Would you do this ring swap? If so, how would you go about it?

[tg_vegas]

I've got a guy with a Mezz Ignite shaft for his Sawdust cue. He wants the rings from his Sawdust shaft installed on the Mezz Ignite. Not knowing the internal construction of either, and the brass insert on the Mezz, or either of the ID's, I'm not sure I want to risk the Igntie. He doesn't care about the Sawdust shaft, I'm free to destroy it.

Thoughts?

 

[Kim Bye]

First off. What's the diameter of the ringwork?

 

[Michael Webb]

I've got a guy with a Mezz Ignite shaft for his Sawdust cue. He wants the rings from his Sawdust shaft installed on the Mezz Ignite. Not knowing the internal construction of either, and the brass insert on the Mezz, or either of the ID's, I'm not sure I want to risk the Igntie. He doesn't care about the Sawdust shaft, I'm free to destroy it.

Thoughts?

View attachment 757194

Besides what Kim asked,
Does the ignite have a 5/16x14 silver insert or is it a flat faced?
Those silver inserts are quite large inside the shafts.
Caution, caution, caution!

 

[tg_vegas]

Joint Diameters for both are .840, ringwork is same. Rings look to be installed on the plug.

Ignite has a brass 5/16-18 insert that has been bored and tapped to Radial which seems to function very well. Joint is flat-faced.

Neither will get near my lathe until I have a plan, high confidence, and understanding from the customer that this could not work out.

 

[Michael Webb]

Joint Diameters for both are .840, ringwork is same. Rings look to be installed on the plug.

Ignite has a brass 5/16-18 insert that has been bored and tapped to Radial which seems to function very well. Joint is flat-faced.

Neither will get near my lathe until I have a plan, high confidence, and understanding from the customer that this could not work out.

This response is misleading to me.
Is there a brass insert in the Ignite shaft or is it now Radial without the brass insert?
But anyways,
If it was me, I would ask the customer if he minded a longer shaft the thickness of the rings, then I would make a threaded plug to go inside the Ignite at least 11/2" long to screw into the Ignite shaft and leave a larger head on the insert that you could mount the rings to.
This way, your not screwing with the Ignite logo.

Example
I had to work on a regular Cuetec shaft that the insert snapped off along with the outer black ring.
I did the below and I hope it helps.

 

[Michael Webb]

By the way. The initial plug attached to the c/f.
DON'T REMOVE IT,
It's attached very well.
Work inside it!

 

[tg_vegas]

Thanks Mike. I decided to pass on the job as the customer is super picky about look, sound, and feel. Too risky for little $$. If I were to do it, I would follow your advice above and do it. BTW, to answer your question, the ignite has a brass insert with radial threads. I'd have to bore out the insert and then follow your advice on plug/rings

 

[DaveK]

This response is misleading to me.
Is there a brass insert in the Ignite shaft or is it now Radial without the brass insert?
But anyways,
If it was me, I would ask the customer if he minded a longer shaft the thickness of the rings, then I would make a threaded plug to go inside the Ignite at least 11/2" long to screw into the Ignite shaft and leave a larger head on the insert that you could mount the rings to.
This way, your not screwing with the Ignite logo.

Example
I had to work on a regular Cuetec shaft that the insert snapped off along with the outer black ring.
I did the below and I hope it helps.

Not sure it's been said lately but you sir, Mr. Michael Webb, are a TREMENDOUS ASSET to this forum ! I'm sure your time and expertise are greatly appreciated by MANY. I look forward to all your wisdom and I'm not a cuemaker !

Dave

 

[grindz]

For any of the cue makers out there.... I have an old JW and multiple old shafts... can new matching
shafts be made from the ringwork and insert from the old shafts. I have a new unplayed, and a played
shaft from Bill (RIP) that I use, but am curious if I can have 1-2 'extra' made from the old super thin ones
that I no longer use. If so, can new be made w/out sending the butt too? And just send the old thin to remake?

Thx for any responses. td

 

[j2pac]

Not sure it's been said lately but you sir, Mr. Michael Webb, are a TREMENDOUS ASSET to this forum ! I'm sure your time and expertise are greatly appreciated by MANY. I look forward to all your wisdom and I'm not a cuemaker !

Dave

I would second this, without hesitation.

 

[Michael Webb]

Thank you.
You all are to kind.

 

[Michael Webb]

For any of the cue makers out there.... I have an old JW and multiple old shafts... can new matching
shafts be made from the ringwork and insert from the old shafts. I have a new unplayed, and a played
shaft from Bill (RIP) that I use, but am curious if I can have 1-2 'extra' made from the old super thin ones
that I no longer use. If so, can new be made w/out sending the butt too? And just send the old thin to remake?

Thx for any responses. td

Hi Grindz
It's very common to switch the ring work from shaft to shaft. You don't need the butt if you make a sanding mandrell to fit the original shaft before you start taking the pieces off.
It's not real common to switch the inserts but it could be done,
If I may ask,
Why do you need the original inserts?
I'm guessing the JW might have the 5/16x14 acme joint screw which is not common in most shops today, but could be available if you search.

 

[grindz]

Hi Grindz
It's very common to switch the ring work from shaft to shaft. You don't need the butt if you make a sanding mandrell to fit the original shaft before you start taking the pieces off.
It's not real common to switch the inserts but it could be done,
If I may ask,
Why do you need the original inserts?
I'm guessing the JW might have the 5/16x14 acme joint screw which is not common in most shops today, but could be available if you search.

Thx Michael for your response. I just didn't know if it was easier to just cut off the shaft part from the already attached metal.
It is his standard joint screw and thought (I know Nothing about cue making) it may be helpful since it is already matched. I am
interested in having someone do this for me... one, maybe two shafts if the cost isn't too bad.

Preferably experienced at this kind of thing. If anyone would like to contact me via PM, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you again for your time. td

 

[Coos Cues]

I personally wouldn't take this job.

Life is too short and I'm not as stubborn as I used to be.

 

[grindz]

I personally wouldn't take this job.

Life is too short and I'm not as stubborn as I used to be.

I just thought it might be easier to use the old railroad tracks ring work that is matched on both sides of the joint, rather
than trying to remake as it seems quite intricate. Oh well.... just a thought.

td

 

[Michael Webb]

I just thought it might be easier to use the old railroad tracks ring work that is matched on both sides of the joint, rather
than trying to remake as it seems quite intricate. Oh well.... just a thought.

td

Using the ring work is a great option, it's done all the time.
I would skip using the original inserts and use new ones.
On JW, it could be either 5/16x14 or 5/16x14 Acme.
Good luck

 

[Michael Webb]

I've got a guy with a Mezz Ignite shaft for his Sawdust cue. He wants the rings from his Sawdust shaft installed on the Mezz Ignite. Not knowing the internal construction of either, and the brass insert on the Mezz, or either of the ID's, I'm not sure I want to risk the Igntie. He doesn't care about the Sawdust shaft, I'm free to destroy it.

Thoughts?

View attachment 757194

I actually thought of you on my last mezz shaft conversion. And strange eneogh, to fit a Sawdust Butt.
Sawdust sent the customer finished ringwork off two shafts. So I had to make a cup to hold them so I could bore them out. Because of the size of the Mezz united insert body, I used a 9/16x12 phenolic insert.

Hope this helps

 

[jayman]

For any of the cue makers out there.... I have an old JW and multiple old shafts... can new matching
shafts be made from the ringwork and insert from the old shafts. I have a new unplayed, and a played
shaft from Bill (RIP) that I use, but am curious if I can have 1-2 'extra' made from the old super thin ones
that I no longer use. If so, can new be made w/out sending the butt too? And just send the old thin to remake?

Thx for any responses. td

I have had many shafts re shafted by cutting it down to a workable 5 or 6 inch shaft then machining at the top of the ring inward and turning a tenon that was then glued in to a new shaft turned down to match the ring diameter and they have all turned out fantastic.

 

[tg_vegas]

I actually thought of you on my last mezz shaft conversion. And strange eneogh, to fit a Sawdust Butt.
Sawdust sent the customer finished ringwork off two shafts. So I had to make a cup to hold them so I could bore them out. Because of the size of the Mezz united insert body, I used a 9/16x12 phenolic insert.

Hope this helps

You're amazing Mike.. many thanks. I ended up declining this job. It was important that I understood my own level of risk tolerance, and honest assesment of my talent level, especially on a $600+ shaft.

In the months that have past since this post was started, I've challenged myself much more. Today, I'd probably take the job, based upon some great outcomes over the past six months. I'm no cuemaker but work like this can be challenging and fun at the same time. I'm not in it for the money, for sure, but your insight and contributions to my learning process have been very valuable. Again, thank you!!!

 

[Michael Webb]

In the months that have past since this post was started, I've challenged myself much more. Today, I'd probably take the job, based upon some great outcomes over the past six months. I'm no cuemaker but work like this can be challenging and fun at the same time. I'm not in it for the money, for sure, but your insight and contributions to my learning process have been very valuable. Again, thank you!!!

You don't have to be a Cue maker to be a Cue mechanic!
If you understand Cue construction.