Important VISUALS info for CTE PRO ONE
- Thread starter stan shuffett
- Start date
Why are you replying to a four-year old post? Oh, you must be the troll?
Now that so many CTErs have been banned, I expect we will see lots of low post count trolls in these discussions, lol.
Lou Figueroa
here they come
Now that so many CTErs have been banned, I expect we will see lots of low post count trolls in these discussions, lol.
Lou Figueroa
here they come
Says the absolute biggest troll in the aiming forum
Beg your pardon. These threads come up on searches, I study them and then become disgusted by the wasted interuptions by people trying to side-track the conversation - and then post a reply. I'll try to watch the age of the posts better in the future. My apologies.
BTW - I've studied your own notes over and over again at billiardsthegame.com for a different perspective on learning CTE. I am very serious about learning it.
I was going to send this to you by PM but it's not activated so I figgered I may as well beat a dead horse too. I started my journey with the info from mohrt's site and learned a lot from it. (Thanks, mohrt) Stan has also done some videos on foot work and bridge placement that will help you get the fundamentals right. (Thanks, Stan) I use a half ball pivot where I place the cue tip at the edge of the ball and pivot into center. Stan still advises new users to start with a manual pivot and work their way up to the advanced level of using sweeps.
This is just my experience using a pivoting technique, but I think it holds true for most versions of pivoting also. You can find the visual you need by looking at the contact point and finding the ob quarter it's on when you look down the center cb / ob line. If it's in the first quarter, 15 visual. 2nd quarter, 30. 3rd quarter, 45. This is just a general rule, some shots may need the next visual due to ball placement.
First examine your stroke. You need to have a straight and smooth stroke to make any progress. It's an advanced technique and if you have stroke problems you won't get any consistency with it. Set up straight in shots and work on them until they feel smooth and you can't feel any 'hitches'. Don't forget to follow through. Don't use a pivot at first, it may complicate things, just center ball to center ball. It's good target practice. Make sure you can hit what you're aiming at. This will ensure you will hit straight through the center of the cue ball. After your pivot your stroke must be straight through CCB.
Next work on your pivot. Don't try to do sweeps, use a manual half ball pivot. Do straight shots at first to make sure your pivot will bring you back to center cue ball. The pivots must be consistent for all visuals. You'll figure out your bridge placement and length doing straights. Then practice on the almost straight ins to make sure things are working for the low angle shots. Work on your foot placement so it feels comfortable doing left and right pivots. You don't want to feel cramped or off balance in your stance.
As a general rule for 15 and 30 visuals, use the edge of the cb to 'cover' the contact point side of the ob (A , C or B). Your pivot will be toward the contact point side of the ob. For the 45 visual, cover the ob side nearest the pocket (A or C) with the cb edge nearest the pocket and pivot away from the pocket. Notice that you're still pivoting toward the contact point. Use center cue ball when you're just starting out. You can work on spin for cue ball control after you get the fundamentals working for you.
When you're first trying, the shots may look wrong. Trust your pivot and try the shot anyway if it looks close. Sometimes your head gets out of position after the pivot and the shot looks off. If you've done everything correctly the shot will go even if it looks thick or thin. Don't try to 'steer' the shot if it looks off. You won't learn anything if you do. If a shot looks way off after the pivot stand up and try again. Work on the 15 visual first. Once your comfortable with them, get a feel for when it turns into a 30, and then when a 30 turns into a 45. There's a lot of moving parts to fine tune but once you practice, practice, practice, things start to smooth out. That should cover enough for the first hour of practice and get you started so you can begin the learning curve.
You sure this isn't just the HAMB method with some bells and whistles added on? I'm kidding, of course, but with all the advice I'm reading about the learning curve and putting in enough time at the table the thought occurred to me. HAMB as an aiming method really does work, and might even be related to why CTE works for some.
Nah, it's more like going from a bicycle to a motorcycle. Same basic balance and handling but there's more things to control. You've got a throttle, clutch, gear selector, front and rear brake controls to coordinate. Takes a little time to smooth them out but soon you start putting down the highway okay. After you get comfortable with the way it handles you can think about racing it.
As to HAMB, here's some thoughts about that method. Assume you can pocket 200 balls per hour, that's over 13 racks. Now assume you can do that constantly over your entire learning process of HAMB. ( If it takes 5 min to run through a rack, you're making 180 balls/hour.)
1,000,000 balls /200 balls/hour = 5,000 hours
5,000 hours/4 hours/day = 1,250 days
1,250 days/ 365 days/year = 3 years, 5 months, 3 days
Most people can't put that much time into it. If you can only practice an hour a day it would take over 13 years of table time. Most people will make far fewer than 200 balls per hour at the start of their learning curve too. I guess if you've got 20 years to kill it's possible. 5000 hours of playing time isn't cheap either if you don't have a table. And that's if you're playing like your pants are on fire.
I think HAMB is only an expression..the same thing as Walk A Million Miles.
A better way to think of the expression would be Analyze A Thousand Balls.
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Thanks for spending time to reply. I appreciate it.
The issue I struggle with is the visualization (where to stand at ball-address behind the pair of lines). I can see the CTE and ETA lines from multiple locations although they don't line up separately (and I know they are not suppose to). But Stan and others say they are visible in only one location. Therefore - since I am new to this - I must be doing it wrong. I'd love to see an instructor but they are all hundreds of miles away. I'm on my 8th time through Stan's DVD2 and have watched his separate YouTube videos as well.
Also, Stan's CTE (the version I'm persuing) requires a 1/2 tip pivot, not a half-ball pivot. I've never like the way the pivot looks so will eventually move to his Pro-One visual sweep ... once I get past the visuals mind-block.
And finally, my stroke is very straight (I practice slow-motion stroking on a table over a ruler every morning. It's boring - but it has made a huge difference in accuracy. I also practice slow-motion breaking stance/stroke every day. This will teach muscle memory (learned the value of slow-motion practicing from a Ben Hogan video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5vTfi0gtZ8)
I don't have my own table so hit the pool hall once a week and must rely on stroke and visualization drills at home. I'm anxious to get to the pool hall and work on one of the 15 degree perception examples from Stan's DVD.
Thanks again. I copy all of these suggestions to a Word document and read them over and over until it sinks in.
I will understand this or be damned.
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I like the idea of your slow motion practice session. Never heard of the Tai-Chi school of Billiards but the method sounds interesting. I'm going to have to give it a try. Maybe I can develop a Bruce Lee one inch break.
I saw a couple of posts a while back that I was going to send you the links to, but I couldn't find them using search so I'll try to give you the info as I recall it. Maybe they'll recognize their comments and respond.
Taking visuals: One player said he imagines a glass wall that runs through the center of both balls. When he takes a visual he reports that he has his head almost pressed against the wall when he starts obtaining his visuals. Try that body position and see if the first visual you get will work for you.
Coming down to center cue ball: Another (same?) player posted that after he locks in the visual he imagines a glass wall that runs through the CB that is perpendicular to his 'aiming' line. He imagines the CB as a 2D sticker on the wall and says it helps him see the edge of the CB better pre pivot. He reports that he will take his eyes a bit out of focus to see the CB 'better' as a 2D object.
I hope these ides can help you out. Keep on Keepin' On. Once you find the technique that works, you'll wonder why you had such a hard time in the first place.
I saw a couple of posts a while back that I was going to send you the links to, but I couldn't find them using search so I'll try to give you the info as I recall it. Maybe they'll recognize their comments and respond.
Taking visuals: One player said he imagines a glass wall that runs through the center of both balls. When he takes a visual he reports that he has his head almost pressed against the wall when he starts obtaining his visuals. Try that body position and see if the first visual you get will work for you.
Coming down to center cue ball: Another (same?) player posted that after he locks in the visual he imagines a glass wall that runs through the CB that is perpendicular to his 'aiming' line. He imagines the CB as a 2D sticker on the wall and says it helps him see the edge of the CB better pre pivot. He reports that he will take his eyes a bit out of focus to see the CB 'better' as a 2D object.
I hope these ides can help you out. Keep on Keepin' On. Once you find the technique that works, you'll wonder why you had such a hard time in the first place.
I like the idea of your slow motion practice session. Never heard of the Tai-Chi school of Billiards but the method sounds interesting. I'm going to have to give it a try. Maybe I can develop a Bruce Lee one inch break.
I saw a couple of posts a while back that I was going to send you the links to, but I couldn't find them using search so I'll try to give you the info as I recall it. Maybe they'll recognize their comments and respond.
Taking visuals: One player said he imagines a glass wall that runs through the center of both balls. When he takes a visual he reports that he has his head almost pressed against the wall when he starts obtaining his visuals. Try that body position and see if the first visual you get will work for you.
Coming down to center cue ball: Another (same?) player posted that after he locks in the visual he imagines a glass wall that runs through the CB that is perpendicular to his 'aiming' line. He imagines the CB as a 2D sticker on the wall and says it helps him see the edge of the CB better pre pivot. He reports that he will take his eyes a bit out of focus to see the CB 'better' as a 2D object.
I hope these ides can help you out. Keep on Keepin' On. Once you find the technique that works, you'll wonder why you had such a hard time in the first place.
"Tai-Chai school of billiards." Now there's an idea. I know what you mean there as I obtained a black belt in TKD years ago (overweight and out-of-shape now).
Thanks for the illustrations. That might help me get through the mind-block.
Exactly. Aiming takes maybe a month to learn, a good stroke takes years.
Set up the same shot with hole reinforcers and shoot a couple dozen a day for two weeks. After that you'll pretty much know how to aim all shots similar to that one. Do the same thing for different cut shots and you're good. The real work comes in creating a good stroke, which encompasses body position and visual alignment.
HAMB is just an expression that says there's no substitute for table time.
My personal amendment to this would be: a good set up takes years to learn.
If you get the set up right, the stroke happens. Aiming becomes an afterthought.
Lou Figueroa
Well after years of "just aiming" i play a lot better since learning CTE. Pocketing balls much easier and cleaner.
CTE is all about visual alignment which in turn gets you into the right body position.
Table time helps to get a consistent stroke. Most people never achieve the real good consistent stroke.
Try this shooting under a table cover or behind a curtain and see what percentage you make,,,,,,,, I bet not so high.
Stan's method does not require seeing the pocket.
I can see you guys starting a thread about why you don't like CTE or whatever, but claiming it doesn't work, because you don't like it, is complete and utter nonsense, and proves you've never tried it, at least with enough understanding to do it correctly. It just makes making balls easier, and almost effortless.
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Are you saying you stand and see the centre of the CB line up with the outside edge of the OB
AND
the inside edge of the CB to line up to the inside quarter of the OB?
You're saying you see both lines at the same time from different positions?
Gee I can't. Even if I move my eyes just a fraction the 2 lines are lost.
If I move a bit to the left I can line up the centre to the edge but the inside edge of the CB can't get anywhere near aligning with the inside quarter of the OB.
Remember you have to be directly BEHIND these lines.
Try this. Line up the centre to edge first and the just slightly shuffle across till you see both lines.
Thanks for your reply.
I can see the lines from multiple locations but they are not lined up with me (more parallel/offset to me). I can see CTE and ETA/B in that manner. What I've been doing lately is as Stan suggested on one of his videos: start by standing directly behind CCB to COB and turn until both lines line up. What had me confused is that Stan says multiple times on his DVD2 that he is not standing directly behind either one of the lines (CTE or ETA/B).
Regardless, I am practicing the visualization each day (without a pool table - first working only on CTE/ETA assuming a left slight cut shot) and am starting see both lines come together more in line with my ball-address position. The challenge and the mystery has to do with the the 3-dimensional aspect of the spheres and thus is why it is so hard to explain and can't be put on paper.
Can't wait until Monday billiards night when I can confirm my alignment at the table.
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sacman: if I may make a suggestion. Surely if you have access to google then you are well aware of the debate about CTE (if not, you should be). Some people say it helps them, others not so much. I'd like to suggest that if you aren't able to make head or tails out of this system then you are in the "not so much" category. Some people have spent over a year trying to figure it out and it simply doesn't work for them.
I'm curious. Are you sure your stroke is straight? Do you have any video of it? You shouldn't have a lot of trouble aiming with a straight stroke. Also, remember the old adage, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is." Think about it the next time someone makes the claim that you can set up a shot the same way and the ball will go in different directions, but always in the middle of the pocket, even with a curtain. If that could be done, everybody would be doin' it, as Vince says.
There are no secret short cuts, only time at the table and attention to detail.