Wu beats Efren & Francisco
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sniper said:
From what I have seen I don't think he is the total package yet. But like I said I think he will be when he is older. Much of the flair of his game comes from the fact that he is young, he goes for shots someone who is older and wiser wouldn't bother with. Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I can't help but feel he was very lucky in his two world championship tournaments. In the world 9 ball tourney, he drew Kuo in the final who played just as poorly and shaky as he did. It was in sharp contrast to the Pagualyan-Chang match the year before where mistakes were at a premium. In the World 8 Ball Championship Thorsten had an easy (and I mean easy) to win the match at hill-hill, he uncharacteristicly ignore his pre-shot routines and ended up missing badly.
I would put quite a few top players ahead of him. Souqet, Reyes, Strickland, Hohmann, Pagualyan, Immonen etc.
But I wan't to re-state that I think he will be in the future the best in the world, or at least in the top three.
It has been my experiance that when a teenager has a lot of talent and is able to perform with the best, they are often overrated to be considered better, or sensationalized. As a guitar teacher I have come across many prodigies who were very good, but still had plenty to learn.
Oh yeah and Earl beat Efren 11-6 at the Open.
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I like Wu, he is very good, but he still needs to grow. At 17, he might still learn more or he is already at his peak. He won 2 world championships, but that's about it. He never won IPT qualifier and never won a single SMB Asian tour. Maybe we should wait. I say, don't over rate the guy, he might not be able to take the pressure.
In the Color of Money Hong Kong, where Efren beat Earl, in the last 30 racks of the match, Efren catches fire and breaks and runs about 20 of them. That's not superior play?
i have to agree with cuetechasaurus, during the 3rd night earl was still running out when he had the opportunity but efren was just a machine. if u compare the second day to the last day, efren was the one playing subpar before he stepped it up, while earl was consistent until the very end.
Day 2 vs. Day 3
Day 2 vs. Day 3
Sarcastro said:
Just curious, did you get your name from one of the episodes of The Tick? If so, that character (Sarcastro) was hilarious.
Wu's nine ball break is devastating and perhaps one of the best breaks for nine ball in the world.If Efren could break half that good ,he'd be unbeatable.
When there are only six balls on the table and no clusters, almost every pro in the world can run that kind of table time and time again.Checkout the kids kicking and saftey game and he's far behind Efren and others.
Having said that, this kid is phenominal and will work on his weaknesses. At 17 years old,he's already had an outstanding career.
RJ
When there are only six balls on the table and no clusters, almost every pro in the world can run that kind of table time and time again.Checkout the kids kicking and saftey game and he's far behind Efren and others.
Having said that, this kid is phenominal and will work on his weaknesses. At 17 years old,he's already had an outstanding career.
RJ
I have the complete 13 VHS tape set of the COM Hong-Kong - which I'm in the process of preserving to 8 DVD's (they're not all 2hrs, some are less so I'm fitting them down)
On the 3rd day, Earl was dogging balls, getting out of line, and at one point was just doing idiotic things.
The overall feeling I get was that Earl's game declined. Now, I will agree to some extent about Efren's game. He started making more balls on the break on day 3 which allowed him to run out a lot more racks. Efren's game was top-notch the whole 3-days. Ignore the fact that he wasn't making many balls on the break on day 1 and 2, his shotmaking, position and safety play was the same all 3 days. I didn't see a big increase for Efren other than his break.
I'm sure it was a combination of Earl's breakdown and Efren's starting to make balls on the break. When Efren starting making a comeback, I'm sure that totally fueled the fire in Earl's brain further frustrating him and causing him to lose it.
The COM was truly a contest of mental games. The skill factor was irrelevant. Efren could have given up after being down so many games - but he didn't. Earl wasn't strong enough mentally to persevere and bury Efren being so far ahead.
Earl had to play only 30% to beat Efren towards the end- something that Earl should be able to do even against a player getting on fire. To prove my point, he had enough opportunities at the table to do so. Efren was NOT playing well enough to keep Earl away from the table - Earl blew his chances a number of times - and often giving up his inning on shots that were totally uncharacteristic of his play when compared to day 1, 2 and even the early part of day 3. Earl had multiple innings when he was at 116-117 which, if he had played anywhere near the level of a pro -he could have at least won that game and possibly a 2nd, or even run out the rest of the match to 120.
The camera man did a good job by showing Earl's expression during the whole process. He didn't look like a champion who was 3 racks away from winning, he looked like a frustrated, angry, disgusted, player who thinks it's all over - depite the fact he had opportunities.
Mental game.
On the 3rd day, Earl was dogging balls, getting out of line, and at one point was just doing idiotic things.
The overall feeling I get was that Earl's game declined. Now, I will agree to some extent about Efren's game. He started making more balls on the break on day 3 which allowed him to run out a lot more racks. Efren's game was top-notch the whole 3-days. Ignore the fact that he wasn't making many balls on the break on day 1 and 2, his shotmaking, position and safety play was the same all 3 days. I didn't see a big increase for Efren other than his break.
I'm sure it was a combination of Earl's breakdown and Efren's starting to make balls on the break. When Efren starting making a comeback, I'm sure that totally fueled the fire in Earl's brain further frustrating him and causing him to lose it.
The COM was truly a contest of mental games. The skill factor was irrelevant. Efren could have given up after being down so many games - but he didn't. Earl wasn't strong enough mentally to persevere and bury Efren being so far ahead.
Earl had to play only 30% to beat Efren towards the end- something that Earl should be able to do even against a player getting on fire. To prove my point, he had enough opportunities at the table to do so. Efren was NOT playing well enough to keep Earl away from the table - Earl blew his chances a number of times - and often giving up his inning on shots that were totally uncharacteristic of his play when compared to day 1, 2 and even the early part of day 3. Earl had multiple innings when he was at 116-117 which, if he had played anywhere near the level of a pro -he could have at least won that game and possibly a 2nd, or even run out the rest of the match to 120.
The camera man did a good job by showing Earl's expression during the whole process. He didn't look like a champion who was 3 racks away from winning, he looked like a frustrated, angry, disgusted, player who thinks it's all over - depite the fact he had opportunities.
Mental game.
COM is on youtube
You can watch Earl's collapse at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZQ1UTUO2Gs
You can watch Earl's collapse at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZQ1UTUO2Gs
Bola Ocho said:
I dont know why people are criticizing Wu for not winning any IPT qualifiers. How many IPT qualifiers were held outside of the US? How qualifiers did Wu play in? 1? maybe 2? Everybody knows even the absolute elite pro can't win every tournament he enters, let alone a qualifier with a deep field like the IPT. I've no doubt that he can win an IPT qualifer if he enters enough times.
Also, the field at the US open is not as deep as the WPC. The usually world-traveling pros play in both tournaments, and they're usually some of the better players. However, a large group of the elite Asian and European players are usually absent from the US Open.
Wu is not the "best", that title belongs to Efren. But I think he's proven that he is one of the elites. He's proven that by winning multiple tournaments with elite fields.
Also, the field at the US open is not as deep as the WPC. The usually world-traveling pros play in both tournaments, and they're usually some of the better players. However, a large group of the elite Asian and European players are usually absent from the US Open.
Wu is not the "best", that title belongs to Efren. But I think he's proven that he is one of the elites. He's proven that by winning multiple tournaments with elite fields.
First, you should know before WPA 8-ball and IPT Qualifier, Wu has never played 8-ball game. However he not only won 8-ball world champion but also played well in 2 IPT Qualifiers.
Secondly, after 2006 WPC Wu has made great progress in experiences, mentality and skills (especially his weakness - saftey). As I know, he is ranking no. 1 in 2006 taiwan pro tours up to now. If you think it's easy to dominate taiwan 9-ball pro tours, then I will say: "YES, he is over-rated."
Thirdly, how come you say "i think that with 9-ball anyone in the top tier can win a set against Efren and Bustamante... especially short races in an exhibition match." , have you ever seen those matches?
Secondly, after 2006 WPC Wu has made great progress in experiences, mentality and skills (especially his weakness - saftey). As I know, he is ranking no. 1 in 2006 taiwan pro tours up to now. If you think it's easy to dominate taiwan 9-ball pro tours, then I will say: "YES, he is over-rated."
Thirdly, how come you say "i think that with 9-ball anyone in the top tier can win a set against Efren and Bustamante... especially short races in an exhibition match." , have you ever seen those matches?
StevenPWaldon said:
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Bola Ocho said:
How can you say that it wasnt b/c of Efren's superior play? At one point down the stretch, Efren wins like 15 out of 18 racks, and of the 15 he won i think 9 were break and runs. The ablility to keep your composure and battle back when in the arms of defeat is what makes a true champion in my book.
Southpaw
Bola Ocho said:
Efren wasn't playing good enough? Earl just needed to play 30% of his game to win? You don't have a CLUE what you are talking about. What you said is so ridiculous, I decided to watch it over, (since I like watching it so much) and took notes for each game. Maybe it will refresh your memory
score 109-100 Earl. Efren runs 3-pack. Next game breaks,
plays safe on 1ball, hooks Earl. Earl misses kick, Efren gets ball in
hand, runs out. Efren breaks, plays safe on 2ball, Earl kicks
and hooks Efren back. Efren masses, leaves Earl a tough
bank. Earl makes bank and runs out. Earl breaks and
pushes. Efren makes combination, then caroms 9 in. Efren
breaks, runs out. Efren breaks, makes 9. Efren breaks, runs
out. Efren breaks, plays safe. Earl kicks in ball, runs out. Earl
breaks, plays safe. Efren makes great kick, gets unlucky and
scratches, Earl misses easy 3 ball, Efren runs out. Efren
breaks, runs out. Efren breaks, runs out again. Its now 111
-111. Efren breaks and plays amazing safety. Earl kicks ball
and leaves a shot, Efren runs out. Efren breaks, runs out.
Efren is slug racked, breaks dry. Earl has no shot, trys to
play safe and sells out the 1ball. Efren miscues on 8ball, Earl
gets out. (up until this point, Efren has played PERFECT
pool.) Earl breaks, goes for bank, sells out 2 ball, Efren runs
out. Efren breaks dry, Earl pushes. Efren makes tough 1ball
then plays safe on 2ball. Earl masses, hooks Efren. Efren
kicks and scratches off 2 ball in the corner, Earl runs out.
Earl breaks, misses tough but makeable 1 in the side. Efren
runs out. Efren breaks and pushes out. Earl declines, Efren
plays safe, Earl kicks and sells out. Efren tries to break
cluster and misses, forced to kick and roll up on ball near the
rail. Earl calls foul, they argue. Ref calls no foul. Earl plays
safe. Efren kicks and hits ball, Earl plays safe again, but
leaves edge of ball. Efren plays an astonishing safety. Earl
makes amazing kick and leaves Efren a very tough long
distance combination. Efren fires it in and runs out. Efren
breaks, runs out. Efren breaks, misses tough 6-9 billiard,
Earl runs out. Earl breaks, pushes out. Efren almost plays
great safety, but pockets a ball by accident, and hooks
himself. Efren masses, leaves Earl no shot. Earl tries to play
safe, leaves Efren very tough shot. Efren plays great safety,
Earl leaves Efren a tough billiard on the 9. Efren pockets the
9, but cueball follows it in. Earl runs out. Earl breaks dry,
Efren pushes. Earl makes tough billiard-combination, runs
out. Earl breaks, runs out. Score is 117-117. Near perfect
pool by both players. Earl breaks, cueball flies off table,
Efren runs out. Efren is slug racked, breaks dry. Earl pockets
1 but scratches in the side, slaps the cueball around with his
cue. Efren seems disturbed, misses ball in hand on the 2. Earl misses
a tough shot to the side. Efren runs out with an amazing cut
on the 7. Efren breaks dry. Earl makes great kick-
combination, then makes a great swerve inside english shot
for position, but gets a bad roll and scratches in the side.
Efren runs out.
Final score: Efren 120 - Earl 117
If you read this, you would notice that Earl only misses 3 balls. Two of them difficult because he's on the rail and shooting it thin into the side, and the other one, he missed the 3 because he had half a pocket. Other wise, Earl was in dead stroke and played amazing. The only thing is, Earl didn't have enough opportunities to win. He got some bad rolls at the end. That's not playing "bad", that's bad luck. Meanwhile, the entire time, Efren plays near flawless pool. He was breaking and running out non stop. When Efren didn't have a shot, he would play safe, then run out again. Let me tell you, The way Efren was playing, no player on earth in dead punch could stop him. He was like a freight train all of a sudden.
Almost everyone who has viewed the final day of TCOM say that Efren puts on a display of some of the greatest 9-ball ever played.
How can anyone, in their right mind, say that Efren wasn't playing GOOD? What in the hell is wrong with you? LOL!!!
I thought this is a thread about Wu winning exhibition game in China, how come Earl's name is joining in? To Reyes fans, remember how many had beaten him not just Wu, but still he managed to be right up there. A win from the greatest does'nt mean you are equal to or better than the greatest. And to Wu fans, just wait, he still have a lot of time, don't rush him, he will be up there with them. Good job to Wu. Hope you grab your first SMB tour win.
sniper said:
It is a matter of personal opinion. 250 players, it is an open tournament meaning anybody can enter, the best players in world come every year. I can't fathom anyone saying that it is an easier tournament.
O
onepocketchump
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Cameron Smith said:
My opinion is that when you have a double elimination tournament where you play races to 11 and have something like a max of 10 matches (if you lose in the first round) to win it is a lot easier than having to play your way out a group of champions.
In the WPC you have to first survive the group stage where you are playing short sets (anyone can win with a few lucky rolls) against everyone else in the group. Then you advance to the one loss stage where you are playing longer races against ONLY champions with a loss meaning you are out.
This is definitely more pressure than the US Open. And the final match, come on, the World Championship is infinitely more prestigious than the US Open. Not only is the money bigger but every single player had to play their way in through accomplishments or qualifiers.
Not so in the US Open. Any male with $500 bucks can get in. I can pretty much guarantee you that ANY QUALIFIER from Germany is likely to be a better player than just about 25% of the field at the US Open. This is based on the fact that the German system forces the players to EARN their nominations to world events.
For years the US Open was the de facto World Championship because no world championship existed. Now there is an in facto and legitimate World Championship and the person who wins that is a bonafide champion and member of the elite pool players on Earth.
John