Why is it a hoppe ring

[cueball1950]

this has bugged me for awhile now.....Why do they call it a Hoppe Ring? Just because it was on some Willie Hoppe's that were made by Herman Rambow? The white ring at the butt end of a cue was started by Herman Rambow when he was making the Willie Hoppe cue for Brunswick. And then he carried it over when he started making cues on his own for himself.So shouldn't it be called a Rambow ring? anyway, just my ramblings again.........mike

 

[SanDiegoFan]

.....Why do they call it a Hoppe Ring? .... Herman Rambow .... was making the Willie Hoppe cue for Brunswick. And then he carried it over when he started making cues on his own for himself. So shouldn't it be called a Rambow ring?.........mike

Quite often I hear and see where various makers refer to it as a Rambow ring.
Sherbine was the first one I could think of.

But in most of the other descriptions of his cues, he refers to it as a Hoppe ring....



SDF

 

[ribdoner]

this has bugged me for awhile now.....Why do they call it a Hoppe Ring? Just because it was on some Willie Hoppe's that were made by Herman Rambow? The white ring at the butt end of a cue was started by Herman Rambow when he was making the Willie Hoppe cue for Brunswick. And then he carried it over when he started making cues on his own for himself.So shouldn't it be called a Rambow ring? anyway, just my ramblings again.........mike

As old as I am I'm SUPPOSED to know this. I don't

I "think" he put a ring on HOPPE's cue as you indicated above.

 

[cueball1950]

As old as I am I'm SUPPOSED to know this. I don't

I "think" he put a ring on HOPPE's cue as you indicated above.

Well according to a person whose knowledge i respect with the utmost respect (#####Leonard) over on the CCB of billiards digest. Butch and myself have been friends for way to many years for either of us to admit to. (over 40) Butch once told me the Herman Rambow made the willie hoppe cues for brunswick from around 46/47 until somewhere around 56-59. Don't really remember asll of it. but i do remember that he had a falling out with Brunswick and took all the cues making supplies they had with him. And that he started putting the ring on the ones he made for them as to distinguish his work from others that were also making them....good story. and if my memory serves me right. that is the way i heard it.............mike

 

[runscott]

Well according to a person whose knowledge i respect with the utmost respect (#####Leonard) over on the CCB of billiards digest. Buthc and myself have been friends for way to many years for either of us to admit to. (over 40) Butch once told me the Herman Rambow made the willie hoppe cues for brunswick from around 46/47 until somewhere around 56-59. Don't really remember asll of it. but i do remember that he had a fallin out with Brunswick and took all the cues making supplies they had with him. And that he started putting the ring on the ones he made for them as to distinguish his work from others that were also making them....good story. and if my memory serves me right. that is the way i heard it.............mike

That's a very interesting story, but I believe the ivory ring was standard on the early 2-piece Brunswick Hoppe cues (1941-45 approx.), then became an option from approx. 1946-59. For the 2-piece cues made from 1960 on, I haven't seen any with a Hoppe ring (dates are based on label changes I've found in ads and catalogs, so are approximate). I still haven't unpacked all of my Brunswick catalog copies, but I can verify the years that the Hoppe ring was an option, and re-post later. 'TATE' probably knows off the top of his head. Also, great stuff on Rambow in the current Blue Book of Pool Cues, including the years of his association with Brunswick.

 

[cueball1950]

That's a very interesting story, but I believe the ivory ring was standard on the early 2-piece Brunswick Hoppe cues (1941-45 approx.), then became an option from approx. 1946-59. For the 2-piece cues made from 1960 on, I haven't seen any with a Hoppe ring (dates are based on label changes I've found in ads and catalogs, so are approximate). I still haven't unpacked all of my Brunswick catalog copies, but I can verify the years that the Hoppe ring was an option, and re-post later. 'TATE' probably knows off the top of his head. Also, great stuff on Rambow in the current Blue Book of Pool Cues, including the years of his association with Brunswick.

Thanks for the added info. always willing to learn more. I have not read the blue book on rambow yet. now this gives me a reason to. Hopefully my memory is not failing to much and most of what i wrote is correct....................mike

 

[runscott]

According to the Blue Book, Rambow retired from Brunswick in 1950. If that's true, the Brunswick-labeled Titlist/Hoppe cues that you see so often on ebay with the 'block B' could not have been made by Rambow since they came out around 1960. There is one other label variation that spanned 1946 to sometime in the 1950's that also could have been made by Rambow. Cues with these two labels are also the only ones found with the Hoppe rings.

So basically, if the 1950 retirement date is correct, any Hoppe with an ivory ring could have been made by Rambow, but some obviously were not or you would be seeing them going for a fotune on ebay, and they aren't.

 

[TATE]

That's a very interesting story, but I believe the ivory ring was standard on the early 2-piece Brunswick Hoppe cues (1941-45 approx.), then became an option from approx. 1946-59. For the 2-piece cues made from 1960 on, I haven't seen any with a Hoppe ring (dates are based on label changes I've found in ads and catalogs, so are approximate). I still haven't unpacked all of my Brunswick catalog copies, but I can verify the years that the Hoppe ring was an option, and re-post later. 'TATE' probably knows off the top of his head. Also, great stuff on Rambow in the current Blue Book of Pool Cues, including the years of his association with Brunswick.

I think that's right. I'll check the catalogs tonight at home and give you some info. I now have catalogs from the early 40's as well as the late 30's.

My take on it is the Willie Hoppe 2 piece professional cue came with the ivory ring. I think the first one was 1942. So over the years it became the Hoppe-style ring, then just the Hoppe ring for short.

Chris

 

[Sore_Aintya]

What about labels?
Whats the time frame for the different labels used?

 

[TATE]

What about labels?
Whats the time frame for the different labels used?

Can you show a pic of the forearm of the ebony Willie Hoppe professional on the right?

You should check out Runscott's cool web site:

http://www.oldsplice.homestead.com/

There is section on labels, just go to the Hoppe Cues section and click on the labels on the left.

The ebony one looks pretty old to me, maybe 1940's even, but no later than the mid 1950's. That would be a rare cue and should be left "as is", even with the split.

The other one is somewhere around 1967. That was right before the manufacturing was exported to Japan.

It's nice to see an ebony Willie Hoppe Professional.

Chris

 

[Sore_Aintya]

So could this Ebony Hoppe have been built by Rambow?

 

[runscott]

The cue was definitely built during the time when Rambow worked for Brunswick, and the Blue Book says it's been rumored that Rambow made the ebony cues, so next step would be to get a Rambow authenticator like Deno Andrews to take a look at it.

Disclaimer on my web-site - I now have a Mac and can't edit the web-site. Since the last label updates to that site, I've found several examples of the 1946-51+ label. I now think that the 46-51 label was used a few years longer (maybe up to 59) and overlapped the next label (51+ to 59). The '51+ to 59' label is tougher to find and those cues typically had the 2 initials of the purchaser on the butt and nicer shafts than the previous label. I think they might have been special-order cues made in the mid to late '50s, possibly only available by mail-order. It's difficult to say since there is no solid documentation, and the Brunswick catalogs frequently used old pictures that had labels no longer being used. I haven't seen anything in the catalogs indicating mail-order, so I'm just guessing. It's an enigma that I need help figuring out

 

[TATE]

Well, I don't know if there's any way Rambow himself could have built the 1000's of Willie Hoppe professionals that were produced but for sure he oversaw the operation.

So COOL to see this ebony Hoppe. I've seen a lot of ebony Brunswick's and I have a 26 1/2 in ebony, but not Professionals,

What are the veneer colors?

Chris

Edit - I wrote this before Runscott's answer so indeed Rambow may have made this individual cue.

 

[Sore_Aintya]

Veneer coloring.

 

[danlamb]

Hoppe ring

this has bugged me for awhile now.....Why do they call it a Hoppe Ring? Just because it was on some Willie Hoppe's that were made by Herman Rambow? The white ring at the butt end of a cue was started by Herman Rambow when he was making the Willie Hoppe cue for Brunswick. And then he carried it over when he started making cues on his own for himself.So shouldn't it be called a Rambow ring? anyway, just my ramblings again.........mike

From what I've been told,Rambow first starting using the ivory "Hoppe ring" at the request of Willie Hoppe himself.I was also told that cues of the era were not very fancy so it was a big deal to put ivory anything into the cue.Therefore,as a tribute to Willie Hoppe,who also was a spokeperson for BBC at the time,Rambow incorporated the ring into the production line of Willie Hoppe cues.Just my two cents worth.

 

[runscott]

Well, I don't know if there's any way Rambow himself could have built the 1000's of Willie Hoppe professionals that were produced but for sure he oversaw the operation.

So COOL to see this ebony Hoppe. I've seen a lot of ebony Brunswick's and I have a 26 1/2 in ebony, but not Professionals,

What are the veneer colors?

Chris

Edit - I wrote this before Runscott's answer so indeed Rambow may have made this individual cue.

Finally scored one on ebay. I just received a 1941-45 Hoppe with ivory ring, and it's a little different from Sore's, even though they have the same label. Main difference is that the black butt-cap on mine has very rounded edges and the screw-hole is sunk in more and has a flat-head screw rather than a Phillipshead. The screw sticks out way farther than any of my other Hoppes, but joint looks original. Also, appears to be dark brown cocobola. Now I have examples in hand of the first three Hoppes (by label, anyway) produced, so should be able to answer more questions. If anyone's interested I'll post pics or send via email if you pm.

Sore, can you post a pic of the joint of yours? Thanks.

 

[Sore_Aintya]

Yeah, this one has the Phillips head screw.

Now cough up the pictures!

 

[runscott]

Very interesting - the joint screw is a bit shorter than mine also.

 

[runscott]

...

What are the veneer colors?

Chris

Chris, I still haven't seen a Titlist-based cue that wasn't the standard set of 4-veneer colors (maple,brown,green,purple), though some veneers are so faded that they look different. Same for the veneered 26 1/2 cues - I've heard there was some variance, but haven't seen any evidence. The only anomaly I've seen is the Ernie Presto Titlist on Deno's website that has only 3 veneers.

 

[cueaddicts]

Chris, I still haven't seen a Titlist-based cue that wasn't the standard set of 4-veneer colors (maple,brown,green,purple), though some veneers are so faded that they look different. Same for the veneered 26 1/2 cues - I've heard there was some variance, but haven't seen any evidence. The only anomaly I've seen is the Ernie Presto Titlist on Deno's website that has only 3 veneers.

They are out there, just super rare. I had a c.1965 Rambow that was originally made for Danny D. that was a Titlist but nos-standard veneer colors. Seem to remember it having red and/or green in it. Was definitely the same veneer thickness as the the Titlists, not 26.5. Think there is a link to pics of the cue on Tate's website...it appeared on one of those early Wright or Healthware flyers.