response to another thread that I ran a 4 pack last week!, but that was not the norm, and it was the only time this year that I've run more than 1 rack of 8-Ball...why do you think it's not on TV? To many choices, to many balls on the table, to many ways to get hooked.

 

[Sweet Marissa]

Well with 8-ball, you have the element of your opponent's balls being left on the table to shoot around or your opponent's balls *not* being left on the table to shoot around.

So when playing a lesser skilled player, the game can be very difficult because they have all their "soldiers" blocking various shots.

But this example applies to nine-ball also, as you have to shoot the lowest numbered ball around the others on the table. In addition, after pocketing that ball, you still need to get shape on the next object ball.

 

[TheGoldenChild]

Imo

I think 8 ball is a harder game because in nine ball you know what your shooting at, and in 8 ball it is up to you to create the patterns and choose the right shot. When you watch two pro's play the game you notice that there minds are focused on patterns and they tend to take more time to create the perfect out. JMO TGC

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

With all this talk of a potential IPT tour that will be featuring 8-ball instead of 9-ball I thought I'd pose the question: Which game do you think is easiest? Do you think one is easier to run than the other? What about saftey play and strategy?

I started out as a bar pool player, like I would imagine a lot of people did and like a true bar player put down 9-ball as a "slop" game and not "real" pool. Then I made the switch to the big tables and the pool hall and learned 9-ball and found that while slop plays a role, among good players that role is relatively small and that 8-ball is also a "slop" game in most touneys and leagues.

At this point if someone were going to ask me to play, 8-ball is the last game I would suggest. I just thought it would be interesting to get everyone's thoughts on the two.

For starters, I'd like to say that I think 8-ball should only be played on a 7' table and any time I make a reference to 8-ball (unless specified), it should be assumed that I'm talking about 7' tables.

8-ball is a beautiful game. Played correctly, it has elements similar to straight-pool, 9-ball and 1-pocket. It is one of the few games that taps all deciplines. Played correctly, it is not impossible to completely dominate a lower player. You simply don't see this in 9-ball until you get to the professional level. If you really know the game, it's possible to completely, utterly dominate in 8-ball. There is a level of mastery that is achieved through strategical knowledge. 9-ball, on the otherhand, taps the physical elements. You must execute precisely which, even for the best players, is hard to do at times.

With that said, 8-ball is the more difficult game to learn. 9-ball is the more difficult game to master. You can get away with a lot in 8-ball by playing two-way shots and blocking pockets. That horse won't fly in 9-ball. Get out or rack. It's that simple.

 

[Cane]

I find 8-Ball more difficult and more challenging to play. You are MUCH more likely to have clusters after a break, you have your opponents balls in the way, safeties are much more difficult to play and must be played with more precision, because of the mulitiple shot selections your opponent may have, and IMHO, there really is no pattern strategy in 9-Ball... simply shoot in rotation, whereas with 8-Ball, there are a multitude of possible patterns that must lead to a link ball. When playing 9-Ball, which I do enjoy, BTW, I tend to think 3 balls ahead and that's it. In 8-Ball, I look for my best link ball and work backwards from there to my first ball. In other words, I'm looking at the entire runout, not just at 3 balls.

In 9-Ball, you play to run out. In 8-Ball, you play to not give your opponent an oppurtunity to run out. 9-Ball is more of a shotmaking game, 8-Ball is more of a strategy game.

One more thing that to me makes it more difficult... How you play the clusters. I've mentioned that you are likely to have more clusters, but when playing 9-Ball, if you have a cluster, you want to break up that entire cluster. Many times in 8-Ball, you want to just scrape one ball off the stack, clearing your's and leaving your opponents balls in the stack. This requires much more thought and precision than just driving the cue ball into a cluster and scattering it out.

Later,
Bob

 

[Barbara]

For starters, I'd like to say that I think 8-ball should only be played on a 7' table and any time I make a reference to 8-ball (unless specified), it should be assumed that I'm talking about 7' tables.

8-ball is a beautiful game. Played correctly, it has elements similar to straight-pool, 9-ball and 1-pocket. It is one of the few games that taps all deciplines. Played correctly, it is not impossible to completely dominate a lower player. You simply don't see this in 9-ball until you get to the professional level. If you really know the game, it's possible to completely, utterly dominate in 8-ball. There is a level of mastery that is achieved through strategical knowledge. 9-ball, on the otherhand, taps the physical elements. You must execute precisely which, even for the best players, is hard to do at times.

With that said, 8-ball is the more difficult game to learn. 9-ball is the more difficult game to master. You can get away with a lot in 8-ball by playing two-way shots and blocking pockets. That horse won't fly in 9-ball. Get out or rack. It's that simple.

Jude,

Very well said about 8-ball being a beautiful game when played correctly, but when also played on a 9-foot table, it's a lot of fun! Let's just split hairs and say it should always be played on 8-footers.

Barbara

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude,

Very well said about 8-ball being a beautiful game when played correctly, but when also played on a 9-foot table, it's a lot of fun! Let's just split hairs and say it should always be played on 8-footers.

Barbara

My only reason for saying it should be played on small tables has to do with run-outs. An A player can string together a 9-pack if he's breaking well. 7-footers make it all about strategy.

 

[lewdo26]

For starters, I'd like to say that I think 8-ball should only be played on a 7' table and any time I make a reference to 8-ball (unless specified), it should be assumed that I'm talking about 7' tables.

8-ball is a beautiful game. Played correctly, it has elements similar to straight-pool, 9-ball and 1-pocket. It is one of the few games that taps all deciplines. Played correctly, it is not impossible to completely dominate a lower player. You simply don't see this in 9-ball until you get to the professional level. If you really know the game, it's possible to completely, utterly dominate in 8-ball. There is a level of mastery that is achieved through strategical knowledge. 9-ball, on the otherhand, taps the physical elements. You must execute precisely which, even for the best players, is hard to do at times.

With that said, 8-ball is the more difficult game to learn. 9-ball is the more difficult game to master. You can get away with a lot in 8-ball by playing two-way shots and blocking pockets. That horse won't fly in 9-ball. Get out or rack. It's that simple.

Jude and a couple other old-timers seem to be the only ones that appreciate 8 ball strategy as much as I do. Suffice it to say that the posters who say 8 ball is "easy because you can shoot at many balls" (and what about straight pool?) wouldn't have a prayer against Jude or any other knowledgeable 8 baller.

That's why I say it will be very educational to see Mike Sigel, in the IPT, PASS UP on various open shots with ball in hand to bank one of the balls from his group to a break ball position to open up a cluster. That is why I'm rooting for it to work out.

By the way, Jude, do you give barbox 8 ball lessons?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude and a couple other old-timers seem to be the only ones that appreciate 8 ball strategy as much as I do. Suffice it to say that the posters who say 8 ball is "easy because you can shoot at many balls" (and what about straight pool?) wouldn't have a prayer against Jude or any other knowledgeable 8 baller.

That's why I say it will be very educational to see Mike Sigel, in the IPT, PASS UP on various open shots with ball in hand to bank one of the balls from his group to a break ball position to open up a cluster. That is why I'm rooting for it to work out.

By the way, Jude, do you give barbox 8 ball lessons?

I do but never have formally. I would teach my friends when interesting situations came-up. Much would depend on your skill level as to how effective a teacher I'd be. Steve Lipsky (also from NYC) is probably the best barbox player I've ever seen. He'd probably be the best to contact.


If you want to come up to Amsterdam Billiards, I'd be happy to give an informal lesson so long as you pick-up the time. If you think you gained a lot out of it and want to continue, we can set something up. Do you play in an 8-ball league and if so, what's your skill level?

 

[Pete]

My 2 cents.

I play 8 ball and love 9 ball (leagues). I think 8 ball is a much more forgiving game, at the early stages of a player (D-high C or even B), but 9 ball isn't very forgiving, if you boble a shot, you might o f lost that game and the next 2 against a strong C, but in 8 ball not only is it possable to come back but it is possable that that same mustake gives you the win for that game and maybe the next 2 at the C player level.

8 ball is more about planning, removing trouble balls and then running out (there is more to it but that's a start). 9 Ball is about all that and PERFORMANCE, that's why I think it's much more taxing on the player.

Pete

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

My 2 cents.

I play 8 ball and love 9 ball (leagues). I think 8 ball is a much more forgiving game, at the early stages of a player (D-high C or even B), but 9 ball isn't very forgiving, if you boble a shot, you might o f lost that game and the next 2 against a strong C, but in 8 ball not only is it possable to come back but it is possable that that same mustake gives you the win for that game and maybe the next 2 at the C player level.

8 ball is more about planning, removing trouble balls and then running out (there is more to it but that's a start). 9 Ball is about all that and PERFORMANCE, that's why I think it's much more taxing on the player.

Pete

You make some interesting points. I think another way of looking at it is, in 9-ball, your objective every time you're at the table is to run-out and it's usually obvious when you can't. In 8-ball, your objective is to properly evaluate the situation BEFORE you attempt to run-out and if you don't have a greenlight to start pocketing balls, what can you do to improve your chances while deminishing your opponent's.

 

[lewdo26]

I do but never have formally. I would teach my friends when interesting situations came-up. Much would depend on your skill level as to how effective a teacher I'd be. Steve Lipsky (also from NYC) is probably the best barbox player I've ever seen. He'd probably be the best to contact.


If you want to come up to Amsterdam Billiards, I'd be happy to give an informal lesson so long as you pick-up the time. If you think you gained a lot out of it and want to continue, we can set something up. Do you play in an 8-ball league and if so, what's your skill level?

Jude, I play in the team 9 ball league and we have talked before. I'm in Charles Alexander's and Ron Vitello's team, and when our teams played this season, I played your C player. You may remember...

Something informal would actually be best for me. I read Phil Capelle's book on 8 ball and fell in love with the strategy. Unfortunately, I don't think I'd learn much from the 8 ball league at ABC.

I don't think I'd take regular lessons with Lipsky simply because 8 ball knowledge has limited applicability in tournaments (I think the Tri-State only hosts one 8 ball tournament per season). I'm also going through a few personal problems we can discuss later, and taking regular lessons would be difficult at the moment.

If you're ok with it, I could come up to you next Thursday or any other time we cross paths at ABC. Then we can talk about setting something up.

 

[CantEverWin]

8-ball = Chess 9- ball = Checkers

Any game that increses an inning count is harder to win at. Any time you let a player to the table they have a chance to win. Slim or not. So there for when you leave the table you better damn sure know that they arent getting out.

If you take two players and have them play a set of 8 ball, and a set of 9 ball. Which do you think would have a higher inning count?
We APA people know the answer to that i'm sure.

9 ball might be harder to play, but 8 ball is definately harder to win.

Mike