Why do so many people hate Jump Cues?

J

jbell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok hello folks I have a question im very curious about and really just DONT understand. Im at a local $10 Entry Fee Open Tourny last night (which im not allowed to play in so you dont think im goign purely for myself in this post) and a friend of mine is playing and his opponent plays him safe so he grabs his JUMP CUE out and my friend jumps makes a good hit on the ball and rats something in. Next the guy he is playing just starts ranting and raving about how using those things take no skill Blah Blah Blah. So my friend tells him fine take mine and we will set up shots for you to make if it takes no skill and see how well you do. So not to drag this out to far but i mean GOLFERS use what 12,13 clubs to play their game then why cant pool just accept the fact that if a player can use a jump cue and afford it why cant he play with it. I would love to see all the golfers told " NO NO NO Sir you can only bring 2 clubs on this course" I think they would freak. Sorry to rant but just kinda bothers me that the game i love and have played so long doesnt want to change .
Well in closing if you have a view on this to share pls do cause im really curious to see if its only the older players that seem to hate the jump cue or what .
 
I believe it's because people play mediocre safeties and end up getting beat by jump cues. So instead of tightening up their safeties or learning new ones they would rather blame someone else and what they are using to defeat their attempts.

Personally I like it when I see someone break out their jump cue, the amount of people that can use them and execute a shot with it are small. You know it's strange, Filipinos don't like playing shape off the rail if they don't have to, yet go directly to kicking instead of jumping when hooked. Wonder why?
 
it is my understanding that it's what the jump cue TAKES AWAY, not brings to the game. ....that there is more KNOWLEDGE involved in great kicking than there is in jumping. the fact that cues are made specifically for jumping tells me that it is a skill of execution, not knowledge. if your opponent used smarts to put you in a hole, i think you should be required to use smarts to get yourself out...... not use a jump cue to negate what your opponent did.

golf is different game and comparisons shouldn't be made.
 
Last edited:
jbell said:
Ok hello folks I have a question im very curious about and really just DONT understand. Im at a local $10 Entry Fee Open Tourny last night (which im not allowed to play in so you dont think im goign purely for myself in this post) and a friend of mine is playing and his opponent plays him safe so he grabs his JUMP CUE out and my friend jumps makes a good hit on the ball and rats something in. Next the guy he is playing just starts ranting and raving about how using those things take no skill Blah Blah Blah. So my friend tells him fine take mine and we will set up shots for you to make if it takes no skill and see how well you do. So not to drag this out to far but i mean GOLFERS use what 12,13 clubs to play their game then why cant pool just accept the fact that if a player can use a jump cue and afford it why cant he play with it. I would love to see all the golfers told " NO NO NO Sir you can only bring 2 clubs on this course" I think they would freak. Sorry to rant but just kinda bothers me that the game i love and have played so long doesnt want to change .
Well in closing if you have a view on this to share pls do cause im really curious to see if its only the older players that seem to hate the jump cue or what .
Click to expand...

This subject has been beat to death. Try searching the old posts, you'll find some very long threads on the subject.
Personally I wish nobody would use them. As a matter of fact I prefer playing in tournaments and leagues where they are not allowed, but as long as people use them I have one. I only use it if I've no other options, but I do use it occassionally. It does take skill to use one properly, but I think it takes more skill to reach a hidden ball via a multi-bank kick shot or by jumping with a standard cue.
JMHO.
BTW, golfers have restrictions on the clubs they can use in tournaments too, they are however more liberal.
 
It added

a new dimension to the game. Players have been
jumping balls for years with a full cue, but if you
safetied them too close to an object ball they couldn't.
Jump cues changed that logic. Now you don't know
really how close a player can jump if you haven't seen
it from playing him in the past. It kind of keeps the logic
of it 'up in the air'. Now, when you think you have
outsmarted an opponent, you may not have because
of his jumping skills. You will always have 'naysayers'
in any sport saying it should be played the 'old way'.
I mean, there are still people saying you shouldn't cook
using a microwave ... lol There are some people you tell
an idea, and they take off with it, some you show an idea
and they take off with it, and the rest who you constantly
pull along on the idea, and they ***** about it. It's just life ..
I am an old timer and didn't have a jump cue for years and
years, but changed my mind when I was getting beat in a
match-up because of one. Now, I have 3 jump cues.
 
bruin70 said:
it is my understanding that it's what the jump cue TAKES AWAY, not brings to the game. ....that there is more KNOWLEDGE involved in great kicking than there is in jumping. the fact that cues are made specifically for jumping tells me that it is a skill of execution, not knowledge. if your opponent used smarts to put you in a hole, i think you should be required to use smarts to get yourself out...... not use a jump cue to negate what your opponent did.

golf is different game and comparisons shouldn't be made.
Click to expand...


There are many aspects of Golf that even top pros parallel over from game to game, so I would disagree with you there. And even though it seems like it takes less skill to execute a jump shot, I believe it is about equal. Don't get me wrong, I choose to kick a ball first, but some shots are better suited for a jump shot. I believe you should have the choice to do either, the jump shot is a skill just like any other shot.
 
Snapshot9 said:
a new dimension to the game. Players have been
jumping balls for years with a full cue,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, old timer and didn't have a jump cue for years and
years, but changed my mind when I was getting beat in a
match-up because of one. Now, I have 3 jump cues.
Click to expand...


i guess the camps are divided between execution and knowledge. because i am of the latter, i see the jump cue as symptomatic of why 9ball (and its bastard child 7ball)lacks "depth". it is more a game of execution compared to the other games,,,which is why a 14 year old gave archer problems at the world summit.
 
bruin70 said:
i guess the camps are divided between execution and knowledge. because i am of the latter, i see the jump cue as symptomatic of why 9ball (and its bastard child 7ball)lacks "depth". it is more a game of execution compared to the other games,,,which is why a 14 year old gave archer problems at the world summit.
Click to expand...


So is that why a Taiwanese won the World Championship at 16? Your logic is failing to register, are you just angry because you grew up without a jump cue and now you can't learn to use one?

And I agree, 7 ball is a joke of a game, it was made for TV and I believe it was a step in the wrong direction. Personally I practice 10 or 12-ball ghosts, I don't fare too well some days, but believe they are better games for practicing. And yes, I practice it with my jump cue.
 
bruin70 said:
golf is different game and comparisons shouldn't be made.
Click to expand...
I agree that the golf analogy isn't very appropriate, because it would be impossible to hit a pitching wedge 250 yards...or execute a flop shot out of a green-side bunker with a fairway wood. I think the better analogy would be baseball and bunting. If a batter decides to bunt the ball, i think it would much easier if he calls time out and brings out a whiffleball-sized bat with a barrel diameter of a foot. By changing bats, bunting would be significantly easier...BUT you can still bunt effectively with a normal sized bat, although doing so would be more difficult. Likewise for jump cues. You can still jump effectively with a normal cue, although it would be more difficult than a jump cue. Using jumping cues make the game unnecessarily easier than it should be.
 
jbell said:
Ok hello folks I have a question im very curious about and really just DONT understand. Im at a local $10 Entry Fee Open Tourny last night (which im not allowed to play in so you dont think im goign purely for myself in this post) and a friend of mine is playing and his opponent plays him safe so he grabs his JUMP CUE out and my friend jumps makes a good hit on the ball and rats something in. Next the guy he is playing just starts ranting and raving about how using those things take no skill Blah Blah Blah. So my friend tells him fine take mine and we will set up shots for you to make if it takes no skill and see how well you do. So not to drag this out to far but i mean GOLFERS use what 12,13 clubs to play their game then why cant pool just accept the fact that if a player can use a jump cue and afford it why cant he play with it. I would love to see all the golfers told " NO NO NO Sir you can only bring 2 clubs on this course" I think they would freak. Sorry to rant but just kinda bothers me that the game i love and have played so long doesnt want to change .
Well in closing if you have a view on this to share pls do cause im really curious to see if its only the older players that seem to hate the jump cue or what .
Click to expand...


I love the jump cue...the ones that ***** about jump cues either cant use one because the wont put the time in or the ones that think it ruins the safe aspect of the game. It would be like telling Mickelson not to use his 60 degree lob wedge to flop one from 22 yards over a trap and some shrubs...yeah right!!
 
well Bruin i can see your point and im being serious i can understand how you feel but do you know how LONG i practiced with my jump cues just to be able to know how hard and where to hit the ball in ALL honesty about the same amount of time it took me to learn where to kick on a rail . but everyone has thier views on this matter im just really curious about the Whys and Why nots.
 
pillage6 said:
There are many aspects of Golf that even top pros parallel over from game to game, so I would disagree with you there. And even though it seems like it takes less skill to execute a jump shot, I believe it is about equal. Don't get me wrong, I choose to kick a ball first, but some shots are better suited for a jump shot. I believe you should have the choice to do either, the jump shot is a skill just like any other shot.
Click to expand...

i am guessing those aspects address things like zen focus etc etc, ie mostly mental, i betcha:) but on the purely surface level, there are no sand traps, water hazzards, nor rolling mounds on a pool table. the layout of a pool game is what we make of it, how we manipulate the balls, and how our opponent manipulates us.

in golf, everyone must master all the clubs. in all the sports i can think of, there is equality in how players must cope. but if you are brilliant with a jump cue, you have a distinct advantage and can play your safeties with this in mind. i'm not going to ask if it's fair, because it is allowed,,,,but is it "pure"?
 
jsp said:
I agree that the golf analogy isn't very appropriate, because it would be impossible to hit a pitching wedge 250 yards...or execute a flop shot out of a green-side bunker with a fairway wood. I think the better analogy would be baseball and bunting. If a batter decides to bunt the ball, i think it would much easier if he calls time out and brings out a whiffleball-sized bat with a barrel diameter of a foot. By changing bats, bunting would be significantly easier...BUT you can still bunt effectively with a normal sized bat, although doing so would be more difficult. Likewise for jump cues. You can still jump effectively with a normal cue, although it would be more difficult than a jump cue. Using jumping cues make the game unnecessarily easier than it should be.
Click to expand...

Maybe there will be jump cues specific to how quickly you neeed to get the ball in the air. I guess they should should change the rules to allowing a 15 cue limit

Anyway, I jump with my playing cue though generally opt to kick. I was once against the Jump cue but I have accepted that they are here to stay. Anyway it does help lots of players and as I have found that if a player is not to strong, they generally miss the shot and leave the table open after the cue ball takes a few hops.

Just as when you play safe, you keep the cue ball tucked close to a ball to limit angles on a kick, you also restrict possible use of the jump as well.
 
Actually Zen Golf is a book I am reading right now.........and not to help my Golf game since there is no helping that. There are other "traps" in or around a pool table, they are just not the same ones as in Golf. There are opponent antics, music, cadence of play, bad rails, slow cloth, light balls, dirty balls, etc. etc.

Every game has it's inconsistencies or traps, but the mental aspect or outlook remains the same. So if you say it is a distinct advantage for someone to use a jump cue, why shouldn't you use that to YOUR advantage instead of trying to ban it? I would bet that pro Golfers aren't the ones that said you can't use square grooves in a club face or a certain type/ size/ composition of driver, it was the organizations that did.
 
I think kicking is far superior to jumping with a full cue and jumping with a full cue far superior to jumping with a jump cue.

I think that most experienced pool players will agree that watching good kicking in a game is much more enjoyable than jumping. On the other hand, non-pool players can't understand how tough kicking is so they are impressed by jumping (and breaking, combinations and the like).
 
pillage6 said:
So is that why a Taiwanese won the World Championship at 16? Your logic is failing to register, are you just angry because you grew up without a jump cue and now you can't learn to use one?

And I agree, 7 ball is a joke of a game, it was made for TV and I believe it was a step in the wrong direction. Personally I practice 10 or 12-ball ghosts, I don't fare too well some days, but believe they are better games for practicing. And yes, I practice it with my jump cue.
Click to expand...

i actually don't give a shit, so i'm not angry. i find 9ball extremely boring, so i avoid watching it. and if i play it, it's because it's mindless and takes less mental effort than 14.1.

my logic makes perfect sense. in almost any endeavor,maturity and knowledge is what seperates champions,,,and i'm not just talking about sport. you have actually strengthened my point,,,,,,because a 16 year old won, points to 9ball's easy entry level BECAUSE it has become a game of mindless execution. this is my point exactly.
 
So ....

bruin70 said:
it is my understanding that it's what the jump cue TAKES AWAY, not brings to the game. ....that there is more KNOWLEDGE involved in great kicking than there is in jumping. the fact that cues are made specifically for jumping tells me that it is a skill of execution, not knowledge. if your opponent used smarts to put you in a hole, i think you should be required to use smarts to get yourself out...... not use a jump cue to negate what your opponent did.

golf is different game and comparisons shouldn't be made.
Click to expand...

If you were shorter, you would score higher for knowledge on
jumping. Let me get this right, If I made a part using a
Cinncinati Mill, then all my competitors have to use the same
mill to make the part too, because if they used another machine
to make the part, and probably cheaper, it would be UNFAIR.
The opponent put you in the HOLE, you didn't. Why should you
have to play to your opponents hand? That's like saying just
because your opponent leaves you a long shot with the cue ball
uptable on the rail, you have to shoot the shot he expected you
to shoot. Which is preposterious! You have the right to shoot
any shot you want, any way you want within the RULES. This
also applies when you opponent safeties you. There is not ALL
THAT to kicking, it is just an educated guess, that's all. You are
not shooting 6 rail kick shots all the time you know. And how you
come out after the shot is mostly luck and you know it. To shoot
jump shots well takes knowledge and better execution that a kick
shot does, IMO, and especially to be consistent with making them.
Most kick shots that you miss just take a little adjustment on the
rail, and Walaah, you hit the ball. And Efren was just hoping for
a good hit, or a safety on the long rail on that fabulous 2 rail
kick he made, which was a standard 2 rail kick with a little english.
 
To Jump or Not To Jump...

I ride the fence on this one...I'm old enough to realize that Billiards is a Cushion & Pocket Game...but, with the rise in popularity of sequence games there have been opportunities to innovate...hence 9-Ball and the Jump Cue...the Jump only lends itself to 7/9/10 Ball...jumping is not a reasonable tool in any other games...ie 14.1, 3-C, 1-P etc...there is no substitute for Rail play, if you can't play the Rails, you can't play Pool, IMHO...that said it is more difficult to play a 'lockup' safety with 4-5 balls on the table...your opponent in sequence games will likely have better jumping opportunities, (can pocket a ball more easily), than kicking opportunities...whether you agree or not I believe Jump Cues are here to stay and the stratagies of the game will have to adapt...I have two, and am far from mastering their use...I work with them as much as I work the Rails...so when I find myself in a situation at the table I have the 'Skill' to use the best 'Tool' available...

my 2c-
 
pillage6 said:
So if you say it is a distinct advantage for someone to use a jump cue, why shouldn't you use that to YOUR advantage instead of trying to ban it? .
Click to expand...

good question...who said i wanted to ban it?,,,i just don't like it, don't cry about it when someone pulls it out of his bag, don't play 9ball, don't like 9ball, don't need to buy a break cue, and don't need to buy a jump cue either:)
 
You Can't Hook Your Opponent in Golf

Here's my opinion why some people hate jump cues, and I 'was' one of them. A player spends many many hours becoming a good all around pool player, including handling the cue ball and learning the rails. Plays in a handicap tournament playing a lesser player 6 games to 3, The better player plays a hook that is difficult to kick if you know how, but out comes those older, anyone can use it, jump stick (outlawed now) and wham, makes a good hit and gets lucky to rehook you or sh#t's n the 9-ball. When this started happening I HATED it, I lost to these low handicappers now more than ever before. The jump cue were the reason. Even if you can't play, you could jump - and even if you still can't make a ball, you could jump and get lucky in leave or pocketing a ball. In fact I felt the handicaps should have reflected whether or not those lesser players used a jump stick or not.

All those that learned to kick well felt cheated because someone could now buy something to achieve the same result with out putting in the time. 'We' lost our edge, damnit :(.

Golf is not a good comparison in this case because there is no defense in golf. And every shot is a different length. There are mental comparison's but shouldn't be equipment comparisons.

Today I feel differently. Although the jump cue makes jumping easier, it still takes skill to use it well, and takes knowledge to know when it is your best choice. Plus, it is widely accepted so there are no surprises - you just have to tighten up your safes. I never had a problem with them when equal calliber plays played each other.

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top