White Epoxy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fred Agnir
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Fred Agnir

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A friend has asked me to replace a ferrule on his fiberglass-clad Cuetec. Apparently, whoever tried to put a tip on it used either a Willard's or Porper setup, and torqued a ring on the ferrule. There are also some other deep grooves and scratches, but other than that, the ferrule seems like it's still intact.

Have you cuemakers used some kind of white epoxy to fill in something similar to these grooves and scratches rather than replace the ferrule?

Fred
 
Fred Agnir said:
A friend has asked me to replace a ferrule on his fiberglass-clad Cuetec. Apparently, whoever tried to put a tip on it used either a Willard's or Porper setup, and torqued a ring on the ferrule. There are also some other deep grooves and scratches, but other than that, the ferrule seems like it's still intact.

Have you cuemakers used some kind of white epoxy to fill in something similar to these grooves and scratches rather than replace the ferrule?

Fred

I would never fill in a groove at the ferrule, I would change it. To many different shades of white plus it's a high maintenance area as far as always touching the cloth, Ever see the ferrules from someone who strokes bottom English and burns the ferrule on the cloth.
 
Fred Agnir said:
A friend has asked me to replace a ferrule on his fiberglass-clad Cuetec. Apparently, whoever tried to put a tip on it used either a Willard's or Porper setup, and torqued a ring on the ferrule. There are also some other deep grooves and scratches, but other than that, the ferrule seems like it's still intact.

Have you cuemakers used some kind of white epoxy to fill in something similar to these grooves and scratches rather than replace the ferrule?

Fred

I've never tried filling any ferrules but on a M/P type ferrule the scratches and cuts can usually be eliminated. Multi-polymer plastics such as meucci and a lot of foreign cues melts at a low temperature and can be reformed as compared to phonelics which will take much more heat but once this is reached they degrade quickly. You can take a piece of used sandpaper around 320 grit and sand the ferrule using some pressure, this heats up the ferrule and flows the material into the scratches without actually taking any off the diameter. Good for a last resort.
Dick
 
Fred Agnir said:
A friend has asked me to replace a ferrule on his fiberglass-clad Cuetec. Apparently, whoever tried to put a tip on it used either a Willard's or Porper setup, and torqued a ring on the ferrule. There are also some other deep grooves and scratches, but other than that, the ferrule seems like it's still intact.

Have you cuemakers used some kind of white epoxy to fill in something similar to these grooves and scratches rather than replace the ferrule?

Fred

I too would replace the ferrule rather than try to fill the groove. If you have the correct equipment it is easier and probably faster.
 
Fred
Just in case you have trouble, I think Barry Cameron is close to you, I can give you his number if you like , He does good quality work.
 
Michael Webb said:
Fred
Just in case you have trouble, I think Barry Cameron is close to you, I can give you his number if you like , He does good quality work.

Thank you for the offer, Mike. I've known Barry for several years and he is a friend of mine. In fact, it was Barry who taught me how to install a ferrule.

I was simply asking if anyone has used white epoxy on a grooved ferrule. Since I'm doing a little bondo filling on an auto project, that's what got me thinking about it.

Fred
 
billfishhead said:
replace it,,,,,,,,,,,,omg, how much can a ferrule cost????? do it right
What'd I do, stir up the Ferrule Manufacturing Society's britches?

I've got more ferrules than I know what to do with, thank you. I just wanted to know if anyone has ever done it or considered it. Sheesh. I didn't defend it, or said anything about it's worthiness. And I get this type of response??? Did you read something that was so offensive? If you haven't thought about filling scratches, then thank you. You haven't. I got the answer to my question.


It's a friggin' Cuetec. Why not replace the whole friggin' cue? That was my suggestion.


Fred

P.S., for anyone who gives a sh*t and is not too busy berating me, the ferrule was a thermoplastic. Maybe I should have given Dick Neighbors' thoughts a try.

The tenon was thick, about .320". It was threaded at the top only. I assume metric, but I didnt' measure it.
 
The tenon was thick, about .320". It was threaded at the top only. I assume metric, but I didnt' measure it.
Thnx for sharing that Fred.
If I see one Cuetec, I'll just heat up the ferrule, remove it, turn the tenon to .280 and leave a short shoulder at the bottom.
Hopefully it's still threadable after that. :D
 
Fred
Sorry you got slammed a little, some of us take cues real serious, so even though it was a valid question in your mind, most took it as a bogus short cut to fix a problem. I know you know Barry, I was just being a smart ass by suggestion you contact him.
 
Fred,

It depends on who's cue it is, and what there willing to settle for, or want. Like- I would'nt recomend it to someone, but might do it to mine, or if they were insistent upon trying it first, then it could probably be filled or sanded out depending on how deep & the ferrule material, and as long as you stay off the wood the ferrule could still always be replaced when it's more in their budget, or If things did not work out with the temporary fix.

I have done simular to what dick mentioned, but prefer not to fill. I also used a 320gr, but was a emery type made by Norton. After that I have had luck going with regular 400gr wetpaper, then on to 600, and polish any fine scratches out. You can polish with a finer micropaper, or what I like-sometimes a simple paper towel will even do a nice job of polishing, as long as it does'nt get too hot and melt anything. If they're not too deep, and come out easy enough, you can usually still get a decent looking ferrule that's not tapered from the sanding.If I had to fill though, I would probably only aggree to replacement of the ferulle in most cases. It just makes more sense. I don't even like to sand on them much, but in some easy cases, It's really no harm. If Your going to have to replace It anyhow, you might want to practice with it, and see what you come up with, just stay off the wood and your fine.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
Fred,

It depends on who's cue it is, and what there willing to settle for, or want.

Greg

Now that's disappointing, if it's damaged beyond wet sanding, it should be changed or don't do anything. Get your customers use to quality work. They have asked for your help, that's why they are there, don't let them settle for anything less than quality.
 
Fred Agnir said:
What'd I do, stir up the Ferrule Manufacturing Society's britches?

I've got more ferrules than I know what to do with, thank you. I just wanted to know if anyone has ever done it or considered it. Sheesh. I didn't defend it, or said anything about it's worthiness. And I get this type of response??? Did you read something that was so offensive? If you haven't thought about filling scratches, then thank you. You haven't. I got the answer to my question.


It's a friggin' Cuetec. Why not replace the whole friggin' cue? That was my suggestion.


Fred

P.S., for anyone who gives a sh*t and is not too busy berating me, the ferrule was a thermoplastic. Maybe I should have given Dick Neighbors' thoughts a try.

The tenon was thick, about .320". It was threaded at the top only. I assume metric, but I didnt' measure it.

Fred, have you thought of just replacing it??

Jim
 
Michael Webb said:
Now that's disappointing, if it's damaged beyond wet sanding, it should be changed or don't do anything. Get your customers use to quality work. They have asked for your help, that's why they are there, don't let them settle for anything less than quality.



Nothing disapointing about it, Your missing My point Mike, I Prefer not to do things that way. Though probably misleading, and probably should have been left out, That statement is kind of taken out of context, and if you read farther you would see I did recomend only wet sanding, and I prefer not to fill. :rolleyes: . the 320 i mentioned is also a wet variety, and is fine, just cuts a hair better. I don't do them like that, and don't suggest anyone else do it either. Have I ever filled a ferrule? The answer is quite simple- No I have not. I do however have people come to me that for what ever reason can't afford to have jobs done correctly, In most of those cases I have done stuff for free. Most of the time the costly and correct way. Their cues are probably worth a Wopping $9.99 :D, and sometimes they even just simply don't want to pay what it costs, because It's not worth It to them. To be honest, it probably would'nt to me either if I was them, because they may could buy a better cue for what the work would cost, so My point Is It depends on how He feels about it, because it is do-able as you & I well know. I don't know what Fred's sitution is, just trying to answer his question, without ribbing Him about it, because I'm sure he already knows where our ethics are on this by now. You know One day that guy with that $10 cue may step into a nicer one, Might even buy one from you, and apprietiate they fact that you went out of your to help them for free, even though you did'nt feel good about it, and they may apprietiate how you felt about not wanting to go with it the way you did as a favor, enough so, to trust you when done correctly on their good cue. I've learned the hard way, to charge correctly for the job, So I can do it correctly, garantee any issues that may come up, and make sure the customer gets the best work done on their cue, so to be honest it's just not in by best interest to do things Like that, regardless of the ethics involed, so I usually don't, but I have a soft side for people on ocassion, so Who am I to say what Fred's sitution is.

Would I do it, probably not. I'm sure if I did things that way, I would'nt have all the people trying to shove jobs My way, even though I'm not comfortable with them, and overly voice My concerns. If you only knew the amount of work I could be doing If I thought like that, and people I'm holding off, because I'm not ready to take some of them on, until I have certain things I still need to do it correctly. If You think that You and I are in disagreement here, then you would probably be the one that's incorrect, or sadly mistaken, but that's alright, I understand, and know You have to rib people alittle on such issues, so don't hold it against you ;).
I don't like putting anything out, that's not done the way I think it should be, was talked into once with alot of persistence, and would'nt ever do it again, Knowing what I know now, so believe Me, You & I feel the same on this issue. Lately I've been getting alot in, and have been replacing almost as many ferrules as tips. All on word of mouth from people I've done work for. The more of them I do, the more new people come seeking me out, or are introduced to me, and told to talk to me about they're cue work, instead of taking it to the others, so I like to think there's a good reason for that, because I've been hearing things are not going so good for everyone accross the country with the economy the way it is.

Now that you know where I stand, and made me explain myself LOL, I have'nt seen the ferrule in question, so have no idea how bad off it is, just trying to help answer the man's question. If he has to replace the ferrule anyhow, what's the harm in him learning the material, and how to work with it, before doing so? Many ferrules sand at different rates, and have their own pitfalls, best way to learn them is on what's basically scrap anyway. Just a thought.
 
Cue Crazy said:
Nothing disapointing about it, Your missing My point Mike, I Prefer not to do things that way. Though probably misleading, and probably should have been left out, That statement is kind of taken out of context, and if you read farther you would see I did recomend only wet sanding, and I prefer not to fill. :rolleyes: . the 320 i mentioned is also a wet variety, and is fine, just cuts a hair better. I don't do them like that, and don't suggest anyone else do it either. Have I ever filled a ferrule? The answer is quite simple- No I have not. I do however have people come to me that for what ever reason can't afford to have jobs done correctly, In most of those cases I have done stuff for free. Most of the time the costly and correct way. Their cues are probably worth a Wopping $9.99 :D, and sometimes they even just simply don't want to pay what it costs, because It's not worth It to them. To be honest, it probably would'nt to me either if I was them, because they may could buy a better cue for what the work would cost, so My point Is It depends on how He feels about it, because it is do-able as you & I well know. I don't know what Fred's sitution is, just trying to answer his question, without ribbing Him about it, because I'm sure he already knows where our ethics are on this by now. You know One day that guy with that $10 cue may step into a nicer one, Might even buy one from you, and apprietiate they fact that you went out of your to help them for free, even though you did'nt feel good about it, and they may apprietiate how you felt about not wanting to go with it the way you did as a favor, enough so, to trust you when done correctly on their good cue. I've learned the hard way, to charge correctly for the job, So I can do it correctly, garantee any issues that may come up, and make sure the customer gets the best work done on their cue, so to be honest it's just not in by best interest to do things Like that, regardless of the ethics involed, so I usually don't, but I have a soft side for people on ocassion, so Who am I to say what Fred's sitution is.

Would I do it, probably not. I'm sure if I did things that way, I would'nt have all the people trying to shove jobs My way, even though I'm not comfortable with them, and overly voice My concerns. If you only knew the amount of work I could be doing If I thought like that, and people I'm holding off, because I'm not ready to take some of them on, until I have certain things I still need to do it correctly. If You think that You and I are in disagreement here, then you would probably be the one that's incorrect, or sadly mistaken, but that's alright, I understand, and know You have to rib people alittle on such issues, so don't hold it against you ;).
I don't like putting anything out, that's not done the way I think it should be, was talked into once with alot of persistence, and would'nt ever do it again, Knowing what I know now, so believe Me, You & I feel the same on this issue. Lately I've been getting alot in, and have been replacing almost as many ferrules as tips. All on word of mouth from people I've done work for. The more of them I do, the more new people come seeking me out, or are introduced to me, and told to talk to me about they're cue work, instead of taking it to the others, so I like to think there's a good reason for that, because I've been hearing things are not going so good for everyone accross the country with the economy the way it is.

Now that you know where I stand, and made me explain myself LOL, I have'nt seen the ferrule in question, so have no idea how bad off it is, just trying to help answer the man's question. If he has to replace the ferrule anyhow, what's the harm in him learning the material, and how to work with it, before doing so? Many ferrules sand at different rates, and have their own pitfalls, best way to learn them is on what's basically scrap anyway. Just a thought.

I get this stuff all the time. I tell them the price for the repair and they complain that that is more than they paid for the cue and would I do the work cheaper. I tell them that the time and material I have to invest is the same for a cheap cue as it is for an expensive one and that the reason they're having this problem is because it is a cheap cue. Other times I have people come in with a 15.00 Chinese cue with the brass joint and brass pin casting on the shaft and want a new shaft or other expensive work done and I promptly let them know, in a courtious way, that they must be crazy. I tell them that if they are dead set on keeping their butt to just go to a flea market and buy a similar one for 5.00 and just use the shaft. I treat everybodies cues as if they were my own, if someone wants something done that is not cost effective and I wouldn't put that much money into my cue I let them know, same if they want something shoddy done to get by. I let them know that there is nothing I can't do to repair a cue but that many cues aren't worth the expense. One fellow came in with a Schon thats prong was broke off at an angle and the break just barely reached one of the points. He said that he had sent it back to Schon but they never wanted to repair it and if I could do anything with it. I told him I could square the break, dowell it and try to match up a piece of birdseye running to the joint and then the cue would need to be refinished. He agreed with the price so I repaired it as we agreed but I never liked the looks as it had run into the very tips of the points. I pulled the prong at the handle, miked the different inlays and points, drew the parts up, cammed them, tested for fit and made a whole new prong identical to the original. When he came to pick it up he was in awe that he couldn't find the splice before I told him that I had made a complete new forearm. He paid our original agreed upon price although I probably had an additional 20 hr. work involved but it turned out nicely and I wasn't happy with our agreed upon way of repair.
Dick
 
Cue Crazy said:
Nothing disapointing about it, Your missing My point Mike, I Prefer not to do things that way. Though probably misleading, and probably should have been left out, That statement is kind of taken out of context, and if you read farther you would see I did recomend only wet sanding, and I prefer not to fill. :rolleyes: . the 320 i mentioned is also a wet variety, and is fine, just cuts a hair better. I don't do them like that, and don't suggest anyone else do it either. Have I ever filled a ferrule? The answer is quite simple- No I have not. I do however have people come to me that for what ever reason can't afford to have jobs done correctly, In most of those cases I have done stuff for free. Most of the time the costly and correct way. Their cues are probably worth a Wopping $9.99 :D, and sometimes they even just simply don't want to pay what it costs, because It's not worth It to them. To be honest, it probably would'nt to me either if I was them, because they may could buy a better cue for what the work would cost, so My point Is It depends on how He feels about it, because it is do-able as you & I well know. I don't know what Fred's sitution is, just trying to answer his question, without ribbing Him about it, because I'm sure he already knows where our ethics are on this by now. You know One day that guy with that $10 cue may step into a nicer one, Might even buy one from you, and apprietiate they fact that you went out of your to help them for free, even though you did'nt feel good about it, and they may apprietiate how you felt about not wanting to go with it the way you did as a favor, enough so, to trust you when done correctly on their good cue. I've learned the hard way, to charge correctly for the job, So I can do it correctly, garantee any issues that may come up, and make sure the customer gets the best work done on their cue, so to be honest it's just not in by best interest to do things Like that, regardless of the ethics involed, so I usually don't, but I have a soft side for people on ocassion, so Who am I to say what Fred's sitution is.

Would I do it, probably not. I'm sure if I did things that way, I would'nt have all the people trying to shove jobs My way, even though I'm not comfortable with them, and overly voice My concerns. If you only knew the amount of work I could be doing If I thought like that, and people I'm holding off, because I'm not ready to take some of them on, until I have certain things I still need to do it correctly. If You think that You and I are in disagreement here, then you would probably be the one that's incorrect, or sadly mistaken, but that's alright, I understand, and know You have to rib people alittle on such issues, so don't hold it against you ;).
I don't like putting anything out, that's not done the way I think it should be, was talked into once with alot of persistence, and would'nt ever do it again, Knowing what I know now, so believe Me, You & I feel the same on this issue. Lately I've been getting alot in, and have been replacing almost as many ferrules as tips. All on word of mouth from people I've done work for. The more of them I do, the more new people come seeking me out, or are introduced to me, and told to talk to me about they're cue work, instead of taking it to the others, so I like to think there's a good reason for that, because I've been hearing things are not going so good for everyone accross the country with the economy the way it is.

Now that you know where I stand, and made me explain myself LOL, I have'nt seen the ferrule in question, so have no idea how bad off it is, just trying to help answer the man's question. If he has to replace the ferrule anyhow, what's the harm in him learning the material, and how to work with it, before doing so? Many ferrules sand at different rates, and have their own pitfalls, best way to learn them is on what's basically scrap anyway. Just a thought.

Hi Greg, I don't think Mike ment anything by it. Mike's a friend and a straight shooter. And many of us try to do the repairs correctly and avoid shotty work.. It always comes back to haunt you. Usually, the professional repair is less work than a shotty repair. Even when a customer trys to pressure you into taking a short cut, it should be avoided. And I think that's all Mike was trying to say.

Barry C.
www.cameroncues.com
 
rhncue said:
I get this stuff all the time. I tell them the price for the repair and they complain that that is more than they paid for the cue and would I do the work cheaper. I tell them that the time and material I have to invest is the same for a cheap cue as it is for an expensive one and that the reason they're having this problem is because it is a cheap cue. Other times I have people come in with a 15.00 Chinese cue with the brass joint and brass pin casting on the shaft and want a new shaft or other expensive work done and I promptly let them know, in a courtious way, that they must be crazy. I tell them that if they are dead set on keeping their butt to just go to a flea market and buy a similar one for 5.00 and just use the shaft. I treat everybodies cues as if they were my own, if someone wants something done that is not cost effective and I wouldn't put that much money into my cue I let them know, same if they want something shoddy done to get by. I let them know that there is nothing I can't do to repair a cue but that many cues aren't worth the expense. One fellow came in with a Schon thats prong was broke off at an angle and the break just barely reached one of the points. He said that he had sent it back to Schon but they never wanted to repair it and if I could do anything with it. I told him I could square the break, dowell it and try to match up a piece of birdseye running to the joint and then the cue would need to be refinished. He agreed with the price so I repaired it as we agreed but I never liked the looks as it had run into the very tips of the points. I pulled the prong at the handle, miked the different inlays and points, drew the parts up, cammed them, tested for fit and made a whole new prong identical to the original. When he came to pick it up he was in awe that he couldn't find the splice before I told him that I had made a complete new forearm. He paid our original agreed upon price although I probably had an additional 20 hr. work involved but it turned out nicely and I wasn't happy with our agreed upon way of repair.
Dick



I could'nt aggree more, and tell them pretty much the same thing. some of them actually don't care what it costs, and still want it done correctly, even when I tell them that their cue may not be worth the money, which is hard to explain to some of them no matter how you word It. I guess some are just use to shooting with what they have, and don't want another cue, because i know they can afford it & they shoot well enough to warrant getting something better. I try not to question that after I've made My point, but there are somethings I just won't touch anymore. I have also had to learn not to be talked into rush jobs, because I got to have the time to do it right, so I can atleast take pride in the work, or not worth to me. Especially when you have many hrs of work, and did'nt even estimate It well enough to cover materials, simular to the job you mentioned. otherwise you get nothing from it, not even the satisfaction of a job well done. It may not matter to them, But that's all I get out of a job like that. Also If you give someone a break on price, and tell them not to tell anyone, then they turn around and tell everyone. I use to give some a small break when they had more then one job for me at the same time, but have learned to charge everyone equal for the most part, because then they tell everyone what you charged, and fail to tell them It was part of a package deal, so then other people think they got overcharged or something, over a 5-10 dollar difference, and you have to explain it to them. then there's always some that need more work then others, costing more to do, and can have the same effect. I still fall into them sometimes, even though i know better. Just Last week I had a shaft with several bad nicks near the ferulle and a really dirty unsealed shaft. did'nt realize how bad it was till I got it back to the shop. I spent 2 days on and off working on it to get the dents out, and clean the shaft without removing too much material, because the shaft was already down to under 12mm. They are a friend, and good customer, I knew they were probably tight on money at the time & ended up only charging them 15, and 10 for a tip on another shaft, and they still owe Me 5 :D, not a big deal, I know their good for it, and like to help people out when i can. It's just that I have to quit doing this stuff, because it adds up, and that time spent could have been used to make another new shaft, or put toward other work.

I always keep any of those cheap cues that are given to us, and then when someone wants a shaft for one, or they need a screw on tip, I just give them one from the parts cues, instead of putting any work into one of them.
 
Barry C. said:
Hi Greg, I don't think Mike ment anything by it. Mike's a friend and a straight shooter. And many of us try to do the repairs correctly and avoid shotty work.. It always comes back to haunt you. Usually, the professional repair is less work than a shotty repair. Even when a customer trys to pressure you into taking a short cut, it should be avoided. And I think that's all Mike was trying to say.

Barry C.
www.cameroncues.com



Hey Barry,

Yes, I know Mike, He is a really good guy, and I consider him a friend. He's been very helpfull & unselfish to me in the past for someone he did not know, and I have no beef with him at all, infact My whole point was that I totally aggree with him, and he should know that by now, that statement was pulled out of context of what My overall statement was, and I should have left it out. If He thought any different he would be misinformed. Being pressured, as you mentioned, is something I've learned the hard way in the past, just like I'm sure most have. I try to avoid it at all costs myself. I know he's going to say something like that, when he reads what I told Fred, I realize It's just his nature, and can't fault him for that, when I feel the same way. I think he just gave me a hard time because he expects more from Me, and just rattling My chains :D That's alright though, no harm in that, In fact I expect it. I would do the same with him, totally out of respect, and expecting more from him. Sure He knows that. Don't worry Guys, I don't fill any ferrules with epoxy. I've never even done it LOL, so that's what's really funny about it. I still have a few things to learn about building cues, but happy with the work I'm doing now, just need to get my finish down. I have though, been doing repair for a good while now, and just don't do things that way.

Thanks for the concern By the way, I have heard good things of you, so do apprietiate it, sure you can understand why I needed to clarify Myself. don't worry, me and Mike are cool. He did'nt hit below the belt and suggest I was dishonest atleast ;) , now those would have been fighting words there :D . He just speaks his mind, something I can relate to, because I can be the same way. I'd rather be around someone like that then someone full of BS, any day of the week.

Greg
 
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