First and hopefully not the last thing we ever agree on.
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"Aiming Systems" are Junk, DO the Work!
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
First and hopefully not the last thing we ever agree on.
I think we agree on many things. But when I happen to pay attention to a certain "spot" on the ob, I know for a fact it isn't the contact point. And I'm not going to assume anyone else looking at a certain spot or instinctual location for CB placement happens to be using a specific aiming system, other than their optical system and individual sense of perception, which all boils down to using instinct.
If a player stands behind the ob and locates the contact point, then amazingly is able to keep that point in focus while he changes to a behind-the-CB perspective, then aims through ccb away from that exact contact point to where he thinks is about the right line to allow the surface of the CB to hit that contact point....well, that guy is using instinct, estimated guesswork, not a system. If he gets behind the CB and imagines a line from the inverse proportional contact point on the CB to the contact point on the object ball, then does a parallel shift from that line to a center CB line, he is not depending on instinctual guesswork -- he is using a system to ensure the CB heads in the right direction.
Same thing with ghostball. You imagine the spot or location where the cue ball needs to end up. Unless you mark the cloth or have excellent visualization skills and keep that spot in focus, you are using an estimated guess when you send the CB toward that spot. Eventually you get a good feel for it, hopefully. My system works the same way, only faster at getting a player to that good feel point. The reason why is because the spots you are aiming for are in relation to distinct fractional portions, 1/2 hit, 3/4 hit, full hit, etc.... Regardless of shot perspective, these spots are always the same, and are much easier to imagine than a ghostball spot located somewhere behind the OB.
I don't disagree with you at all regarding Ghostball. And yes, fractions have always been a better way to go. But what you DON'T know and have zero clue about is that CTE is actually the easiest. BUT, let's not open that can of worms back up again.
The way I see it is there's a lot of similarities between your fractional aiming system and Joe Tucker's Contact Aiming System.
The difference is he uses numerical contact points from center to edge along the equator of both balls ranging numerically from 0-9. His training balls are a great invention to help train the eyes and brain to do away with guesswork and intuition.
You set both balls anywhere on the table with the numbers aligned to a side rail and they link up with each other for the correct cut angle and contact points.
The similarity is both of you have a table grid illustrating what numerical contact point or fraction in your case should be the identifier to make the shot. He invented it well before you did but it is what it is for the two systems.
Does it take work to learn and visualize it? HELL YES! A lot of hours on the table but it's time well spent for any and all aiming systems. Why guess each time you have a shot and start from scratch when you can just flat out know and the only think left is the delivery of the stroke?
After learning a certain system and using it for a long time, it all seems instinctual and not much to think about. It's called being in a state of UNCONSCIOUS
COMPETENCE. But we can't forget what it was that got us there even if it gets to a point of automatic because it's still there doing it's thing in the deep recesses of our brain.
There are 4 stages of LEARNING:
Here are the 4 stages:
1.Unconscious incompetence. You don’t know what you don’t know.
2.Conscious incompetence. You know what you don’t know.
3.Conscious competence. You know how to do it, but you have to think your way through it.
4.Unconscious competence. You can do it without thinking. You just know what to do.
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The Billiards Digest article SpiderWebbComm posted is titled aiming "secrets", not aiming "systems". The reality of it is that none of the aiming secrets described in the article are really aiming "systems". That's why eager pool players continued to struggle even after these pros revealed their "secrets". The secrets were nothing more than common methods of locating where the CB needs to be in order to pocket the OB. Anyone can stand behind the OB and see where the CB needs to end up. Actually getting it to that location from standing behind the CB is when it becomes a tricky feat.
Other than CJ Wiley, no pro player even hinted about a secret way of accomplishing this feat. That's either because none of them were using any secret aiming systems, or because they just didn't want to spill beans. I'd say most learned the old-school way through trial and error by shooting countless of shots based on visualizing a ghost ball or contact point. These methods are not secrets, and they are not systems.
Sure, each of these pros had a pre-shot routine and visualized a GB or contact point that gave them a direction for alignment, but the act of sending the CB down the exact line needed was a skill they developed over time, not a system of moves or steps that ensured they were dead on target everytime. I'm not sure who came along and labeled basic ghostball and contact point aiming as "systems", but it seems to me these are traditional learning techniques designed to eventually provide the player with a good feel or instinct.
Traditional fractional ball aiming was also a non-system learning process. Knowing the fractional aim was a matter of interpretation based on experience, unless the player used an accurate system that lead him to the correct fractional aim without relying on experience. But that didn't seem to exist, unless it was a well-kept secret.
Aiming systems provide a step-by-step procedure for determining the aim line needed to get the CB in the right location to pocket the OB. They allow players to improve at a rapid pace when compared to traditional learning techniques. Like it or not, the proof is obvious.
I realize this post was novel length, sorry.
Other than CJ Wiley, no pro player even hinted about a secret way of accomplishing this feat. That's either because none of them were using any secret aiming systems, or because they just didn't want to spill beans. I'd say most learned the old-school way through trial and error by shooting countless of shots based on visualizing a ghost ball or contact point. These methods are not secrets, and they are not systems.
Sure, each of these pros had a pre-shot routine and visualized a GB or contact point that gave them a direction for alignment, but the act of sending the CB down the exact line needed was a skill they developed over time, not a system of moves or steps that ensured they were dead on target everytime. I'm not sure who came along and labeled basic ghostball and contact point aiming as "systems", but it seems to me these are traditional learning techniques designed to eventually provide the player with a good feel or instinct.
Traditional fractional ball aiming was also a non-system learning process. Knowing the fractional aim was a matter of interpretation based on experience, unless the player used an accurate system that lead him to the correct fractional aim without relying on experience. But that didn't seem to exist, unless it was a well-kept secret.
Aiming systems provide a step-by-step procedure for determining the aim line needed to get the CB in the right location to pocket the OB. They allow players to improve at a rapid pace when compared to traditional learning techniques. Like it or not, the proof is obvious.
I realize this post was novel length, sorry.
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I'm sorry also. My posts have been novel length.
BUT NO MORE on this subject and this thread. I won't be writing or responding. It's turning into idiocy and enough is enough. Do as you wish.
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Ok. That will be refreshing. Thanks.
Can someone who has been playing pool for longer than I have, which is over 30 years, please tell me when the term "aiming system" referring to pocketing balls, not kicks or banks, came about. I never heard of an "aiming system" until the mid to late 90's, and I was getting poolmag, and Billiards digest, and a couple if other pool magazines back then. I've had about every book written on pool and don't recall anything back then talking about "aiming systems". I'm just curious.
Lot's of "systems" were marketed in the 90's --stuff like spray on hair systems, flatten your abs systems, egg cooking systems, and so on. They all end up in the trash bin quickly.
Lol. I wish I had a good system for aiming pool balls back in 1983-84. Instead I spent many many hours over a 2 or 3 year period learning by trial and error, shooting to where I thought the CB should be based on looking at the OB and the pocket. That's what ghostball and contact point aiming means for newbies -- trial and error until you get a good feel or instinct for it. Not too concrete, which is why it takes a lot of work.
Exactly! How many people have spent years trying to learn CTE, yet have no clue what they are doing. I can't even imagine trying to do the little bitty foot shifts around the table like what Stan does. Even if I could, I wouldn't. AND, they can't hit the thin, middle or thick parts of the pockets. THAT is the crime and everybody knows it. I (all of us) can set up shots where one high english shot will hit the end rail if the ball is hit thin into the pocket and another where it will scratch if hit thick into the side pocket. What do the "aiming systems" do about that? I know a guy that can teach someone to aim over the weekend!
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Eventually, through repitition, your brain will figure out how any to make most things work. If not, you lose interest in it and move onto something else. I have no doubt your instructor is has excellent aiming skills. But to assume anyone can step up and do it as well as he can after learning how he does it is simply incorrect.
It sounds like he uses an experienced feel for shooting balls, and though he might be able to demonstrate it, it's very improbable that a player lacking the proper experience or feel could produce similar results without first spending a few weeks (if not months) practicing. I know this called doing the work. And for players that have all the time in world, going this traditional route of aiming is fine.
Brian, at least with your fractional system, one could notice the fractional entry into the middle of the pocket and just fudge a bit to give it side to side, but as far as I can see with the others, they don't have that latitude. We set up shot after shot ( and I shot them) on the 9' pool table where a thin, middle, thick shot into a pocket makes a world of difference in the way a CB acts around it. Why is that so undauntedly uncommon around here? Doesn't anyone care about how the CB runs after the OB is hit or is this column ALL about aiming the ball into the damn pocket and who cares about what happens to the CB? Is that the "aiming system"?
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Brian, Dan, Dave, etc., I invite anyone to come on out to Portland before spending time on these "aiming systems" and let a 50 year full time teacher fill you in. Stan has sold many of his DVD's and held many lessons at his house, yet very very few have learned his system. Instead of spending 2-4 years learning CTE, spend a few days on a fantastic road trip. This man will teach you how to aim in a few hours and you won't have to result to DVD's, books, etc. I invite you out and will spend two hours of the lesson time with my own $$$ with him and IF you are not impressed with his method will save you years of your time. Don't tell me about it until you do because you don't know.....
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Any player with a few solid years under their belt knows how to move the CB by hitting a shot a little thin or a little thick into the pocket as needed. It's called feel. It is something a player develops over time, not something an average player can learn or master over the weekend.
When it comes to aiming systems, if a player solely relies on a system for every single shot, never pushing the limits and tweaking certain shots along the way, they won't develop much of a feel for pocketing balls. But if a player pays attention to the finer aspects of aiming with their particular system or method, watch exactly where the shots fall into the pocket, they will quickly begin to develop a feel for manipulating the angles, and from then on their skill level will exceed the limits of whatever system they were using. At least that was my goal in writing Poolology and introducing my system.
I want players to use my book as a tool for improvement, tweaking and fine-tuning the numbers, testing the limits, until one day they discover that they've moved beyond the system and play primarily by feel/instinct. It's only been out since February, so I have a long wait to see how effective it'll actually be at accomplishing this.
YES, why not learn that instead of the foot shuffling, over under, under/over, pivot, 15,30,45 degree shift, perception (which no one knows anything about)? I'll take that lesson and I have a guy that teaches it.
I believe Stan Shuffett knows very well how to cheat a pocket thin or thick and how to move the CB. No doubt about it. I think what happens is average players want to improve, and at the same time many better players want to help them. That's why these better players become instructors or write books or make DVD's. A aspiring player asks, "How can I improve my shot making skills?", and the better players discuss fundamentals and basic aiming. They can't teach the feel or instinct that they probably spent years developing, so they introduce aiming systems or methods that they believe will help. That includes your guy too.
Could be. My instructor has studied Stan's DVD, has had many students that have the DVD's and studied his material and gone hopeless. Several have flown out to Tennessee to "Learn" the method at $60 per hour and it still doesn't help according to my instructor that has helped them since. WHY take the 2-10 years learning an "aiming system" when it can be learned over the weekend? None of us have understood the "perceptions", the pivots, the over/ under, etc. crap. The other criteria involved with the little bitty foot shuffling and the rest of it. My teacher has taught dozens of guys that have been out there, studied his lessons, and converted them to how to aim in a weekend. Why is this so hard?
YOU will never learn how to really aim. YOU will never reach your full potential.
If anyone believes that you have spent more than a few hours at a table with my work, they're fooling themselves. The only way you that you will ever get CTE is to be spoon fed. You're in dire straights with little to no hope.
Stan Shuffett
Stan, I am a total student, but I understand the guy that has taught pool for over 25 years AFTER playing as a pro, hustler, number one on the Pat3 test, etc. for years and years. He can not understand your DVD's! What the hell is a perception? He (and I) can not do your little foot shifts that you do on Youtube, over/ under, under/ over, pivots, 15,30,45, etc. THE same reason he disbanded SAMBA after buying the DVD trying to learn the different "aiming systems" that students fall for? Who has years of learning an "aiming system"? He can teach his in a few hours on his table. I invite you out and I'll pay for the lessons?
I hear ya. I do believe in different strokes for different folks, so it's no shock that different methods of aiming have varying results among different players. I can see and understand the CTE perceptions. It's the next step I don't get, the bridge and stroke alignment. But I don't lose sleep over it. I'm sure there are many out there that can't understand how to aim between a 3/4 and a 5/8 aim. I might lose a little sleep over that every now and then, just lying in bed thinking if ways to make it easier to comprehend.
Anyway, I could toss a dozen balls out on the table and fire them into the pockets using nothing but 34 years worth of experience. I can shoot em left, right, or center pocket at will. But I guarantee you no average player will be able to learn that over a weekend. I wouldn't even know how to teach someone to do it, short of handing them a copy of my book and saying, "Try this for a while and see if it helps." I mean, how can anyone teach a feel that resulted from years of personal experience? It's a skill that requires time.