How to Play This Pattern?

[Old Nine Baller]

So a quick question from a beginner - all the posts I read have the shooter trying to get shape on the 2-ball to the lower corner (using either follow or draw on the 1-ball) - which was my first inclination too (I was thinking using follow). But then looking closer, why not shoot the 1 with follow to the top corner - almost straight in, follow roughly 1 diamond, setting up 2-ball for the lower side pocket? This sets up naturally (with follow) for 3 and the rest seems pretty straightforward. If can get speed right, it seems that the shapes are easier to attain as a whole.

I guess the question is, is the margin for error trying to get speed for 1 diamond follow shot so much higher than getting angle for 2 for low corner pocket? Or is it that shooting the 2 into side pocket is much lower percentage shot so taking a seemingly harder shot (and by harder I mean to get good shape on the 2) makes more sense?

Thanks!

This. Remember that you not only have to make the 2 but you need shapes on the 3 also. No player would ever shoot the 2 in the side in this layout.

ONB

But if the lower left pocket were blocked they might try for the side as the only option with a plan to play safe if things don't go perfectly.

To answer the question a little more directly, take ball in hand on the 2 for a shot to the side and see how much margin in cue ball placement you have to be able to get on the 3. The path of the cue ball from the 1 will be crossing the line of perfect position to the side on the 2. On the other hand, if you end up short of the side position you might have a shot to the lower right corner (not shown).

The lower-left pocket is not blocked.

I did answer the question as directly as it can be answered.

ONB

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Does your advice come from memory (when you could still play) or have you been in a poolroom recently?

I don't believe/disbelieve anything. I know what is the right thing to do. I don't need to ask.

Using draw in this situation is clearly the right shot.

ONB

for the record, I know you were responding to Island Drive...

Buddy Hall might disagree. :wink: He was always a proponent of not fighting natural roll unless you had to.

The draw shot you are suggesting looks good and offers the cue ball a wider path through the 8 and 2 balls, however, there is still plenty of room to put whitey through using follow and the angle and speed control are much more predictable plus you are looking at it all in front of you while not 'fighting it'. All that is needed for success with using follow here is understanding the tangent line. On this shot, you can start with whitey on pretty much the same plane as the 1b with a miniscule angle and about 8 inches apart from the 1b. That should roll you through the gap and play your speed for a soft bounce off the side cushion.

I have zero doubt that a skilled player like I expect you are can make the draw shot you suggest but with ball in hand, the simple follow through the 8b & 2b lane with a gentle bump off the side rail will leave a more predictable leave for a soft angle shot for the 2 and then you can set up for the 3 in the same bottom left corner. If you rmd up too straight on the 2 you can go to plan b and play the 3b down the corner of the table not pictured.

There's often more than one way to skin a cat but if I can get the job done with natural flow, that is what I prefer.

I believe the op should def practice both the follow as well as the draw shot since we don't always enjoy having ball in hand and ONB's draw shot is one we all need to have in our arsenal.

all of this is IMHO, of course - except the Buddy Hall stuff. :smile:

best,
brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Just up from the dungeon where I set it up and played it out both starting with a draw shot and a follow shot.

Both worked but I didn't have quite as good shape starting with the draw but it certainly was manageable. In situ, it looks even easier than on the diagram to start with using a follow shot.

the pics below reflect the run starting with the follow shot which worked like a charm and, in fact, was easy to do.

Illustrated are my starting position with b-i-h (shot 1 all the way through shot 5. After the 1b was potted I stunned the 2b shot for shape on the 3b. I ended up with shape for the plan b 4 ball shooting that one into the far upper corner with a stop shot leave for the 8.

The table was set just like what was in the op's diagram.

best,
brian kc

 

[pocket]

In pic one you look pretty straight on with the cue and the 1, I assume you used a little top right english for the the leave?

Backspin for the position on the 3?

Stun for the 4?

Thanks.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

In pic one you look pretty straight on with the cue and the 1, I assume you used a little top right english for the the leave?

Backspin for the position on the 3?

Stun for the 4?

Thanks.

offset just a little and you can either cheat the pocket a little to the left since you are slow rolling the ball or use a small amount of 1 o'clock on the cue ball.

you just want to make sure you're clearing the 8 ball and getting a soft bump off the side cushion. A 1'oclock spin also assists the cue ball to release slightly right off the cushion but with all of this I would still keep it as simple as possible.

I will again emphasize that the draw shot is a viable way to go, also, but I think the odds for success favor follow.

nice topic.

best,
brian kc

 

[3RAILKICK]

Brian...nice post with pics. Good shooting.

Nice dungeon.

 

[victorl]

Nice runout kickin!

I like these WWYD threads, lots of good discussion and sometimes you end up rethinking your patterns. I'm sure we are all guilty of playing what's comfortable to us instead of taking the "correct", highest percentage route, which isn't a bad thing. You also get to see who the real players are based on their patterns and thought processes.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

In pic one you look pretty straight on with the cue and the 1, I assume you used a little top right english for the the leave?

Backspin for the position on the 3?

Stun for the 4?

Thanks.

I reset and took another pic of it and updated the post to show more of the angle.

I also enjoy these wwyd threads.

thx op for posing the question.

best,
brian kc

 

[pocket]

Okay, haven't had a chance to work this until tonight.

I tried it with KickinChicken's suggestion. I was 9/10 getting shape on the two. For me, a smooth stroke with a little top gave me the best shape.

Using the backspin I was 3/10.

So at least for me, the clear winner was follow. I was counting even tougher "shape" on the 2.

So, if anyone was curious, there you have it.

 

[pooln8r]

If you are using "follow" to get from the 1 to the 2 then you are doing it the hard way. "Draw" is the ticket here. It's much more predictable.

View attachment 351289

ONB

Another option. A tip of top right from this position would do the same thing and there would be less chance of getting caught on the wrong side of the 8 on the way up to the 2 on the chance you get more of a draw stroke then you expect.

Good shooting to you.

Kevin

 

[frigopie]

This is bad advice. A natural forward rolling 12 o'clock center high cue ball is theeeeeeeeeeeeeee easiest shot to control in this situation period. Drawing this shot to shape has Many more variables taking place during execution, and because of this the CUEBALL is more difficult to control. If you don't believe me. Shoot it 20 times each way, your answer will lie with your results. I know I could get the correct shape on the two to the 3 EVERY time with a rolling cue ball, and when I mean shape, I mean the easy/simple/natural angle from the two to the three. I of course could draw and get shape on the 2 every time, but I Know I would come up with bad angles from the two to the three often. Your also bringing into play the cue ball spin off the bottom cushion from the cue ball, that is NEVER 100% controllable.

One basic item on this shot is this. Your looking forward to shoot the one ball in the upper pocket, and your also seeing where the two ball is at during shot execution. This gives you allot more position feedback because your also able to see the two ball, a simple but very important principle to incorporate into your game plan.

100% agree