While on the subject, relief for inlay

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm inlaying some ivory diamonds into some cocobolo windows on a hand built panto, to go In a butt sleeve on a cue I'm working on. They fit very well after hand fitting, but when I go to glue them up they want to try and lock. It's like the the fit is too tight for glue. They would press fit, but I don't trust It.
I understand that some press fit cnc inlays, and they seem to hold up, but has anyone been able to press fit pantomill inlays without them poping out? I would hate to summit to glue lines by making room for glue if the thing fits them that tight. They would probably split if forced with glue. any thin glue for this I should be aware of?
I also want to try the epoxy dye method of trimming a window. does anyone know What epoxy is hard enough to polish up and not pull out when turned?

Thanks Guys,

Greg
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
[How deep are your pockets & how much oversize is the butt from your finished size?...JER
Click to expand...




I have one sanded to thickness as a model for the rest that are already milled and glued, and it's under 160 deep on the window & diamond as a unit, I do not remember off the top head on the other, as I pulled the measurements off a butt I liked a few months ago when I actually milled them out, just getting back to It now. I can pull them and give them to you, but if curious about whether I will thin them out, I did figure It out at the time I milled the sleeve, so hopefully they should be alright. I also remilled the pocket for the epoxy trim around the window that fits snug in the bottom slot to hold It firmly in place and centered. My trim slot ended up being around 60 wide, so kind of concerned It might be too wide and the black epoxy trim might pull out when I turn It, not really if it will thin the inlay out, also concerned that If I try to use more hardener to get it to buff out better, It won't stick as good. Wondering what epoxy is best suited for this type thing, and would buff out nice and black before clear coat. I have powders for color.

Thanks
Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I have one sanded to thickness as a model for the rest that are already milled and glued, and it's under 160 deep on the window & diamond as a unit, I do not remember off the top head on the other, as I pulled the measurements off a butt I liked a few months ago when I actually milled them out, just getting back to It now. I can pull them and give them to you, but if curious about whether I will thin them out, I did figure It out at the time I milled the sleeve, so hopefully they should be alright. I also remilled the pocket for the epoxy trim around the window that fits snug in the bottom slot to hold It firmly in place and centered. My trim slot ended up being around 60 wide, so kind of concerned It might be too wide and the black epoxy trim might pull out when I turn It, not really if it will thin the inlay out, also concerned that If I try to use more hardener to get it to buff out better, It won't stick as good. Wondering what epoxy is best suited for this type thing, and would buff out nice and black before clear coat. I have powders for color.

Thanks
Greg
Click to expand...


More hardner will not make the epoxy harder. Much of the epoxy hardner is filler if you are using an off the shelf 1 to 1 mix epoxy.
 
Cue Crazy said:
I'm inlaying some ivory diamonds into some cocobolo windows on a hand built panto, to go In a butt sleeve on a cue I'm working on. They fit very well after hand fitting, but when I go to glue them up they want to try and lock. It's like the the fit is too tight for glue. They would press fit, but I don't trust It.
Click to expand...

You could inlay the sleeve before you attach it to the handle. That way you could drill relief holes straight down to the center bore of the sleeve. Then rebore to clean out the excess epoxy that accumulated in the bore.

Tracy
 
Cue Crazy said:
I'm inlaying some ivory diamonds into some cocobolo windows on a hand built panto, to go In a butt sleeve on a cue I'm working on. They fit very well after hand fitting, but when I go to glue them up they want to try and lock. It's like the the fit is too tight for glue. They would press fit, but I don't trust It.
I understand that some press fit cnc inlays, and they seem to hold up, but has anyone been able to press fit pantomill inlays without them poping out? I would hate to summit to glue lines by making room for glue if the thing fits them that tight. They would probably split if forced with glue. any thin glue for this I should be aware of?
I also want to try the epoxy dye method of trimming a window. does anyone know What epoxy is hard enough to polish up and not pull out when turned?

Thanks Guys,

Greg
Click to expand...
I can get them tight enough with pantomill to have to use an arbor press to get them in. I can do the same with my CNC. Get an arbor press if you don't already have one and it will solve alot of your problem. Press them in real slow so you don't split the cue out.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
 
cueman said:
I can get them tight enough with pantomill to have to use an arbor press to get them in. I can do the same with my CNC. Get an arbor press if you don't already have one and it will solve alot of your problem. Press them in real slow so you don't split the cue out.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
Click to expand...

Here is something interesting. If you are doing wood inlays you can cut then almost the same as the pocket to where they won't go in. Then put them in a microwave for a few seconds and they will shrink and press right in when they return to their original size they are like part of the base piece of wood. I still put a little glue on the back of the inlay also.
 
Thanks for the input guys, alot of really interesting Ideas.


I ended up getting the ivory diamonds glued in the coco windows. Was a little tricky, But I think I pulled It off, still have to sand the thickness on the rest before I know how good they turned out. What I used was a small end mill and and a chisel type exacto. I ever so slightly grazed what I could in the pocket without digging in with the exacto, and used the end mill in tougher to get areas. Since these paticular diamonds were sanded in, the corners allowed for this, besides that the end mill was very small. This allowed Me enough room to get a skim coat of glue down and just barely press them in by hand with the help of a tool used kind of as a arbor, only using good arm and weight pressure. I do need an arbor press of some sort. think I have an idea of how to make something with some parts I have, but for what they cost should just buy one.
I am inlaying these as a sleeve first, the handle/forearm are attatched, but still needs another turn before I even put It on. the relief under the pocket does not seem to be a problem, I Think It's the sidewall tolerence. I don't think every material would be that tight, The stylus I turned down from a blank, just for the fit of this ivory into cocobolo inlay, must have hit right on the money with these 2 materials, because altough tight, they will fit with no glue If pressed, but even just wetting the side wall and scraping any excess glue locks them up and will cause a split. The way I made the template for the male coco window, I was able to stack them because they have no bottom. This allowed Me to do the pocket for the ivory diamond at the same time I cut the cocobolo window It went into. This also made all the windows the same with all the diamonds centered the same in each. So basically those are a unit now that I will inlay in the sleeve. My panto is smooth enough that I can ride the outside of the template design on male parts without the need for a 60 deg. stylus, so the template does not have to have a bottom. This only works on My handmade temps, Or any I transfer over, because the diamond template is actually on the bottom of the one for the coco window, therefore cannot have a bottom on the window template. Needs to be open to reach the diamond shape. The bonus is I can mill the female and male at the same time, adjust my milling table to the next inlay and do another, without moving My templates. I could make a single template from those if I want to use a 60 deg. later on.
Have not heard of a microwave, will have to try It, seems like It would expand to me. Maybe has something to do with cooking inside out. The freezer works for getting test fits loose when the stick too tight to get back out, but moisture might would be a problem when glueing them in I would imagine.
So, anyway thats ready, and the pockets are cut in the sleeve. I decided before, that I wanted a black border around it, and did not inlay it ahead of time, so that's why the black epoxy border. I cut the pocket in the sleeve to total depth to fit the the inlay tight, brought My depth up and routed the trim area around the inlay to be filled, with a larger bit. I might have changed stylus's, but don't remember for sure, as it's been a while since I did the pockets for this sleeve. Just getting back to do some more work on it. I got to start writing this stuff down in a log when I do It for reference.
Guess I am going to just glue them in the sleeve and fill the trim slot with the mix on one window at a time, to keep them as level as possible. kind of worried about the darkness of the color changing from window to window if not all mixed in the same batch. Wondering If these powders Have to be measured precisly from batch to batch, or if It makes no difference in the tint of the black, as long as I get enough powder in the epoxy to color it? don't want to have different shades of trim. Also Still not sure which epoxy is best for filling trim like this? I have several types. Maybe I will do some test tries first.



Thanks again Guys, All Your input is Very apprietiated as always.

Greg
 
Follow up,

Ok, As I mentioned previously, have the ivory diamonds inlayed in the windows, I also thickness sanded them. looks as if I got through the hand work i did to the pocket, without creating any unsightly glue lines. Probably My best yet. I now have them glued up in the pockets of the butt sleeve. All I have to do is fill the trim slot around the windows with the colored epoxy. kind of wish I would have just inlayed the window straight into the sleeve and skipped the epoxy trim thing, but here I am anyway.
I have several types of epoxy that I work with at this time. The 2 main being system three, structural, and quick cure.
On the structural- As most know, It dries softer and is great for internal parts that you don't want to rattle or get briddle over time, and develop rattles. It turns a yellowish color from the hardener I believe, but besides that Is too soft and gummy for the trim fill IMO.
The quick cure on the other hand, I used some of last night to show the old man My technic for ferrel replacement, and seems to dry harder and is clearer also, It seems more desirable to me for this type of trim. I am really concidering going with It. Wondering If anyone thinks this is not suitable? Of coarse I would have to work faster with it, But should be able pull It off before It kicks, if I stay with filling the trim in one window at a time, and the powders don't cause It to kick too much faster than usual.
Have several types of devcon also, but usually only use them when trying to spare My system three products.
Anyway Guess I am trying the quick cure. Anything I should be aware of for cleaning, as to get The epoxy to stick better? Don't want to use anything oily that will stain the wood and make sticking tougher. Is acetone good for this? Might be overthinking this as I probably do not need to do this, just trying to cover My bases.
The best way I can describe the shape of the windows is, they are something like the cue in the far right of the pictures of cues, that zims rack has up for sale. The difference being that the windows are skinnier, the diamonds are smaller, as well as rounded inward instead of straight. Also they will be bordered with the black epoxy trim. Ofcoarse the colors will be different also.

Thanks Guys,
Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
Follow up,

Ok, As I mentioned previously, have the ivory diamonds inlayed in the windows, I also thickness sanded them. looks as if I got through the hand work i did to the pocket, without creating any unsightly glue lines. Probably My best yet. I now have them glued up in the pockets of the butt sleeve. All I have to do is fill the trim slot around the windows with the colored epoxy. kind of wish I would have just inlayed the window straight into the sleeve and skipped the epoxy trim thing, but here I am anyway.
I have several types of epoxy that I work with at this time. The 2 main being system three, structural, and quick cure.
On the structural- As most know, It dries softer and is great for internal parts that you don't want to rattle or get briddle over time, and develop rattles. It turns a yellowish color from the hardener I believe, but besides that Is too soft and gummy for the trim fill IMO.
The quick cure on the other hand, I used some of last night to show the old man My technic for ferrel replacement, and seems to dry harder and is clearer also, It seems more desirable to me for this type of trim. I am really concidering going with It. Wondering If anyone thinks this is not suitable? Of coarse I would have to work faster with it, But should be able pull It off before It kicks, if I stay with filling the trim in one window at a time, and the powders don't cause It to kick too much faster than usual.
Have several types of devcon also, but usually only use them when trying to spare My system three products.
Anyway Guess I am trying the quick cure. Anything I should be aware of for cleaning, as to get The epoxy to stick better? Don't want to use anything oily that will stain the wood and make sticking tougher. Is acetone good for this? Might be overthinking this as I probably do not need to do this, just trying to cover My bases.
The best way I can describe the shape of the windows is, they are something like the cue in the far right of the pictures of cues, that zims rack has up for sale. The difference being that the windows are skinnier, the diamonds are smaller, as well as rounded inward instead of straight. Also they will be bordered with the black epoxy trim. Ofcoarse the colors will be different also.

Thanks Guys,
Greg
Click to expand...

Are you using the epoxy as an inlay? You can get a product called inlace http://www.turtlefeathers.com/text/inlace/inlace-main.html
that will let you make inlays without cutting the inlay just the pocket. A lot of wood turners use it to dress up their turnings.
 
macguy said:
Are you using the epoxy as an inlay? You can get a product called inlace http://www.turtlefeathers.com/text/inlace/inlace-main.html
that will let you make inlays without cutting the inlay just the pocket. A lot of wood turners use it to dress up their turnings.
Click to expand...


Thanks for turning me on to the cool link. I have seen simular in the guitar/Instrument as well as others. have not seen that paticular site though. they sure do have some interesting colors. can think of all kinds of ways to dress stuff up with that. Might have to hook up with some to play around with.
That's basically what I'm doing, except using to border/trim a real inlay in a thin strip of black with it. I have black dye powder for the color. it's not something I have to do, just playing around with it for the experience.
After I glued the real inlay in and saw what they would look like without the black, kind of made we wish I would have saved that part for another project. Oh well, live and learn. Maybe it will turn out better then I expect.
 
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