WNT, WPA and 2026
- Thread starter jbart65
- Start date
Saw an interview with Predator CEO Karim Belhaj. Evidently Predator is holding an event in Jacksonville, Fla in December (15th to 20th) that will bring together the best 16 men's player and the best 16 women's players. What Karim called an "all-star" event.
Seems there will be a World Masters type format. I assume it will be one event for the men, one for the women, then a mixed event.
Sure appears to be Predator's answer to the Mosconi.
He did not say how the top 16 among the men and top 16 among the women will be picked. Could be simply WPA rankings, or a combination of rankings and wildcard picks.
Seems there will be a World Masters type format. I assume it will be one event for the men, one for the women, then a mixed event.
Sure appears to be Predator's answer to the Mosconi.
He did not say how the top 16 among the men and top 16 among the women will be picked. Could be simply WPA rankings, or a combination of rankings and wildcard picks.
jax_joe
Well-known member
Watched it the other day. Hopefully it will be more than just that or it will be quite a drop off from last year's event here in JAX. Hopefully he brings back one of the Championship events next year (originally they stated it was a three year venue contract) after rotating out the Women's championship. They have already reduced the event by a day as the Jags have a Monday night game next door.
Probably repeating a few points, but I'm 100% with Predator events over MR. Free to attend, free to watch the streams, correct ball colors, multiple events going on, big prize pools.
Someone somewhere else put it perfectly: Predator asks, "what can I provide the customer?" while MR asks, "what can I get out of the customer?"
Someone somewhere else put it perfectly: Predator asks, "what can I provide the customer?" while MR asks, "what can I get out of the customer?"
I like what Predator is doing, but I don't see it as either/or.
Nothing is free, of course. Somebody is paying for hosting the attendees or letting people watch live streams.
The question is, does "free" in this regard generate more revenue overall than requiring onsite attendees to pay, plus pay per view? If not, the players do not benefit ultimately. They only benefit is if the, well, pool of money grows steadily over time and it gets distributed to the players.
In any case, all sports leagues use different business models, but virtually all require some form of payment from customers. You can still watch your local NFL team for "free" over the air TV, but that's about it. Most have to pay to see their MLB, NBA, NHL and even their college sports team play.
Don't care. Players adjust. All I care about is that I can easily distinguish the balls on TV.
I wouldn't want to see multiple events going on in and around the US Open. Some big events demand their own time in the sun. Players can get too spread out playing multiple events at a time.
That said, Predator does multiple events well, and they are enjoyable.
Predator and WNT are similar, but a cursory look suggests WNT pays slightly more for big men's events relative to Predator.
WPA/Predator 10-ball World title has a $300,000 fund. Ditto for the Predator 8-ball World Champion. The other big Predator events in the past year have paid out $125,000 or $100,000 in total.
All WNT majors with 256 players pay at least $225,000. US Open has a $500,000 fund. The World Pool Championship was paying $1 million, but it might not be held this year. We don't know what the next payout will be in light of the shortening of the deal with Saudi Arabia.
Sorry, I think this is nonsense. Predator is using one business model, WNT another. The only thing Matchroom gets out of me is a subscription for WNT. TV. That's it.
I am happy to pay it. Free for me, the fan, means the players don't get much. Pool doesn't get much ad revenue or attract big companies as sponsors outside of the industry.
I would guess Predator is trying to see if it gets enough eyeballs from "free" viewing that it can attract more fans and translate that into more ad revenue.
It would be great if it worked, but I don't see it happening. My guess is WNT's dual part-pay, part free approach will work a bit better, but I am not sure either Predator or WNT can turn pro pool into a big moneymaker with broad advertising partners.
In order....
1) It's free to me. I don't pay for a subscription or for a ticket.
2) I care as a viewer
3) Multiple events are almost always more interesting, although I agree something like the US Open is great as a standalone.
4) The fact that Predator can put out similar-sized (and sometimes bigger) prize pools than MR without charging the consumer is a huge plus.
5) They are using different business models. And Predator's is more appealing to this fan. It's hard to say the players don't get much when they get about just as much as from MR. Yes, Predator events exist mostly to promote their brand and sell their stuff. But so what? I get to watch great pool. I hope their business model holds up.
Forgot to address this. I hope the two organizations can work together in the future. But for right now, they are largely competitors.
Not that I have heard. Looking at the WPA calendar, there are only 1-2 spots potentially available in either Nov or Dec. It's tight.
Agreed, but I don't expect this to change anytime soon. For now I hope the competition sharpens both of them, and shows us what works and what doesn't.
Your responses to my post above were reasonable. I don't quibble with them.
In my view, the only way pro pool might achieve notably more commercial success is if there is a predictable tour or season, much like with Nascar or tennis and golf. Even then I have my doubts.
Predator hasn't tried to create a season. To me, it just holds a bunch of disparate events, none of them really connected to each other aside from the ability to earn WPA points for admittance to other PBS events.
Predator is also creating all these so-called "World" Championships, and not just in 8 and 10 ball. I find it almost amusing, though it doesn't really matter.
WNT is trying to build an actual tour in which success over the course of the season means something and leads to something. Originally participation in the Mosconi. Now the Reyes. And evidently the World Pool Masters.
It's been a bit of a rough go so far. WNT has clearly made some mistakes (I hate the Reyes format). I won't rehash them. We know what they are.
Predator's new "all-star" format appears to a form of trying to address this.
i like predator events, but it feels like MR events are just harder to win. there's something with the MR stage and setting that shakes the players. prize money is higher but i don't think it's that
I agree. Just seems to be a lot more tension from the quarters on. The stage setup and cameras play a role. The rooms are always darker too, something I noticed recently for the first time.