working on sighting/alignment

PKM

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
For me, when I am down low over the shot a properly lined-up shot doesn't look quite right to me (obviously you can see this most clearly for a straight-in shot). It seems like I can get a more accurate perspective when I am upright, so I'm trying to get lined up while upright and then just trusting it while I'm down on my shot. I suppose that's what you're always supposed to do, but I'm trying to do it more deliberately than I did in the past. I'm not sure how I ever pocketed a ball, maybe I'm overanalyzing it now (I'm also coming back after not really playing for a while).

I've experimented with trying to change where my head is over the cue, but I haven't found any improvement on what I naturally do.

Anyway, most people say that getting low while shooting improves your long-range accuracy. Do you think that is always true, does it depend on your particular sighting perspective? My experience seems to contradict this, although by force of habit I have no current intention of trying to use a more upright stance for the entire stroke. Also, do most people attempt to check and adjust their their aim in that position?
 
Getting low

I prefer to be low over the cue because that is how I started out. I have noticed a few things to watch out for:

1. Your body still needs to be in the correct position relative to the cue ball. You want to have your forearm straight up and down when the c.b. is going to hit the cb in your stroke (some people are now advocating that your arm be slightly forward at this point, but I don't know if there is an advantage). When you are down this low, your forearm "hits a wall" a lot sooner when it is stopped by your bicep.

2. I stand more upright when I am shooting hard to get position. If I stay down low to shoot a hard shot, my arm doesn't allow good enough followthrough.

3. Since I get low over the cue, I have to remind myself to keep some of the weight on the bridge hand. It is easy to feel well-balanced when you are this low without the bridgehand, but I think that when you stroke, you need the tripod effect. This works well with my body alignment because when I first get down, I usually need to move my upper body forward slightly to get the correct arm position, which allows me to shift some of my weight onto my bridge hand.

5. I think the low stance is more suited to the open bridge vs the closed. When I am sighting over my cue, it is difficult to see whether I am stroking straight when I have my finger looped over the cue.

6. This stance may be harsh on your back and or neck.

This information applies to my stance/stroke and may not be suitable for anyone else. I am not a certified teacher.
 
Not trying to pimp for Scott Lee's pool school, but I must say I had a ton of similar questions before attending his school, and not as many after. All were practical, and backed by principles that make sense.

Another item that really helps, and I'm not into gimmicky stuff is Joe Tuckers third eye. Thing is like $20, and can be revealing if your stroke is off center like mine.
 
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Ribbons...

I've been having sighting and alignment problems for about a year, but recently finally sorted them out. They almost made me quit the game a few times, it was so stressful. I couldn't figure out for the whole time why some days I could see a nice straight line, and some days I couldn't. My problems started when I was taught a pendulum stroke. Previously I had been totally self-taught, my mechanics were strange. But, my alignment was good. I could make 18 out of 25 straight in stop shots with my eyes closed (2nd diamond to 2nd diamond, between the corner pockets).

I was going crazy trying to figure out why I couldn't see anymore until I almost bought Joe Tucker's laser trainer (I still might). But then, instead, I bought a ribbon. It was about 1/4 of an inch wide, and long enough to go between the two corner pockets.

I put this ribbon down, pulled it tight, and started shooting straight in shots on top of it. It really opened my mind. I was able to toy with what my sighting picture looked like. I knew the line was straight, it had to be. So the only thing that was changing was the position of my eyes. After playing with the ribbon--experimenting with different stances, different head positions--I finally figured out how to make my picture consistent again, and it felt really good.

I highly recommend this to anyone who is having trouble with their eyes. I think it could be a powerful tool for someone who is just starting to learn the game also.
 
arsenius said:
I've been having sighting and alignment problems for about a year, but recently finally sorted them out. They almost made me quit the game a few times, it was so stressful. I couldn't figure out for the whole time why some days I could see a nice straight line, and some days I couldn't. My problems started when I was taught a pendulum stroke. Previously I had been totally self-taught, my mechanics were strange. But, my alignment was good. I could make 18 out of 25 straight in stop shots with my eyes closed (2nd diamond to 2nd diamond, between the corner pockets).

I was going crazy trying to figure out why I couldn't see anymore until I almost bought Joe Tucker's laser trainer (I still might). But then, instead, I bought a ribbon. It was about 1/4 of an inch wide, and long enough to go between the two corner pockets.

I put this ribbon down, pulled it tight, and started shooting straight in shots on top of it. It really opened my mind. I was able to toy with what my sighting picture looked like. I knew the line was straight, it had to be. So the only thing that was changing was the position of my eyes. After playing with the ribbon--experimenting with different stances, different head positions--I finally figured out how to make my picture consistent again, and it felt really good.

I highly recommend this to anyone who is having trouble with their eyes. I think it could be a powerful tool for someone who is just starting to learn the game also.
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Nice, I've done the same before with small sticky donuts and string to align them. It's funny getting into your stance, knowing that it's nothing but a straight in shot, and how far off your alignment is.
 
Thanks for the input. I use those sticky donuts, but I'm going to use the string idea to make sure they're lined up.
 
There is also the dominate eye theory. Pick a spot on the wall and stare at it, then you put your finger in front of your face, now keep staring at the spot on the wall and close your right eye, does the finger move? now open your right eye, still staring at the spot on the wall, close your left eye, does the finger move? What ever eye that is open and the finger does not move is your dominate eye. I have some friends who improve in there shot making by determining there dominate eye and aligning that eye above their cue. I have to align myself with my cue between my eyes to be able to aim. If I am off just a bit then my aim is off by that much. I am still working on aligning correctly on each and every shot, but I am close.
 
rcarson said:
There is also the dominate eye theory. Pick a spot on the wall and stare at it, then you put your finger in front of your face, now keep staring at the spot on the wall and close your right eye, does the finger move? now open your right eye, still staring at the spot on the wall, close your left eye, does the finger move? What ever eye that is open and the finger does not move is your dominate eye. I have some friends who improve in there shot making by determining there dominate eye and aligning that eye above their cue. I have to align myself with my cue between my eyes to be able to aim. If I am off just a bit then my aim is off by that much. I am still working on aligning correctly on each and every shot, but I am close.
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Never paid that much attention to it, but that is pretty cool. Excellent test for this. Thanks

Chuck
 
There are 3 different steps when you are lining up a shot. The first is to find your aiming line while you are standing. Being above the shot gives you the best opportunity to really see the angles of the shot. Once you have your aiming line and picked out your aiming point, go ahead and put your bridge hand on the table. Stop right there and verify you are still on your line while you still have a somewhat elevated view of the shot. Once you are confident, drop down on your shot. If it looks different, it's probably because you now have a different perspective. If it doesn't feel right, come back up to where you put your bridge hand down and verify again. Finally, when you are down on the shot, you have to trust what you saw when you were above it. If you are making adjustments when you are down on the shot, you are taking a chance on adjusting yourself right out of a good shot.
Steve
 
Well, I just spent 2 hours shooting nothing but straight-ins. After a bit of frustration, and a little help from the 3rd eye trainer, I started to make some progress, forcing myself to accept the correct shot picture. It helped to use a string and make an exact straight line.

I still don't feel completely comfortable, as I was making a lot of consistent errors, but we'll see how it goes.
 
Sighting is an interesting topic to me. There seems to be several myths that I guess are just part of the culture. Consider the idea that you are targeting 1/64" contact on difficult shots and you are trying to hit it with a round ball.

I would not shoot a rifle shot 200 yards with the rifle on my hip. Clint Eastwood could do it -- not me.

The military taught me to hit a bulleye at 500 yards with an M-1 by keeping both eyes open and only looking with one eye. This also for works for playing pool in my book. Oh yeah, you had to "play position" too as you did not know who was behind the next tree or bush.

When I line up for a shot I place my foot along the shot line and my shoulder on the shot line. I kinda aim with my shoulder.

If you watch the stick during the swing you will see that any swing that exceeds the natural pendulum pulls the stick off line and you have to bring it back on line during the follow through. Therefore I have a short swing. People may laugh at Alan Hopkins but he knows what he is doing.

All of these points can be tested by you at the table. It is not a matter of who said what. It is a matter of what really does work.

Recently I found the best way to determine the effect of tip offset and power on swerve and deflection is to place a piece of chalk on the foot rail with the square side facing you at the head of the table. Shoot at the center of the chalk using various techniqes such as offset, power, BHE, etc and you can see the effect of such things as lengthening the bridge, etc.

Personally, I think that pros use such a long bridge (relative to us normals) because they have learned through much experience that the pivot point helps to compensate for deflection. I am not a fan of BHE but the pivot point concept has a significant effect on aiming and compensation for tip offset and these are important topics when aiming and playing position. The two go hand in hand.
 
When i really got into pool, i watched alot of pool on t.v. and Allison Fisher was on so much. Watching her snooker stance and perfect fundamentals i went with my chin over the cue. Then i seen Earl and Niels play with their dominant eye over the cue then i wanted to try it myself. Which felted more comfortable for me, except i had to change my whole game. Straight in shots the shot didn't look like it would go, and i would miss so i had to aim a bit different even it looked like it wouldn't go it would go. But now i can shoot chin about cue or dominant eye over the cue so i don't think it matters too much, personally. But Joe Tuckers Third Eye Trainer really does its purpose. Cause if you know your are hitting the center of the cueball, the aim sight becomes natural. You just get down see your aim point, and know your are hitting center cueball, no english needed you can make your shot. Then and there my sighting and alignment problems go away, all i care about is delivering my stroke.

I also find in my preshot routine, when i go down into my stance and over the shot. When i just get down i rush myself and i take the shot for granted. But when i put my bridge handd on the table and pause to look back at the objectball then to the cueball then get down into my stance. I never have to clear my head and i can trust i did everything right.
 
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PKM said:
For me, when I am down low over the shot a properly lined-up shot doesn't look quite right to me (obviously you can see this most clearly for a straight-in shot). It seems like I can get a more accurate perspective when I am upright, so I'm trying to get lined up while upright and then just trusting it while I'm down on my shot. I suppose that's what you're always supposed to do, but I'm trying to do it more deliberately than I did in the past. I'm not sure how I ever pocketed a ball, maybe I'm overanalyzing it now (I'm also coming back after not really playing for a while).

I've experimented with trying to change where my head is over the cue, but I haven't found any improvement on what I naturally do.

Anyway, most people say that getting low while shooting improves your long-range accuracy. Do you think that is always true, does it depend on your particular sighting perspective? My experience seems to contradict this, although by force of habit I have no current intention of trying to use a more upright stance for the entire stroke. Also, do most people attempt to check and adjust their their aim in that position?
Click to expand...


I was always told make all your decisions while standing up.. find your line while standing.. and stick to the plan when down on the shot...

In my experience second guessing myself when down on a shot always has bad results.. I either miss shape ... miss the ball or both...

I am a firm believer in making all my decisions while standing.
 
Great Belief you have. Also creating a mental picture of the shot, is something to do when standing. Where the cueball will travel and stop, this gives you a good sense of speed control.
 
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