Disaster Has Struck: All of Genipool14's Videos Have Been Deleted by YouTube

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Youtube has a pay-for-streaming mechanism. They take care of the payment and the security.

Thanks Bob. This would be great for example, if AccuStats, just started uploading all their old content to a YouTube channel and started a monthly fee based membership to get access to the content.

I know the Euro tour also has a site where all content is streamed for members, but I understand that can get costly to store and maintain the large quantity of data.

If YouTube offers that service, that is a huge piece to the puzzle.
 

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
Thanks Bob. This would be great for example, if AccuStats, just started uploading all their old content to a YouTube channel and started a monthly fee based membership to get access to the content.

I know the Euro tour also has a site where all content is streamed for members, but I understand that can get costly to store and maintain the large quantity of data.

If YouTube offers that service, that is a huge piece to the puzzle.

This does not stop somebody from accessing the stream - recording it - and then uploading it to Youtube and monetizing it.

He might be the pool video Robin Hood, but it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing is wrong.

Also, Lyn, I do not stream content - but I have had some of my videos stolen - straight pool videos and mental game videos - they have been taken and uploaded by others that have monetized them. It is a hassle to go through the process of filing a claim through Youtube.

Some may not think that it is a big deal until they are the one that is getting ripped off. JMO.
 

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This does not stop somebody from accessing the stream - recording it - and then uploading it to Youtube and monetizing it.

He might be the pool video Robin Hood, but it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing is wrong.

Also, Lyn, I do not stream content - but I have had some of my videos stolen - straight pool videos and mental game videos - they have been taken and uploaded by others that have monetized them. It is a hassle to go through the process of filing a claim through Youtube.

Some may not think that it is a big deal until they are the one that is getting ripped off. JMO.
I don't think many of us have much sympathy for the WPA, Matchroom and other groups that lose nothing due to genipool's uploads because they do not make their old matches available for any price. Sharing out of print material is not 100% morally wrong as you make it out to be.

Repurposing content that is otherwise available for a fee is obviously more problematic. You raise the prospect of people ripping and re-streaming paid content but I doubt anyone who hosts their files on YouTube would have any problem getting identical copies of that material taken down.
 

arps

tirador (ng pansit)
Silver Member
It's hard enough to make any money in pool, then you have thieves like this that make it even more difficult. I could see if he had any original content, but he doesn't.

He actually does. There are recorded matches between him and Ruslan Chinakhov, Stepanov, etc. Also has videos of him playing with friends.

Wait. So you reported him?
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought his channel was all the old ESPN stuff from the 80's and 90's that has long been dead and forgotten by its true copyright holders, and the new Matchroom stuff that everyone has for free. I did not see any accustats stuff or TAR stuff on his channel. I could obviously be wrong and simply missed that stuff.

Was he also the channel that had set up cameras of the recent Shane Efren 9 ball 2017 DCC match (his own camera on the side tables, not the TV table?)
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tough call.

Shows the face that suffers the 'victimless' crime.

Creates a revenue stream that otherwise would not exist...albeit for one whose sole contribution is making the items public.
 

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Taylor Swift kept her music off of streaming services while demand for lower-volume, higher-cost physical sales was there. Now that the demand cycle has moved on, her no-longer-new album is available on Spotify. The reason is simple - the amount of high-volume, low-cost money to be made from streaming is larger than the low-volume, high-cost physical sales.

I don't mean to pick on AccuStats, but they have a number of old matches and demand for those matches likely follows similar laws of economics. I have a hard time believing they make more money selling DVDs on the sixth page of their 10-ball site (http://store.accu-stats.com/10-ball/?sort=newest&page=6) than they would if those videos were available for streaming on YouTube. Not to mention those streams would act as advertising for their new products, which could be uploaded after some appropriate length of time has passed. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those DVDs have never sold one copy, ever (but am happy to be proven wrong).

Instructional videos are different as those don't suffer the same kind of decreasing demand cycle as pro tour events.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I also would like to order from Accustats if they had some kind YouTube monthly fee... OR site of their own. Like Kozoom.
Only way how we can watch pool here in Finland is practically Kozoom or Youtube. Or ordering some PPV but it is hard to due time problems etc..

About Genipool14 I think he was doing more good than bad for pool.:frown:
At least I would like to have our sport some way to spectators see it(good quality-that is essential for pool videos to be enjoyable) if they want.
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Taylor Swift kept her music off of streaming services while demand for lower-volume, higher-cost physical sales was there. Now that the demand cycle has moved on, her no-longer-new album is available on Spotify. The reason is simple - the amount of high-volume, low-cost money to be made from streaming is larger than the low-volume, high-cost physical sales.



I don't mean to pick on AccuStats, but they have a number of old matches and demand for those matches likely follows similar laws of economics. I have a hard time believing they make more money selling DVDs on the sixth page of their 10-ball site (http://store.accu-stats.com/10-ball/?sort=newest&page=6) than they would if those videos were available for streaming on YouTube. Not to mention those streams would act as advertising for their new products, which could be uploaded after some appropriate length of time has passed. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those DVDs have never sold one copy, ever (but am happy to be proven wrong).



Instructional videos are different as those don't suffer the same kind of decreasing demand cycle as pro tour events.



CSI does this. Their streams are PPV, but six months to a year later they upload the video to YouTube. I think that's good business and good for the game, but I'm not going to tell Pat Flemming how to run his business.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On the genipool topic:
Watching pool online is way too hard. I will not install obscure software, and I do not have Windows. Give me a resonable subscription and I might buy that. If I can access all videos whenever I like, also older ones. And yes, only a browser muss suffice.
The pool world needs to unite and embrace youtube, by using their payed content system.
One location, familiar web interface, all videos. Finito.

Start making stable money with a proven approach and stop being melodramatic about everything. In the end also it's just "spectator sports of something that has already taken place", so the money has already been made.
It's strange to think that a lot of money can be made AFTER the actual event?
It's also something we a humans are wired to - nobody will pay a lot (attention, craving, money) after the fact.


Also, Lyn, I do not stream content - but I have had some of my videos stolen - straight pool videos and mental game videos - they have been taken and uploaded by others that have monetized them. It is a hassle to go through the process of filing a claim through Youtube.

Some may not think that it is a big deal until they are the one that is getting ripped off. JMO.

To be very blunt right from the start and have an open and objective discussion: I have little sympathy for you when you talk about "stolen" and "hassle to get them removed".
And I think we need to adress this.

First off, nothing was stolen. You did not lose money out of your wallet, you did not lose your tapes. There was a copyright violation.
Somebody opened up a market (the free market) you did not address, and used ads to make some money.

Second, it's good that it's a hassle to get content removed. Fair use is a strong principle (i.e. showing parts and discussion them) and needs to be preserved at all costs for our society.
Your case was not fair use, obviously, so rightfully again, you did file a complaint, it was checked and processed, and the offending material removed.
This is how it generally works in life. You also need to take care about your business.

Now we need to talk about mind set.
It's absolute ridiculous to think that in this day and age you posses a unique thing that everybody will line up and pay for that (again, it's just a copy!).
Since the Internet is broadly available (abstract, written, ...) knowledge is essentially free. It's the dream we had with free libraries that has now truly come true.
I'm not sure if anybody realizes what this really means! Access to knowledge finally is free, no matter where and who you are, and you yourself can learn just about any skill if you please.

So, now again to your video:
  • Did you have free parts of your video available so people could check if the whole video would fit their expectations?
  • Do you offer free videos supported by ads? That's the market you are not adressing.

Again it's the market you are missing. It's not the 80s anymore and it's just ridiculous to think you can make money with a video in our day and age.
Nowadays the videos and books are free, and you make money with you as a person, the instructor, the personal touch and the attention to the buyers needs = personal lessons.

This issue is different when we talk about actual theft of a physical thing, i.e. a car.
Because the effects of this a completely different!
If my car could be instantly cloned and the other person would drive off in HIS clone, then I couldn't care less about that, as long as my physical possesion stays.

Cheers,
M
 
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prpavi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If he gets his channel back up and continues to steal, re-post, and cash in on any more of my stuff I'll just keep reporting him.

It's hard enough to make any money in pool, then you have thieves like this that make it even more difficult. I could see if he had any original content, but he doesn't. His channel is just stuff that he has blatantly stolen from other people. He has monetized and cashed in on other people's hard work. If his channel is gone, good riddance.

The more that people continue to support thieves, cons, and others that steal, pirate, and provide free stuff to the masses - remember that this is the main reason why pool gets nowhere year after year after year.


You know for a fact he monetized the videos, or just talking out of your ass?

If he posted my product, didn't monetize it I'd have no problem with that, if the product is good I'd be the first one to seek out the original content creator and support him/her and allot more would. You all are still living in the 90's and DVD era.

What's killing pool are not people like genipool that promote the sport to masses, especially the ones that can't afford 20$ streams, which are for most part terrible, unprofessional and many times embarrassing to listen to.

Here's a great post from Reddit from a smart gentleman

https://www.reddit.com/r/billiards/...billiards_tournamenttvdvd_people_you_need_to/
 

marek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On the genipool topic:
Watching pool online is way too hard. I will not install obscure software, and I do not have Windows. Give me a resonable subscription and I might buy that. If I can access all videos whenever I like, also older ones. And yes, only a browser muss suffice.
The pool world needs to unite and embrace youtube, by using their payed content system.
One location, familiar web interface, all videos. Finito.

Start making stable money with a proven approach and stop being melodramatic about everything. In the end also it's just "spectator sports of something that has already taken place", so the money has already been made.
It's strange to think that a lot of money can be made AFTER the actual event?
It's also something we a humans are wired to - nobody will pay a lot (attention, craving, money) after the fact.




To be very blunt right from the start and have an open and objective discussion: I have little sympathy for you when you talk about "stolen" and "hassle to get them removed".
And I think we need to adress this.

First off, nothing was stolen. You did not lose money out of your wallet, you did not lose your tapes. There was a copyright violation.
Somebody opened up a market (the free market) you did not address, and used ads to make some money.

Second, it's good that it's a hassle to get content removed. Fair use is a strong principle (i.e. showing parts and discussion them) and needs to be preserved at all costs for our society.
Your case was not fair use, obviously, so rightfully again, you did file a complaint, it was checked and processed, and the offending material removed.
This is how it generally works in life. You also need to take care about your business.

Now we need to talk about mind set.
It's absolute ridiculous to think that in this day and age you posses a unique thing that everybody will line up and pay for that (again, it's just a copy!).
Since the Internet is broadly available (abstract, written, ...) knowledge is essentially free. It's the dream we had with free libraries that has now truly come true.
I'm not sure if anybody realizes what this really means! Access to knowledge finally is free, no matter where and who you are, and you yourself can learn just about any skill if you please.

So, now again to your video:
  • Did you have free parts of your video available so people could check if the whole video would fit their expectations?
  • Do you offer free videos supported by ads? That's the market you are not adressing.

Again it's the market you are missing. It's not the 80s anymore and it's just ridiculous to think you can make money with a video in our day and age.
Nowadays the videos and books are free, and you make money with you as a person, the instructor, the personal touch and the attention to the buyers needs = personal lessons.

This issue is different when we talk about actual theft of a physical thing, i.e. a car.
Because the effects of this a completely different!
If my car could be instantly cloned and the other person would drive off in HIS clone, then I couldn't care less about that, as long as my physical possesion stays.

Cheers,
M

Mister you are totally wrong both legally and morally...
 

SandFox

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a really strange one. Because a lot of the videos were either free streams or so old they weren't available anymore. Never seen full length accustat matches or TAR clips yes but not matches. Geni gave credit to all the source material he pulled from too.

So to address him stealing I think that's a load of BS, Sure some people get there videos stolen or copied but going to say never seen it on his channel.
 

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
While his channel does have stuff captured from streams of Matchroom events and other things, he does also have a lot of good original content. Most notably are matches of the recent Derby City Classic that werent on the TV table that I believe he recorded himself. Very HQ video. No Commentary. One straight on shot of the table and some damn good matches. One of the more recent ones of Billy Thorpe vs Efren Reyes was a great match to watch.

I believe he also setup the 10ball challenge match between Ruslan and Shane (the one with the infamous you must break from outside the box rule). He was also the streamer and uploaded Russian tournaments.

While he does have some content from Accustats and others on his channel, that content is not in the form of full matches. He has clips in highlight reels that if anything is more of an advertisement for those matches because not only is it show casing some amazing talent from those matches, it is also showcasing the quality those other people provide.

It's a double edged sword IMO... personally, I'm glad he is back online as I love watching the Matchroom events and I'm not always available to watch them on a stream if they were streamed at all.
 
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