I saw it years ago, probably late 80’s. Just didn’t look good. Hippo also has 2 teeth that are ivory-same problem. They are small too and would be for inlays only.
Will Ivory ever become undesirable for cues?
- Thread starter Thunder Thighs
- Start date
Make room, I’ve hunted many elephants for months at a time. There’s plenty in Africa.
What’s criminal is what the Chinese are doing to Africa. We won’t run out of elephants in our life times but they are harvesting WAY too many cows with very small teeth(ivory). Trophy bulls (big ivory) have always been scarce.
FWIW ivory for cues is only useable 20 years after it’s been shot. It needs that long to stop moving and cure. 90% of ivory in cue’s has been legally harvested under CITIES law and no harm was done.
I made some very in-depth posts here many years ago about this topic. I’ve spent lots of time in Africa and know people (still know them) who are in the safari, game management, conservation business. My information is from boots on the ground not TV like 99.9% of misinformed people.
go to Africa and learn, then preach
respectfully
Fatboy
Ivory is almost worthless to me. I can't easily sell it or ship it. Plus Ivory is fragile compared to composite material. A pool cue is sports equipment (Ivory is the last material I would choose for a cue).
I understand old timers still enjoying what they grew up with, but that ship has sailed.
It would be fair if the elephants had guns. Hope you can sleep at night
Pin
Registered
There are two issues, and they overlap. One is sound wildlife and conservation, the other is that people who kill things purely because they get pleasure out of killing things... If you were a child torturing stray cats it would raise serious alarm bells. When an adult does it, it's worse, not better, IMHO.
Pin
Registered
Your point was that you couldn't explain sound wildlife managment and conservation.
My point was that even in instances where sound wildlife management and conservation applies, there's still the separate question of why somebody likes killing things for pleasure.
(Although it's still true that if your 'management' argument is elephants are abundant when you want to kill them, but endangered when other people want to, that's probably wishful thinking to try to justify what you want to believe. Trying to explain intellectual honesty to such people is futile
)
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I won't ever buy anything ivory, especially if it's newly constructed (with legal pre-ban). That said, I would really like to feel the hit of both ivory balls and ivory ferrule.
I'm not a tree hugger and understand proper wildlife conservation. To me people who hunt elephants for ivory (and don't eat them) are not different from the people who kill white tail bucks and cut the horns off and let the deer rot in a ditch. I hunt, hunting is for food and conservation, not a dick measuring or money making endeavor. I have nothing against taxidermy as long as the meat is consumed and the animal not just killed for a trophy. White tail deer are around in insane numbers, to the point they are getting disease. Elephants? I have no idea so I don't feel qualified to have an opinion. Their life is much longer than deer and from what I understand, they breed less, and have less habitat. That would lead me to believe that they are in a worse spot than deer. Look no further than the buffalo if you want an example of killing for profit. We're lucky they even exist today. This pic is skulls only. Imagine how much waste happened. Sure, the pelts and bones were used, but damn.
At one point, ivory was a cutting edge material. Plastics didn't exist. We're past that point. IMO any ivory purchase (even legal pre ban) will simply lead to a demand in poached ivory. If a shady supplier sees the need, it will be acquired by some means. It's how black markets work. Some individuals don't care about the risk and sell illegal things. If you buy the legal things, the stock needs replaced from somewhere.
I'm not a tree hugger and understand proper wildlife conservation. To me people who hunt elephants for ivory (and don't eat them) are not different from the people who kill white tail bucks and cut the horns off and let the deer rot in a ditch. I hunt, hunting is for food and conservation, not a dick measuring or money making endeavor. I have nothing against taxidermy as long as the meat is consumed and the animal not just killed for a trophy. White tail deer are around in insane numbers, to the point they are getting disease. Elephants? I have no idea so I don't feel qualified to have an opinion. Their life is much longer than deer and from what I understand, they breed less, and have less habitat. That would lead me to believe that they are in a worse spot than deer. Look no further than the buffalo if you want an example of killing for profit. We're lucky they even exist today. This pic is skulls only. Imagine how much waste happened. Sure, the pelts and bones were used, but damn.
At one point, ivory was a cutting edge material. Plastics didn't exist. We're past that point. IMO any ivory purchase (even legal pre ban) will simply lead to a demand in poached ivory. If a shady supplier sees the need, it will be acquired by some means. It's how black markets work. Some individuals don't care about the risk and sell illegal things. If you buy the legal things, the stock needs replaced from somewhere.
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Legally harvested elephant meat is consumed, not wasted.
Buffalo were systematically culled, sanctioned by the US government as a key role in genocide.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Well, it's good to hear they are consumed, I was ignorant on the matter. The trouble is, poachers might not be so scrupulous as guys doing it legally. Same with poaching deer. But then you get into the argument that you can't limit crime by desperate criminals by passing laws which only law abiding people follow. I have no issues with legal hunts to manage wildlife, you have to have them. I just personally won't purchase ivory as I'd rather not provide any incentive to poach. I also won't buy deer meat (you can't legally do so) from an individual. If I want deer, I'll hunt it myself with a legal tag and license.
I posted the buffalo thing mainly as a what can happen without concern for protection (and proper management) for wildlife. The buffalo thing isn't the same as elephants, but it sure was a terrible period in history.
EDIT: Just to make clear, I also don't care if anyone decides that owning pre-ban ivory is alright for them. If you like it, enjoy it.
MrKnives
Member
Have you ever visited a village in Africa ravaged by elephants and leaving behind many dead babies. Al things are relative and elephant poachers are the real issue at hand. I would not wish legitamate conservation minded licensed hunters such a fate but some judge quickly and swiftly I suppose