Why do I play horrible against bad players

A

americanfighter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Today i was at the pool hall all day. first i was doing drills and run outs and doing good. Then a guy came up to and played me. The games we played were very good. it was Kind of like if you missed one shot and left a shot open for your opponent (not even a good shot) you were in danger of getting run out. I beat this guy in the vast majority of the games we played.

next after drilling a little more some old guy came up to me and we played each other. This guy was pretty bad by league standards. he missed shots that should have been easy and played bad position play and left me opportunities I should have cleaned up on.

However instead of cleaning up and winning every game we played I was horrible. I missed easy shots my stroke was off my aiming was off the whole 9 yards and i got beaten several times.

I have noticed this happening before why is it that bad players make it harder for me to win than if i was playing a good player?
 
Cause you know your getting back to the table.I used to do the same
and figured out that if I play dumb long enough my game will go
down the toilet.
Play every person like there a pro and play saftey's as you would in
tournament play.
This is a reason I don't play in leagues in my area cause nobody gives
a damn about the game but there all out for a fun night of wolfing
back beer and wings.
Not saying thats bad,but for me I'm about winning and taking the game
serious when I play.If you want to see improvement,just realize there is
no such thing as a easy shot and play every game like its life or death.
 
There's more than just a simple answer to this kind of question.

First off, in a previous post you had estimated your APA skill level to be about a '5 by the end of this session'. That tells me that you're still streaky. A 5 can have a few games of running out, or they can flop around a bit and not quite feel comfortable at the table. Inconsistency is a @$%&^.

Secondly, sometimes I take strange shots and things don't quite work out for me at the beginnings of racks. For me, I don't mind taking a tough start to try to get myself set up for a runout, but a fail can also result in you still having to deal with that messed-up rack. If you're having trouble, you'd best beware that a better player may be able to knuckle down and run out after a slow start. Just because others don't do as you expect, don't think you've got them pegged.

Lastly, it also depends on how you play against people of differing skill. Can you play up well? Can you play down well? It's pretty rare that you'll be matched up evenly. The better you get, the more you'll have to be able to play down to win. If you're taking the game for granted when you've got the edge, you may as well forget that you even have an edge. For example, if you're playing a 4-3 race, you'd better play your game or it's more like playing the same skill level and giving yourself an extra game handicap - the only difference is, your opponent will be trying harder.

There could be lots more reasons, but from my own experience those have been the big ones.
 
Banks said:
There's more than just a simple answer to this kind of question.

First off, in a previous post you had estimated your APA skill level to be about a '5 by the end of this session'. That tells me that you're still streaky. A 5 can have a few games of running out, or they can flop around a bit and not quite feel comfortable at the table. Inconsistency is a @$%&^.

Secondly, sometimes I take strange shots and things don't quite work out for me at the beginnings of racks. For me, I don't mind taking a tough start to try to get myself set up for a runout, but a fail can also result in you still having to deal with that messed-up rack. If you're having trouble, you'd best beware that a better player may be able to knuckle down and run out after a slow start. Just because others don't do as you expect, don't think you've got them pegged.

Lastly, it also depends on how you play against people of differing skill. Can you play up well? Can you play down well? It's pretty rare that you'll be matched up evenly. The better you get, the more you'll have to be able to play down to win. If you're taking the game for granted when you've got the edge, you may as well forget that you even have an edge. For example, if you're playing a 4-3 race, you'd better play your game or it's more like playing the same skill level and giving yourself an extra game handicap - the only difference is, your opponent will be trying harder.

There could be lots more reasons, but from my own experience those have been the big ones.
Click to expand...

Those seem like really good ones to me,,,,,,,
 
americanfighter said:
Today i was at the pool hall all day. first i was doing drills and run outs and doing good. Then a guy came up to and played me. The games we played were very good. it was Kind of like if you missed one shot and left a shot open for your opponent (not even a good shot) you were in danger of getting run out. I beat this guy in the vast majority of the games we played.

next after drilling a little more some old guy came up to me and we played each other. This guy was pretty bad by league standards. he missed shots that should have been easy and played bad position play and left me opportunities I should have cleaned up on.

However instead of cleaning up and winning every game we played I was horrible. I missed easy shots my stroke was off my aiming was off the whole 9 yards and i got beaten several times.

I have noticed this happening before why is it that bad players make it harder for me to win than if i was playing a good player?
Click to expand...


You know, what you *really* have to worry about is when you play bad against good players :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
americanfighter said:
Today i was at the pool hall all day. first i was doing drills and run outs and doing good. Then a guy came up to and played me. The games we played were very good. it was Kind of like if you missed one shot and left a shot open for your opponent (not even a good shot) you were in danger of getting run out. I beat this guy in the vast majority of the games we played.

next after drilling a little more some old guy came up to me and we played each other. This guy was pretty bad by league standards. he missed shots that should have been easy and played bad position play and left me opportunities I should have cleaned up on.

However instead of cleaning up and winning every game we played I was horrible. I missed easy shots my stroke was off my aiming was off the whole 9 yards and i got beaten several times.

I have noticed this happening before why is it that bad players make it harder for me to win than if i was playing a good player?
Click to expand...

Two things. To be able to play at a consistently high level no matter who you're playing is a rare thing. Even for pros. That's why they are constantly looking for ways to motivate themselves. Michael Jordan always looked for "bulletin board" material.

Second thing applicable to all. You are not as good as your best game, you are as good as your AVERAGE game, and it's no more prevalent than in a pool room.
 
imho, the reason is that your stroke is not consistent, and against better opponent, your attitude is right, then you play well. but against weaker opponent, you took your game for granted, let your feet off the pedal, like "dont worry, let the guy take a couple of racks, I will get them back in no time" attitude, that is a killing attitude that will harm any non-pros game.

Pool is a very precise game, one smallest moment of poor concentration can cost you the rack, and surrender the momentum to your opponent, and then nothing is guaranteed.

I used to be famous for my inconsistency, everyday my game was exactly what you encountered: Best the better but worst the worse. Then I played some better players who were willing to guide me, they said my game must develop a "killer instinct", I must define the key shots and must not miss them, I must play the table, not my opponents, take the time and concentrate. I have not developed my game into a desired level yet, but my game is better now, I dont miss the 9 (or 10 in 10ball), I dont get complacent playing with weaker opponents now because my opponent is the table, I just try to run-out no matter what.

So I think the reason is attitude, it controls your every move on the table.
 
americanfighter said:
I have noticed this happening before why is it that bad players make it harder for me to win than if i was playing a good player?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, I believe much of your issue with playing those whom you believe to be of lower skill than you resides in a lack of emotion towards the game.

When we play players that we rate as more skillful than ourselves we often try harder and for a lack of a better term, we focus more on each and every shot, perhaps out of respect for the better player's abilities should we let them back to the table. We are emotionally invested in this game because we want to see if we can rise to the challenge and beat the "better"/ "more skilled" player.

When we play those whom we judge (and we are often wrong) as less skilled than ourselves, we are not emotionally invested in the outcome, we have less motivation and as a result we have less urgency to win.

I believe this is one reason that many people like to "play for some stakes" to as they often say "make the game more interesting". There are some stone cold killers in the pool halls of the world to be sure. However, most players (again in my opinion) need a reason to bring their A game. They require some stimulation/emotional investment to bear down each and every shot. Some players who play at a very high level sometimes will ease up in a long set when they have a commanding lead and the spectators will often wonder why they haven't closed it out.

Many of us will coast when we are in the lead and some will coast from the start when they do not feel their opponent will provide a sufficient challenge for them. This results in the player just going through the motions and not fully engaging in the activity of playing the game.

If you can identify something that gets you emotionally invested in the outcome of each and every game no matter who you are playing then I believe you will find your overall level of play will improve.

I have seen many players who appear that they can't make a ball at all, get PO'd at their opponent and it's like a whole other player is now shooting. They find that fire/hate/motivation and are fully awake now and each and every shot has their full and utmost attention. Perhaps you've seen this too.

There's a big difference between social pool or playing for fun and playing when you are fully committed to winning each and ever game, each and every shot.

For some people they find a way to hate their opponent while they are playing them. For others they are motivated by the money they have bet on the game/set etc. Find out what motivates you what really gets you emotionally invested in the game and you will play better.

That's my opinion take it for what it's worth to you.
 
I agree with pretty much what eveyone has stated so far. For me, and this is just me, it really comes down the the mental aspect of the game. When playing a lesser skilled player it is easy to let up mentally which is often a big mistake in that you lose games that should have been won. You take shots you would not normally take against a better player. In simple terms, you relax, and when that happens, you lose that competitive edge.

In golf you can't play the opponent, you play the course. If he drives it 320 yards with a driver, but you can't hit a driver, but yet you hit a 3 wood down the middle of the fair way every time, don't pull out the driver! You are asking for disaster. Stay with what keeps you in the middle of the fairway and gives you a chance to score.

It's the same in pool. Find out what you limitations are if you don't know, and play accordingly. Me personally, I'm not much of a 9 baller. When I do play, I realize my chances of running racks like SBV are almost zero. I try to play smart, play safes when they come up and so forth. If it's against a lesser skilled player, it does not change my game. I still try to play smart and play good safes if there is any doubt I can't get out. I try not to let up mentally and take those "fliers" that usually get me beat. The game I play when playing a lesser skilled player is the game of "try not to let him win a single game" which is tough.

Play the table and forget who you are playing. If every shot you leave him is a kick, hard bank, or hard shot, you will win your fair share. Shoot each shot with the expectation if you miss, you lose. Putting a lot of pressure on yourself, and knowing your limitations will help, at least it helps me.
 
DoubleD said:
Valid point, but I tend to think it is the opposite.

Many people can write off losing to a better player, so they get comfortable and their play shows it. When playing a 'lesser' player, these people start thinking about what it means if they lose, which can screw with confidence when they do miss.
Click to expand...

First thanks for all the info guys it was all helpful however I think this is why. I also golf for fun and i find many parallels to golf and pool in the mental game.

Its funny the best golf I had ever played in my life was the first 9 holes on a scratch course when i hadn't picked up a club in about a year then I stunk it up on the back 9 and never played as well as i did for the remaining 3 days. I think I was expecting to stink it up and the pressure was off and there was no shame in it because i hadn't played in years then when i started doing good started thinking about all the things that could go wrong. I think this may be the same way with pool when some one runs out in one or two rounds there is less shame in losing to them I guess.

I really need to learn to approach every opponent the same.
 
Faceless Opponents

You nailed it with the last statement. I am just an APA banger too (7/9) but I have got some game. The key is staying in the moment. You play lower ranked players that you expect to beat and you take them for granted. You play like ranked players and you understand and contemplate the consequences of missing. One rattled ball can cost you 3 or 4 racks. If you can try and channel that focus when you are hill/hill with a like or better player but really you are hill and they havent even gotten on the board, then you are on to somthing.
 
ctran said:
I used to be famous for my inconsistency, everyday my game was exactly what you encountered: Best the better but worst the worse. Then I played some better players who were willing to guide me, they said my game must develop a "killer instinct", I must define the key shots and must not miss them, I must play the table, not my opponents, take the time and concentrate. I have not developed my game into a desired level yet, but my game is better now, I dont miss the 9 (or 10 in 10ball), I dont get complacent playing with weaker opponents now because my opponent is the table, I just try to run-out no matter what.

So I think the reason is attitude, it controls your every move on the table.
Click to expand...

I like this post. Thats what i need to do more also. When i play someone of lesser skill i always assume that if i don't let them shoot a little they will get bored and leave and then i won't have anyone to play with...lol
 
if my memory serves me right, there is a whole section on this in the "Pleasures of small motions" -book.
Part of it was for example that you have nothing to win in that match...only to lose.

You know you are better, so therefore if you win, it is no big deal as you were supposed to win anyway....but if you lose....you lose much more than just the game...you lose face in front of everyone as you are not supposed to lose. with this battle going on inside your head, it takes capacity from your brain away from things that it should be doing...ie. focusing on your stance, stroke, shot-selection, tip-position etc.

Just read that book....it is an eye-opener!
 
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