WPA Rule question: BIH anywhere in 8 Ball?

[Shaft]

Who are the rules gurus? WPA rule 3.9 for 8 ball says

"If the shooter commits a foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface."​

So, do any of you play WPA rules, or is that just for WPA tournaments? Do you play BIH anywhere? I can see the advantage to guard against intentional scratches, but I can also see that causing some serious arguments.

 

[Fastolfe]

If you scratch on the break, your opponent has ball in hand behind the head string and must shoot a ball on the other side (EDIT: I meant the cueball must pass the headstring then hit a ball). During the rest of the game, fouls result in ball in hand anywhere on the table.

 

[Shaft]

Yes, I saw that and then edited my question.

That was a fast response, though, thanks.

Still interested if anyone plays BIH anywhere.

 

[ctyhntr]

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament

Rules 3.X specifically applies to 8-ball. In reading 3.9, definition of BIH defers to rule 1.5.

1.5 Cue Ball in Hand
When the cue ball is in hand, the shooter may place the cue ball anywhere on the playing surface (see 8.1 Parts of the Table) and may continue to move the cue ball until he executes a shot. (See definition 8.2 Shot.) Players may use any part of the cue stick to move the cue ball, including the tip, but not with a forward stroke motion. In some games and for most break shots, placement of the cue ball may be restricted to the area behind the head string depending on the rules of the game, and THEN 6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement and 6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String may apply.

YMMV

 

[Fastolfe]

Still interested if anyone plays BIH anywhere.

I do as the rules say If anybody has issues with BIH anywhere on the table after the break, I whip out my rule book and lecture them. If they're still not happy, I tell them they should have proposed their rules before playing, we should have agreed on them, and they can go play somebody else.

I never had that situation though. Everybody I know who's not an occasional player plays by the book.

 

[Cornerman]

Yes, I saw that and then edited my question.

That was a fast response, though, thanks.

Still interested if anyone plays BIH anywhere.

Maybe I'm confused at your questoin, but in 8-ball, virtually every organized sanctioned pool tournament or league plays with a ball-in-hand anywhere rule (other than on a foul on a break).

Every professional 8-ball event uses the full-table BIH rule including IPT, WPA, and everything in between. For amateur leagues, BCAPL, VNEA, APA, CPA, TAP, Pot-of-Gold, PAPA, etc., etc., all use full-table BIH.

In my area, if people have played any type of league competition, they will play full-table BIH among other league players. It's not uncommen in my area to have league rules as the house rules.

Fred

 

[ctyhntr]

I fully agree, decide on which rule book to use before playing. Two weeks ago I was practicing and some kids from a couple of tables over asked if making the 8-ball on the break means losing the game. Apparently, loser pays for table time.

I told them that I couldn't really help them settle the issue because it depends on which rulebook you're using. For example on BIH and 8-ball on the break BCA and APA rules are completely different.

http://www.billiards.com/article/official-bca-8-ball-rules
www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf

I do as the rules say If anybody has issues with BIH anywhere on the table after the break, I whip out my rule book and lecture them. If they're still not happy, I tell them they should have proposed their rules before playing, we should have agreed on them, and they can go play somebody else.

I never had that situation though. Everybody I know who's not an occasional player plays by the book.

 

[Shaft]

Thanks Cornerman. I do not play in a league...yet.

Changing subjects (only slightly), I can understand why certain rules had to evolve differently for coin op tables. You cannot respot an 8 sunk on the break or a 9 sunk on a foul, for example, so you have to declare it to be something.

I hope the rules for non-coin tables become more and more standard as time goes on.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Thanks Cornerman. I do not play in a league...yet.

Changing subjects (only slightly), I can understand why certain rules had to evolve differently for coin op tables. You cannot respot an 8 sunk on the break or a 9 sunk on a foul, for example, so you have to declare it to be something.

I hope the rules for non-coin tables become more and more standard as time goes on.

The rules are very "standard", but you have to play with people who know them. Anyone who's serious about pool will know the rules used in tournaments and leagues.

In 8-ball especially there are certain common variations. Before playing, you have to settle whether the table will be open after the break, or whether a player is stuck with what they make. You have to determine what happens if the 8-ball is pocketed on the break. You have to determine whether shots will be called (ball and pocket only). And you have to determine if a scratch while shooting the 8-ball, without pocketing the 8-ball, is loss of game or simply ball-in-hand. Those are the ways legitimate leagues and tournaments commonly vary from the world-standardized rules. The rest of the rules are just "the rules of the game", and should go without saying.

-Andrew

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Bar rules are different than real-world rules. Every bar has their own. It's monkey see / monkey do. People grow up playing pool their entire lives in bars and see people put the CB behind the head string every time so they do as well. I remember telling someone that the rules of 8ball are BIH, and they laughed at me saying "what world do you play on" or something to that affect.

My personal favorite is when someone has 1 ball left and it's in the kitchen and the other player fouls. The incoming player usually has to kick at his/her ball by going up-table and back again to hit their ball. Cute.

That's why I don't play in too many bars.

 

[Pushout]

My personal favorite is when someone has 1 ball left and it's in the kitchen and the other player fouls. The incoming player usually has to kick at his/her ball by going up-table and back again to hit their ball. Cute.

That's why I don't play in too many bars.

Yok! I remember having ball in hand behind the string in just this situation and making what looked like a wild table length bank of the cue ball and purposely scratching. I knew the other guy couldn't hit/make it. Those were the days!

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Bar rules are different than real-world rules. Every bar has their own. It's monkey see / monkey do. People grow up playing pool their entire lives in bars and see people put the CB behind the head string every time so they do as well. I remember telling someone that the rules of 8ball are BIH, and they laughed at me saying "what world do you play on" or something to that affect.

My personal favorite is when someone has 1 ball left and it's in the kitchen and the other player fouls. The incoming player usually has to kick at his/her ball by going up-table and back again to hit their ball. Cute.

That's why I don't play in too many bars.

Spiderman is spot on.

Bar rules =

Don't play for a nickel in a bar until you agree to all the rulings Andrew Manning addressed in his post above. Those rules change by the minute and the shot, and you don't want to get shot any minute.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

yup! good ole bar rules. I'm fine with playing bar rules at the local bar I go to on Fridays.(most bangers wouldn't understand BIH anyway) I love the scratch play when they only have balls in the kitchen. But the thing that gets me is the CB or all ball fouls. Normally I don't care if someone wacks a ball or moves a ball when shooting (mostly just for fun).

BUT I'm playing partners with my buddy and this cocky kid comes into the bar where we are regulars. Me and my partner get down to the 8ball and miss, and they have a few stripes left. He manages to sink his last stripe and gets locked up on the 8ball. Now being a cocky lil mofo he jacks up and hits the CB by accident, so I'm like WTF! and he moves it back... and I'm like WTF!!! Then he jacks up and wiffs, then barely makes contact? Now because we were both on the 8ball I got a pissed becuase it was going to effect the outcome of the game. Well my partner gets up sinks the 8 and scratches So I think I'm done with partners for a while Maybe need to enforce a CB foul only rule too.