You make the call.
- Thread starter RAZOR ROG
- Start date
daytonajoe
Deceased
flop
Your choice
if he is a weak breaker, allow him to break again,
or it is your break
Your choice
if he is a weak breaker, allow him to break again,
or it is your break
The other day a guy broke and launched the cueball off the table. I politely went to get it and when I handed it back to him he didn't say thanks. I got mad and said "Do you think balls like it when they get hit that hard? Lets see!" and I kicked him in the nuts as hard as I could. That was friggin awesome.
It is a foul and an illegal break. Most 8 ball rules require a certain number of balls to hit a rail. This all depends on what set of rules your playing under.
The foul means it is the incoming players turn.
The illegal break means he is racking for you and you are playing as if it was the first break.
The foul means it is the incoming players turn.
The illegal break means he is racking for you and you are playing as if it was the first break.
CaptainJR said:
So far 3 out of 3 agree with the way I called it.
APA rules are a little ambiguous. Rule 3 states:
3. BREAKING -- "Breaking safe" or soft is not allowed. For a break to be legal, at least four balls must be driven to the rails or a ball must be pocketed. Otherwise, the balls are reracked and rebroken by the same player. A game not legally broken but resulting in a scratch or foul will be reracked and broken by the opposite player. The rack must be struck before the a foul can occur. The head ball or the second ball must be struck on the break and the cue ball may not be shot into the rail before the rack. The League Operator may make judgments and issue penalties to teams and players who are not breaking hard. Breaking just hard enough to comply with this rule is not a guarantee against penalties. Break as hard as you can with control.
Yet, rule 11.f states "Anytime the cue ball goes on the floor, or otherwise leaves the playing surface.", it is a ball in hand foul.
He never touched the rack. Does that mean the foul didn't occur?
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RAZOR ROG said:
In this instance, the APA rule is not ambiguous at all. The player failed to break legally and is allowed to break again. No foul is attained because the game does not begin until a legal break. It's different in the BCA and all previous answers would be correct.
Well, I don't and won't play APA and quite frankly don't give a shit what rules they play by, but in the poolroom, the game does not start until the cueball makes contact with the object ball. It's no different than when someone miscues and the cueball rolls a few inches or misses the rack entirely. The original breaker tries again!
just more hot air!
Sherm
just more hot air!
Sherm
cuesmith said:
That's a rule among friends but in standard tournament play, you don't break again and it's a foul.
For grins and giggles...
Back when I power broke 9 ball all the time, I was playing on a regular
bar table (little 7 footer), and my opponent was standing directly behinnd
the rack against the wall which was not far from the table. I told him
that I was known to jump the table sometimes, and that he had better
move when I broke. He insisted he was OK, so I broke the balls.
Well, you guessed it. I hit the rack hard on the 1, the cueball took flight
straight back, and whammed the guy in the forehead right above eyes
just like a movie or something. The force knocked him a few inches backward
into the wall therefore absorbing all the force of the 'shot'. After a few minutes
of holding fingers up for him to count, and letting him know what his name
is, it didn't matter at all that I jumped the table. He couldn't make 2 balls
in a row, and I won the game! ..... lol
Back when I power broke 9 ball all the time, I was playing on a regular
bar table (little 7 footer), and my opponent was standing directly behinnd
the rack against the wall which was not far from the table. I told him
that I was known to jump the table sometimes, and that he had better
move when I broke. He insisted he was OK, so I broke the balls.
Well, you guessed it. I hit the rack hard on the 1, the cueball took flight
straight back, and whammed the guy in the forehead right above eyes
just like a movie or something. The force knocked him a few inches backward
into the wall therefore absorbing all the force of the 'shot'. After a few minutes
of holding fingers up for him to count, and letting him know what his name
is, it didn't matter at all that I jumped the table. He couldn't make 2 balls
in a row, and I won the game! ..... lol
Jude Rosenstock said:
Hey Jude, APA disagrees:
"thank you for contacting the National Office of the American
Poolplayers Association, Inc. with your question. Definition of a
scratch: pocketing of the cue ball or driving the cue ball off the
playing surface and onto the floor. Now if you would refer to page 45 of
the Official Team Manual it states; If the break does not qualify as
legal and results in a scratch, the balls are reracked and broken by the
opposite player. So the answer to your question is; the opponent would
break. Thank you for your participation in our organization, good luck
and good shooting!"
Betty A. Dillender
American Poolplayers Association, Inc.
bdillender@poolplayers.com
RAZOR ROG said:
Well, that contradicts how the L.O. in New York City has ruled and it's not consistent with how it's spelled out in the rule book. If the game cannot begin until there is a legal break, how can you attain a foul? This would mean that every time an s/l 2 tapped the cue-ball past the headstring, they'd lose the right to break. That's simply not true. I think you should email them back, tell them I think they don't know what they're talking about and to specifically reference their own rule book. If they can't refer to specific rules, tell them it's time to make some amendments then if they plan on passing that ruling around.
If you want to split hairs the game of pool does not technically begin until the rack is broken. Since the rack wasn't broken no game has begun thus there can be no foul yet.
I have been running tourneys for yrs and that would be my call. APA is there own thing and I guess if published prior they can make up any rule they like.
I have been running tourneys for yrs and that would be my call. APA is there own thing and I guess if published prior they can make up any rule they like.
RAZOR ROG said:
In a friendly game, allowing opponent to rebreak would be customary. In a gambling match, loss of break would be customary. As noted in other threads, though, for tournament or league play, it's best to carry the rules (of the sanctioning organization) with you if you can. The lack of standardization of the rules has often been bemoaned on this forum. Be prepared for the inevitable situations in which the rules have to be referenced.
Who cares ...
Anyway? Everyone knows that between BCA, Valley, and APA, that
APA is the red-headed stepchild of leagues. Most players follow BCA
rules when matching up for money, just as they use Texas Express rules
for 9 ball when playing for money unless otherwise stated and agreed upon.
Just tap that cue over the headstring, and try to get the cue back to break
again in a money match .... lol and you will have the biggest argument
on your hands. And it is not necessarily your rack for your opponents break, since BCA and Valley both have optional 'Rack your own' now.
General all purpose rule that applies, "If you f**k the break up, it is your
opponents break".
I bet I can tell you one you don't know, according to BCA rules, you can
hit any ball in the rack to make a legal break. You do not have to hit
the 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd ball. I know this because I was playing tournament with BCA rules, and I was gearing up for a hard break, and I miscued, went
left of the rack, came off of the foot end rail and english caused the cue
to hit between the left wing ball and the ball next to it, and I made a ball
on the break. My opponent jumped up and down, hollering that it was an illegal break, and they looked it up, and nowhere does it state you have to
hit any particular ball on the break, so I got to continue shooting, and I ended up running the table, and boy, was he frosted .....lol
Anyway? Everyone knows that between BCA, Valley, and APA, that
APA is the red-headed stepchild of leagues. Most players follow BCA
rules when matching up for money, just as they use Texas Express rules
for 9 ball when playing for money unless otherwise stated and agreed upon.
Just tap that cue over the headstring, and try to get the cue back to break
again in a money match .... lol and you will have the biggest argument
on your hands. And it is not necessarily your rack for your opponents break, since BCA and Valley both have optional 'Rack your own' now.
General all purpose rule that applies, "If you f**k the break up, it is your
opponents break".
I bet I can tell you one you don't know, according to BCA rules, you can
hit any ball in the rack to make a legal break. You do not have to hit
the 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd ball. I know this because I was playing tournament with BCA rules, and I was gearing up for a hard break, and I miscued, went
left of the rack, came off of the foot end rail and english caused the cue
to hit between the left wing ball and the ball next to it, and I made a ball
on the break. My opponent jumped up and down, hollering that it was an illegal break, and they looked it up, and nowhere does it state you have to
hit any particular ball on the break, so I got to continue shooting, and I ended up running the table, and boy, was he frosted .....lol