Which shaft applies the most spin?

[PoolSharkAllen]

1) As long as you don't use extreme english on everyshot its not going to make a big difference which shaft you use. I don't think any shaft is going to put that much more spin on the ball that it will matter.

2) I always hear people say that even though the predator produce less squirt all shafts deflect so just get used to it. I agree, you can play well with pretty much any cue but lets compare that to something else. Imagine you are shooting a riffle at a target 500 yards away and you have either a 5 mph cross wind or a 50 mph cross wind. Its the same shot except you just have to compensate a lot more. An accomplished shooter could pull off the shot under both conditions but which conditions would you rather being shooting in?

My first cue was a predator so I've stuck with using them because that is what I learned to use and therefore I am more comfortable using predator. I've tried OB-1 and like the feel and didn't notice any difference in deflection compared to the 314^2. I do like the fact that you can buy any cue you want and put a predator shaft on it and it will play just like the last one without having to get used to the new cue.

I can use a house cue or a friends schon and still play pretty much the same speed as with the predator I use all the time. Its just a few shots that rarely come up that I can preform better with the stick I'm more in tune with.

It bothers me a little when people bash people for using predator cues on custom butts. Its all a matter of opinion and you can't argue with opinion, at least not intelligently. The fact is that predator and other high tech shafts produce less squirt than more conventional shafts. Some people like the low squirt shafts and others don't but you don't have to knock other people just because they don't like the same stuff you do.

Just this past Saturday, I was at a billiards store trying out two Predator demo cues. One Predator cue had the 314-1 shaft and the other had a Z-1 shaft. To do my comparison between cues, I set-up specific, repeatable shots and then tried comparing the "performance" of the two Predators against my Joss cue that I normally play with. Despite playing with both Predator cues for 30 minutes I couldn't really see a noticeable performance difference the two Predator cues and my Joss cue.

This made me wonder if there is any way that one can qualitatively test a new cue against their regular playing cue? Was there something wrong with the comparison test that I tried to do between the Predator and Joss cues?

 

[ShaneT58]

Just this past Saturday, I was at a billiards store trying out two Predator demo cues. One Predator cue had the 314-1 shaft and the other had a Z-1 shaft. To do my comparison between cues, I set-up specific, repeatable shots and then tried comparing the "performance" of the two Predators against my Joss cue that I normally play with. Despite playing with both Predator cues for 30 minutes I couldn't really see a noticeable performance difference the two Predator cues and my Joss cue.

This made me wonder if there is any way that one can qualitatively test a new cue against their regular playing cue? Was there something wrong with the comparison test that I tried to do between the Predator and Joss cues?

I have no idea what you were testing or the shots you were doing so its kind hard for me to say if there was something wrong with your comparison and I'm not an expert. One explanation could be that you are lucky enough to have a normal shaft that does not produce a lot of CB squirt.

I have tested several predator cues and found they produce less squirt than most conventional cues. I thought it was widely accepted that this was true based on other measurements as well ie. platinum billiards results. The argument usually is about whether reduced squirt is an advantage especially when a lot of people don't like the "feel" of predator cues.

As far as spin goes, I don't think there is much difference in the amount of spin you can put on a ball between different shafts, at least not the ones I've tested. My simple test for spin is to put the ball on the spot and shoot with maximun side so that the cueball hits the middle diamond between the side and corner pocket. Its easy to observe where the ball comes back and hits the opposite rail. There is no noticeable difference when using a 314^2, 314, OB-1, Scruggs (all with moori med tips), or a house cue with some random tip (most likely elk master). The deflection between my Scruggs and the OB-1 and predator shafts is very noticeable. I gotta say I love the way the Scruggs feels though. Just my 2 cents your mileage may vary.

If you are trying to test the squirt produced by a cue then a lot of people try to find the pivot point of the cue and relate that to squirt I never had much success with that method. If you search the posts I've made you can find a test I made up to test the difference between a Varney modified 314 and an unmodified 314. The test isn't perfect but I think its good enough.

 

[sky..]

2) I always hear people say that even though the predator produce less squirt all shafts deflect so just get used to it. I agree, you can play well with pretty much any cue but lets compare that to something else. Imagine you are shooting a riffle at a target 500 yards away and you have either a 5 mph cross wind or a 50 mph cross wind. Its the same shot except you just have to compensate a lot more. An accomplished shooter could pull off the shot under both conditions but which conditions would you rather being shooting in?

Isn't 5 vs. 50 too big of a difference? I know you exaggerated to show your point but, predator does not even cut deflection by half. So a more proper scenario would be 5mph vs. 8mph, which I *think* hardly matters.

 

[ShaneT58]

Isn't 5 vs. 50 too big of a difference? I know you exaggerated to show your point but, predator does not even cut deflection by half. So a more proper scenario would be 5mph vs. 8mph, which I *think* hardly matters.

Yes, it was an exaggeration to help demonstrate the point better. Intuitively it still seems that the smaller the size of the correction you have to make the easier it is to make the correction. I could be wrong though. I'm not trying to convert anybody to using either kind of shaft. I think it really doesn't matter. There are people that play at a very high level with and without the low squirt shafts. It just bothers me when people bash other people for using them. Like saying it makes no sense to put a predator on a custom cue. Custom just means created to the purchasers specs, and some want it with a low squirt shaft and some don't.

Edit. I almost forgot. They claim the Z^2 shaft does reduce squirt by 51%.

 

[Koop]

Wimpy,

This is my thoughts on after market shafts. You just bought a very nice Espiritu custom cue, and i believe it came with 2 shafts?

Why not just use those shafts instead of buying a OB1 or I2 or Z2, or Xshaft?

I mean if you wanted a aftermarket shaft hit/feel, you could have easily saved yourself alot of money and just bought the basic McDermott cue or Predator cue.

I've had a couple Espiritu cues and never had a problem applying english with the shaft that it came with.

Plus, whats the point of buying a CUSTOM cue, if you just going to go and put some after market predator, or xshaft on the cue?

It's like buying a Gilbert, or josswest, southwest, Scruggs, Hercek, or whatever custom cue maker and telling them to match a 314 shaft to the cue.

And dont give me the whole well, I cant get usta the shaft that comes with the cue crap. If that is the case then sell the Espiritu and go and buy a Predator cue, or a Tiger cue.

Maybe because he wants a nice custom butt?
Also, and speaking for myself, not too many custom makers can make a shaft heavy enough for me. I like them to be around 4.5oz. Try finding one, they are very hard to come by.
On the other hand, I can take any Universal Smart Shaft with the brass insert and it is damn near on the nose perfect, for me.
Different strokes for different folks.

Wimpy,

I wouldn't put much stock in which shaft will induce the most spin. As others have said it has more to do with your tip placement and mechanics, i.e. stroke and follow-through.
Good mechanics will require less of an offset from center while still producing as much spin as you want.

Good luck.