Your Hands....

The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
I have been able to start playing a little again... Actually am forcing myself to... At least for November I was getting out 3 nights a week. And for the last year I have played one night at least..

With losing Royce last week I think I am going to keep it up and maybe play on the weekends again as well.. Working weekends ended last Wednesday when I took a hard look at what the cost of burning candles at both ends could entail. Plus my normal weekend calls will now go unanswered...

Enough of that tho... On to the topic.....

Your hands.....

I have likely had more layoffs than periods of play in the last 2 decades... Funny how that works... You love the game but responsibilities over take wants and desires and the next thing you know you haven't hit a ball in a week or a month or a year......

Every time I come off a layoff I always wonder if this is the time that I won't be able to make it back to where I was and this time has been no exception.. I still may not make it completely back but this last month has reminded me of something I knew when I wore a much younger man's clothes...

Your Hands are Smarter than Your Head will EVER be......

I would say that the whole goal of fundamentals should be to get your hand, eye and brain in a position for your hand to deliver the tip of the cue with accuracy and repeat-ability...

I am sure that is not earth shattering but here is where I think I don't agree with normal fundamentals... I think that the nuances in the grip are a huge line in the sand between different levels of players.. I think a neutral static grip could be a variable that may hurt some players in development.....

I find now that I am getting close to my old speed that the only thing I vary is my grip and it adapts on a shot by shot basis... I didn't consciously start altering it I started noticing that forcing a neutral grip was starting to feel wrong on tons of shots and started feeling the shot and letting my grip would do whatever my subconscious chose for us....

granted I am not a professional player but after 30+ years I have learned a few things... And I am not saying this is 100% right for everyone since we all have different power sources for the stroke... Just food for thought and wondering about the thoughts of others......

I have always said that controlling the tip of the cue is the most important part of a good stroke regardless of how pretty the stroke was or how fundamentally sound it was... I think it comes down to the hands... Some of us will have hands of an artist and some of us will have hands of stone.......

Chris
 
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My problem has always been that my grip is too inconsistent. I have long fingers and thin palm so there has never been a comfortable way for me to grip the cue consistently. It seems my stroke comes off when my fingers "break" occasionally during the forward motion creating an off center hit or a loss of pressure on cue which leads to errors in speed and position play. For me the cure has been finding a solid grip that doesn't change from one shot to another. I've watched a lot of top players' grip hands, and almost everyone seem to have a natural way of gripping the cue, meaning that perhaps their hand, palm and fingers enable the natural grip. I've seen an olympic level shot putter who has a solid game with a hand a size of a dinner plate, really thick palm and stubby fingers shooting with a "pinch" grip using only his thumb, index and middle finger tips.

Do you think your hand and finger dimensions have an effect on how natural the grip comes to a player? There isn't too much deviation in cue thicknesses so the butt end thickness of the cue is almost the same. What I think is what ever works for you, stick with it.
 
mjantti said:
My problem has always been that my grip is too inconsistent. I have long fingers and thin palm so there has never been a comfortable way for me to grip the cue consistently. It seems my stroke comes off when my fingers "break" occasionally during the forward motion creating an off center hit or a loss of pressure on cue which leads to errors in speed and position play. For me the cure has been finding a solid grip that doesn't change from one shot to another. I've watched a lot of top players' grip hands, and almost everyone seem to have a natural way of gripping the cue, meaning that perhaps their hand, palm and fingers enable the natural grip. I've seen an olympic level shot putter who has a solid game with a hand a size of a dinner plate, really thick palm and stubby fingers shooting with a "pinch" grip using only his thumb, index and middle finger tips.

Do you think your hand and finger dimensions have an effect on how natural the grip comes to a player? There isn't too much deviation in cue thicknesses so the butt end thickness of the cue is almost the same. What I think is what ever works for you, stick with it.
Click to expand...

Actually I do... I have a large palm and short fingers for the size of my hand... ALL of my playing cues are smaller diameter...

I have several D Series McDs and they are huge... I collect them but cannot play with them.....
 
Some people just have a natural gift... Hand eye coordination. It plays a massive part in the game I feel. The eyes play the biggest part in the game I believe. Get your eyes right and your hand will follow them. I say the eyes control the tip... They control the hand which in turn controls the tip. Try placing your head... Or eyes outside of the cue to the extreme and try cueing straight. Its nearly impossible.
 
I have good hand-eye coordination, but ADD or something. So I can see where to aim/hit, but get so distracted by a million other things that the coordination is for naught.
 
I've experienced the same thing regarding the grip. For me, the grip gives a me a sense of direction of the cue. I also grip the cue not to far from the balance point and don't have a low head stance.

For me, something else I noticed is the distance from bridge to grip. I've found that there is a certain distance between the two that is right for me.

I have what I call a grip forward stance meaning the grip is forward of my hips. Its hard to describe. But with gripping not far behind the balance point, it seems the cue is more in front of me than beside me.

It seems to work for me. I've got a really good stroke and real good ball control.

Btw......I shoot one handed shots......eyes no where over the cue. It's not that hard to stroke straight. Just takes practice and in 14.1, is a necessary skill at times.
 
If you know where to hit it, what speed to hit it, what English
to apply, have good fundamentals, etc. the best way to deliver
your stroke is straight back and straight through.

As far as grip, mine's a fairly light grip. The only time I accidently
grip the butt too hard is when a power draw shot comes up. I
know I can delivery a stroke with a semi loose stroke for a power
draw, but at times I'll accidentally tighten my grip on that type of
shot and cause a miss(bad miss on occasion).

I'm quite sure your fundamentals are sound, Chris. If it were me
in your situation of coming back from a delay, I'd focus on 3 things.
A fairly loose grip, straight back and straight through on the stroke
as you hit the cue ball, and stay down on the shot for a second or
two. I have a problem with the last one, hard for me to stay down
like I should. But hey, Efren raises up, so it can't be too bad.

Good luck. I need to get out too, maybe I'll see you around Ktown:)
 
I know the feeling Renfro. I was forced to take last year, as well as about the first half of this year off, and have struggled with getting back to where I was. It's amazing how when we let instinct take over, we usually do the right thing. Everything told me starting again I would have to think more, observe shots more, and force myself to focus more. I'm almost finding the exact opposite to be true, and the more I just let things happen the better I play. Now if I could just get back into that gear where when I have to think shots out I can do the right things as well haha.
 
I've decided there are two major culprits in playing Pool. The Grip is numero Uno, the eyes are number TWO.

We've taken many many videos of players with our Video Analysis System. It is a four camera system. One is for the front, one for the back, one for the side & one for the EYES,

We put a laser pen in a cue adapter for the butt. It projects it's light on a white board, with a black stripe.

The back camera catches the grip, the front camera catches the cue tip & the white board, the side camera catches the motions of the stroke. Being able to see the eyes up close & the laser on the white board tells a lot a players stroke.

Being able to see this in slow motion can help a player to overcome some unwanted facets of their stroke.

After seeing many a player on Video, I'm convinced the GRIP is facet of the stroke that needs to be worked on. There so many variations of unwanted styles, it would be hard to list them here. A picture says a thousand words, a video says millions of words, real quick. Videoing yourself is a worthy endeavor.
 
Pidge said:
Some people just have a natural gift... Hand eye coordination. It plays a massive part in the game I feel. The eyes play the biggest part in the game I believe. Get your eyes right and your hand will follow them. I say the eyes control the tip... They control the hand which in turn controls the tip. Try placing your head... Or eyes outside of the cue to the extreme and try cueing straight. Its nearly impossible.
Click to expand...

Amen on the had/eye coordination gift. I knew a guy like that. Local golf pro said this kid had a swing the first time he picked up a club that people worked years to develop. He was the local football QB, did the punting as well...A free ride scholarship to a private college.

I was envious of his natural abilities...but as it turned out, his athletic career got cut short. An early marriage, he went to work in industry. No more school.

I'm one who struggles with learning the basic fundamentals...but I think you're right about getting your eyes right...when I focus on the object ball spot, pay attention to lining up, following through, and staying down...balls go in.
 
Chris,

I've said on here many times now, that the connection to the cue has to fit the intended type of stroke that one will use.

There is a lot of discussion about a lot of other matters here but not really that much actually about connecting to the cue & when it is done there is a lot of assumptions made as to the type of stroke being made.

The 3 need to be in sync. The mind, the eye, & the hand to the cue.

I too just let my hand connect however it (my subconscious mind) wants to connect to the cue.

Sure, I have a predominant connection, but it certainly varies depending on my intent for different shots & it's not anything conscious, normally. Normally it just does it on it's own.

Sometimes I will tighten it purposely & put more downward force on my bridge hand but even for them they sometimes just happen, but I notice it & then do it consciously.

When I was trying CJ Wiley's version of TOI, my 'grip' hand just gravitated to a more firm & elongated connection & also 'had' to rotate slightly clockwise in order to accommodate the type of stroke & hit that I sort of had to use to get the TOI to work right for me.

Sorry for the personal sort of specifically useless rant.

Best 2 YOU & All.
 
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