Learning CTE

[(((Satori)))]

One more thought.

The perception for each line is perceived with the head position in one place. Both lines can be easily seen without head movement.

Stan Shuffett

Where is that one place that my head needs to be in relation to the balls? You say it is not directly in line with the cte line or the secondary line so where is it?

I can see a line from the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball from anywhere I am able to see the two balls at the same time so I need to know a specific place of where I need to be. I can see the lines, then move a little right and still see the lines, then move further right and still see the lines, you get the point? Once again your answers do not give me any idea on where exactly I need to be before dropping into the shot.

 

[JoeyInCali]

It is clear that my questions will remain unanswered yet again.

Would a Wei table diagram help in answering you question ?
Say a spot shot, frozen on the side rail cut and so on?

 

[gazman100]

Hi Stan,
is there any chance you can really nail this in your next DVD,
I meam show exacly where your feet are placed after visuals are locked in and how your move or walk in.
Guildlines at the table as well as the floor with the viewing angles from the camera at the front and the side of the table so we can see how your moving in without any viewing interfence from the table.
I'm a fan of your CTE but your stances are blocked by the table.
Peace

 

[kildegirl]

Where is your head when you see the visuals?

Are you directly on the cte line? No
Are you directly on the secondary line? No

Are you on both lines at the same time?

Yes Your body is at an angle to see the ctel and cbe to A or B or C or B depending on which way your are cutting the ob. When I have the lines set I focus with my eyes (I do not move my head) on the center of the cb and if I have to go to the ccb from the left or right.

I hope this helps

 

[stan shuffett]

Hi Stan,
is there any chance you can really nail this in your next DVD,
I meam show exacly where your feet are placed after visuals are locked in and how your move or walk in.
Guildlines at the table as well as the floor with the viewing angles from the camera at the front and the side of the table so we can see how your moving in without any viewing interfence from the table.
I'm a fan of your CTE but your stances are blocked by the table.
Peace

Great comments!

The first CTE shot that I executed in front of Hal was quite memorable.
I shot a fairly simple shot and Hal asked me what I was doing referring to my feet. Well, I went through a spill with Hal explaining my footwork. Hal laughed and told me this is not about your feet. Just see the shot and make it.

Hal was right. I think back to all that Hal said and he was right every time.

CTE IS A VISUAL SYSTEM. I can cross my feet and make balls. My eyes lead the way and my feet will follow. At first you may not know what to do with your feet. What's important is to see the visuals correctly and then go ahead and make the shot even if you are not comfortable in your stance.

Just as your eyes represent an intelligence that is as stout as the fastest super computers in the world, your body has an intelligence that is extremely smart in a different way. See the visuals and allow your feet to follow resulting in a comfortable stance. Your body, legwork and feet placement will become quite proficient with a proper stance when allowed.

Ultimately, as a right handed player you will have your right foot in some way angled across the shot line while the left foot can be somewhat, if not directly parallel to the shot line. (Thanks, Cj!)

Do try to establish your feet position while you are getting your visuals. It is not necessary. In CTE you do not know the exact shot line until you arrive at CCB. There's a zillion shots!!! So, It's okay to be close with your feet during ball address and them allow your feet to move. FLOW TO THE SHOT LINE! Again, see your visuals from wherever at first and just go to the CCB with a left or right PRO ONE movement no matter how uncomfortable it is. Your body will quickly learn to be efficient. WHY?

Because in CTE there are only 2 physical movements to learn that take you to all shot lines. Once you begin with PRO ONE there will be a constant refinement for those 2 movements from now on. You will be moving like a pro in no time and this is the way you really do it. It is important to emulate great players whenever possible.

Dang, I gotta get back to editing.

Yes, There will be many that think I nailed DVD2. I hope you will be one of them.

Hope this helps.

Stan Shuffett

 

[BeiberLvr]

Where is that one place that my head needs to be in relation to the balls? You say it is not directly in line with the cte line or the secondary line so where is it?

I can see a line from the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball from anywhere I am able to see the two balls at the same time so I need to know a specific place of where I need to be. I can see the lines, then move a little right and still see the lines, then move further right and still see the lines, you get the point? Once again your answers do not give me any idea on where exactly I need to be before dropping into the shot.

Yes, you can see the CTE line from anywhere.

But you can only see both the CTE line and the aim line from one spot. I made a crude drawing below that hopefully explains this for you. Please note that the head position is only approximate.

In any case, if you're head is positioned as in Ex. 1, then you can truly only see the aim line going to A and the CTE line. You can't see both the CTE line and any other aim line unless you moved over to the right slightly.

 

[stan shuffett]

Yes, you can see the CTE line from anywhere.

But you can only see both the CTE line and the aim line from one spot. I made a crude drawing below that hopefully explains this for you. Please note that the head position is only approximate.

In any case, if you're head is positioned as in Ex. 1, then you can truly only see the aim line going to A and the CTE line. You can't see both the CTE line and any other aim line unless you moved over to the right slightly.

Nice illustrations and very much to the point.

Our eyes work differently in acquiring the visuals. Sometimes 1 eye will do all the work for both lines. At other times,1 eye will pick one line and the other eye the other line. It's the use of your eyes in this way that is necessary to fix the cue ball.

Once you have your visuals. Then you focus on the cue ball with your typical stereo vision approach. You are back to normal.

It seems complicated at first but all you are doing is learning to use your eyes
"Outside of the box" so to speak.

Like I say, this is of another dimension and was never meant to be but since it connects to table geometry, it's worth the learning curve.

Stan Shuffett

 

[LAMas]

It works with shooters that are right eye dominant as well as those that are left eye dominant as well as those that have a vision center between their eyes...I think.

Using the principals in your system, one can adapt their vision/visuals to the table geometry.

If I diagrammed the results for a right eye dominant shooter, the diagrams would be different than for a left eye dominant shooter or the vision center shooter. With time at the table, the shooter will succeed regardless and master all of the shots for himself.

With your instructions while at the table, you will guide the shooter while determining what is best for how the shooter uses his eyes to aquire the visuals. This will accelerate the learning process.

Just saying.

 

[stan shuffett]

It works with shooters that are right eye dominant as well as those that are left eye dominant as well as those that have a vision center between their eyes...I think.

Using the principals in your system, one can adapt their vision/visuals to the table geometry.

If I diagrammed the results for a right eye dominant shooter, the diagrams would be different than for a left eye dominant shooter or the vision center shooter. With time at the table, the shooter will succeed regardless and master all of the shots for himself.

With your instructions while at the table, you will guide the shooter while determining what is best for how the shooter uses his eyes to aquire the visuals. This will accelerate the learning process.

Just saying.

In obtaining 2 lines for the CTE perceptions, eye dominance is quite secondary to the process. The eyes are not in typical operating mode as you have stated for obtaining 2 line visuals. The right eye can do the same work as the left eye and vice versa. There is a visual disparity that is occurring and not our typical stereo vision at this point. So, eye dominance is not really a factor at all during visuals acquisition.

Typical stereo vision resumes when focus returns to a fixed CB. We all can see a fixed CB in the same manner just as though we can all see a center to center relationship between a CB and an OB.

It's when we fall on the cb, that eye dominance or one's vision center does vary from person to person.

The visuals in CTE are objective. We all follow specific rules for constructing what we see. Those rules do not change from person to person. CTE is based on objectivity NOT just any ol' perception.


Stan Shuffett

 

[scottjen26]

Where is that one place that my head needs to be in relation to the balls? You say it is not directly in line with the cte line or the secondary line so where is it?

I can see a line from the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball from anywhere I am able to see the two balls at the same time so I need to know a specific place of where I need to be. I can see the lines, then move a little right and still see the lines, then move further right and still see the lines, you get the point? Once again your answers do not give me any idea on where exactly I need to be before dropping into the shot.

Satori,

I think Beiber beat me to it slightly, what he said is correct. I'm not sure what you meant by your paragraph above, but you can NOT see both the CTE line and the secondary aim line from multiple positions. Yes, you can move your eyes or body a little right, a little left, and you might be close to one or both lines, but you won't see the true one position where both intersect perfectly. That's why there are two lines, if just viewing the CTE line or the secondary aim line there is the possibility that you are looking from a different angle and starting from an incorrect position.

There are a few parts of the system that might be hard to comprehend even after watching the DVD, this is one of them. I just emailed someone off line to help and spent 6 - 7 paragraphs trying to be very clear and precise and explaining these one or two things. It's not that it can't be described or written down, it's just challenging, and much easier to demonstrate in person as you can stand behind me or in front of me and see exactly where I'm starting and what I'm doing. And vice versa, I can stand behind a student and see if they are picking up the visuals correctly and moving to center CB correctly.

It is a very visual system, and as mentioned many times your eyes do lead your body. Feet don't matter much. Since I like to have a reference for my preshot routine, I generally start with my back foot on or just inside the CTE line and offset as shown in the DVD. From there I move my eyes/head, or even body if way off (especially when first learning), to dial in the two lines. For me, primarily the secondary line and the CTE line is in the periphery.

Once locked in, I would move toward the object ball along that path/channel/tunnel/plane/etc, however you think of it, you have locked in a direction and you go forward. You are not aiming at any specific point, or any relative point in relation to the lines or parts of the object ball. It's just forward along the path chosen by your eyes. From there, it's a 1/2 tip offset and manual pivot or Pro1 based on the shot at hand.

A paradigm shift from normal aiming, where people feel like they are moving straight into a contact point, GB position, etc., and therefore their eyes are locked in on something from the beginning. With this and other pivot systems, you establish your alignment using discrete points and relationships between the CB and OB, which determines your initial movement, then you move to center CB. Once there, that's your aim line, period.

You need to practice it with reference shots until your alignment and movements allow you to make the ball consistently, then you know you "got it". Takes time in the beginning, but then you gain confidence, and then the perceptions come quicker and become almost subconscious on most routine type shots, and you only end up only really taking a few seconds to aim longer or tougher shots.

In addition to reference shots, try at first not taking any practice strokes. Align, move to center ball, then pause and just shoot. I found that traditional practice stroking caused some potential fidgeting at first, as your brain still feels like you haven't aimed and you start tweaking. And especially if you had flaws in your aiming process, you will still want to correct to that picture. If done properly CTE/Pro1, SEE, etc. will help to calibrate the true center ball shot picture.

For me, it took a few practice sessions, 8 - 10 hours, plus asking questions here before I started really doing things right. A lot of that though was really trying to figure out which alignment and pivot to use and when, as I didn't have a table at home or access to the DVD so I was jotting things down and trying to remember them. Those have been summarized a lot here and should shorten some of the learning curve. I still say the best thing is to shoot the reference shots in order, re-watch the DVD a few times in sections, and you will get it.

Sorry for the verbosity, but I hope I answered your question and gave some more details to help you on your way.
Scott

 

[LAMas]

Scott,
Well described.

 

[LAMas]

Can a shooter with only one eye succeed?

 

[stan shuffett]

Yes, I think that a player using one eye can be successful with CTE.no doubt about it. I have done limited work testing out the system with 1 eye covered and did quite well.
There is a major concept concerning this that I will discuss in DVD2 and then my answer will be quite clear.
I can't say that 1 eye is absolutely as efficient as 2 but if I were using only 1 eye for playing I would definitely use CTE PRO ONE.
Stan Shuffett

 

[Ratta]

Can a shooter with only one eye succeed?

Lamas

In my opinoin it doesn t matter what kind of system you are using to aim. Absolutley no matter which one.
It s all about getting *the right perspective*-nothing else. We know, that there are World-Champions who are 100% "one-eyed" - in 3 cushion, Pool-Billiards, too. So *they* are able to get the correct perception of a shot.
And if this perception *gets* you perfectly to the shot- a different way could do that , too.
Myself is also blind like a drunken smurph. One-eyed is not a problem at all.

lg
Ingo

 

[(((Satori)))]

Satori,

I think Beiber beat me to it slightly, what he said is correct. I'm not sure what you meant by your paragraph above, but you can NOT see both the CTE line and the secondary aim line from multiple positions. Yes, you can move your eyes or body a little right, a little left, and you might be close to one or both lines, but you won't see the true one position where both intersect perfectly. That's why there are two lines, if just viewing the CTE line or the secondary aim line there is the possibility that you are looking from a different angle and starting from an incorrect position.


Scott

Thank you for taking the time to explain what you have experienced but Stan has made it clear to me that what you have explained is not correct.

According to him you do not position yourself where the two lines intersect, that is what I thought also, but according to him you do not need to be on either line directly.

I still have no idea where he wants me to be but one thing I am certain of is Stan or Landon are not positioned where the two lines intersect. The tell tell sign is their body, head, and more importantly the eyes are always the same distance away from the cue ball when their visuals are locked in no matter what visuals they are using.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE DIFFERENT VISUALS BY POSITIONING YOURSELF AT THE INTERSECTION POINT OF THE TWO LINES AND REMAIN THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THE CUE BALL ON EVERY SHOT.

You can prove this to yourself by testing it out.

1) Set the cueball and object ball one diamond apart.
2) Align yourself at the intersection point of ctre and secondary a.
3) Notice your distance from the cue ball.
4) now remain on the ctre line (no left or right movement allowed) and change the secondary line to b.
5) Notice that the only way to position yourself on the new intersection point is to back away from the cue ball.

 

[AtLarge]

Where is your head when you see the visuals?

Are you directly on the cte line? No
Are you directly on the secondary line? No

Are you on both lines at the same time?

Yes Your body is at an angle to see the ctel and cbe to A or B or C or B depending on which way your are cutting the ob. When I have the lines set I focus with my eyes (I do not move my head) on the center of the cb and if I have to go to the ccb from the left or right.

I hope this helps

Hal Houle did some of his posting under the screen name kildegirl 4 or 5 years ago. This screen name has 4 posts since 2008, and none of those 4 sounds like Hal. What's the story with that?

 

[LAMas]

Lamas

In my opinoin it doesn t matter what kind of system you are using to aim. Absolutley no matter which one.
It s all about getting *the right perspective*-nothing else. We know, that there are World-Champions who are 100% "one-eyed" - in 3 cushion, Pool-Billiards, too. So *they* are able to get the correct perception of a shot.
And if this perception *gets* you perfectly to the shot- a different way could do that , too.
Myself is also blind like a drunken smurph. One-eyed is not a problem at all.

lg
Ingo

I concur.
The 'Perception' is the recollection of a geometric relationship that achieved the desired result....however acheived, even if one doesn't know geometry.
Thanks:smile:

 

[LAMas]

Thank you for taking the time to explain what you have experienced but Stan has made it clear to me that what you have explained is not correct.

According to him you do not position yourself where the two lines intersect, that is what I thought also, but according to him you do not need to be on either line directly.

I still have no idea where he wants me to be but one thing I am certain of is Stan or Landon are not positioned where the two lines intersect. The tell tell sign is their body, head, and more importantly the eyes are always the same distance away from the cue ball when their visuals are locked in no matter what visuals they are using.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE DIFFERENT VISUALS BY POSITIONING YOURSELF AT THE INTERSECTION POINT OF THE TWO LINES AND REMAIN THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THE CUE BALL ON EVERY SHOT.

You can prove this to yourself by testing it out.

1) Set the cueball and object ball one diamond apart.
2) Align yourself at the intersection point of ctre and secondary a.
3) Notice your distance from the cue ball.
4) now remain on the ctre line (no left or right movement allowed) and change the secondary line to b.
5) Notice that the only way to position yourself on the new intersection point is to back away from the cue ball.

This is true if one places more importance on the CTE line than the secondary. When one aquires the secondary line to A, B, C or 1/8 he needs to move his eyes laterally and perhaps away from the CTE line while keeping his bridge and eye/s at the same distance away from the CB especially if one only has one eye.:smile:

 

[stan shuffett]

I concur.
The 'Perception' is the recollection of a geometric relationship that achieved the desired result....however acheived, even if one doesn't know geometry.
Thanks:smile:

The perceptions are a result of CB OB objectivity that result in a visual perception that is 1/2 tip pivot AWAY from the shot line.

CTE is NOT about individual perceptions and from there each individual makes his own personal adjustment or discovery of shot lines.

At first, when learning CTE, one's eyes must learn the new way of seeing CB OB relationships and the body must learn the movements to CCB. All of this is based on system objectivity.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Fatboy]

Can a shooter with only one eye succeed?

Ike Runnels is doing pretty good with one eye, also Patch Bashier(SP?) colud play too.