Double post
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Learning CTE
- Thread starter gazman100
- Start date
Stan,
Is the following statement true or false?
The one true position to view your visuals is where both lines intersect.
Did you see the diagram I posted where I mentioned that you need to move to the right or the left in order to change both the CTE line and the aim line?
Why are you talking about moving backwards?
When you do that in your example, yes the aim line would change from A to B, but then the CTE line would pointing out into space, because both visual lines have to move. Where as when moving to the left or right slightly you can adjust your visual of the aim line, but keep the CTE line constant.
The cte line is straight. Once you are locked onto the cte line, in order to remain on the cte line you can not move right or left. Correct?
Incorrect.
Put your right hand in a fist at nose level about a foot away from your face. Do the same with your left hand and put it in front of your right hand about 6 to 8".
Line up the center of the top of your right hand so that it aligns with the edge of your left hand. Now move your head to the left or the right while keeping that visual intact. You'll notice that the left edge of your right hand will change, but you can still keep the first visual the same.
I tried your exercise and let's simply agree to disagree on wether that is possible.
I have an exercise I'd like you to try.
Draw a diagram, like you previously did, with one cue ball and one object ball. Next use red lines to show the visuals for ctre & le2a. Now use a blue line on the same set of balls to show ctre & le2b.
Notice where the two sets of visuals intersect. See if there is any way possible for them to intersect the same distance away from the cue ball.
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I have been very clear in what I have said about how to see the visuals. They are simple and objective and repeatable. I can demonstrate what I say.
There is no value for me in continuing to spin this wheel.
The place to learn this is on a table.
The perceptions of CTE were not discovered from a math perspective.
CTE is a visual perceptual system and math can not explain CTE perception but fortunately CTE perceptions can be conveyed through language.
CTE at this time will NOT be put into math formula.
And as a footnote to this, I have been working my own new perceptual understandings of CTE and I will not discuss that material at this time.
You will have new perceptual material to work with very soon. In the meantime, a pool table is your best avenue for understanding CTE.
True knowledge comes from experience. Words do not teach anything.
Stan Shuffett
There is no value for me in continuing to spin this wheel.
The place to learn this is on a table.
The perceptions of CTE were not discovered from a math perspective.
CTE is a visual perceptual system and math can not explain CTE perception but fortunately CTE perceptions can be conveyed through language.
CTE at this time will NOT be put into math formula.
And as a footnote to this, I have been working my own new perceptual understandings of CTE and I will not discuss that material at this time.
You will have new perceptual material to work with very soon. In the meantime, a pool table is your best avenue for understanding CTE.
True knowledge comes from experience. Words do not teach anything.
Stan Shuffett
Do you have a table at your house?
My last comment on this. THERE IS NO PHYSICAL CTE LINE. THE CTEL IS A PERCEPTION ONLY.
The unique CTE perception is a prerequisite for connecting with the pockets. If you do not have it, the system does not work.
Stan Shuffett
This is great advice. The reference shots really helped me. Here they are...
http://www.ohrt.com/billiards/ProOnePractice.pdf
And Stan, thank you for your time. You're efforts are helpful and appreciated! I am looking forward to your new DVD.
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You can't perceive both A and B position from the same initial visual position. That should be obvious.
It's not about intersection. As part of your individual preshot routine, you will be standing in a set position behind the cue ball, and you can definitely see A, B, C, and 1/8 alignments from the same starting position/distance without even thinking about it.
If you are really trying to get the system, and not just arguing to argue or trying to come at this from some math/geometry perspective, I think several of us have given you enough advice where in combination with the DVD you would have something more to go on and try at the table. In the last discussion I had with someone here and via email, at this point the person said "Thanks, I'll check that out next time I'm at the table and get back to with any other questions". Maybe you could try the same?
If you are waiting for the math/geometry to make sense on paper, you'll be waiting a while. I'm a math/computer guy as several people are here on the forum, along with engineers, etc. I tried to diagram things, as did others with more time and inclination than me, no dice. On paper it's tough to show. The spatial relationship of the balls needs to be taken into account, as a ball that's a foot further away is visually smaller than one that's closer. It does work at the table though, so either it's a visual trick or all of the feedback we get with our eye/brain connection in 3D space is just too tough to show at this time on 2D paper.
Scott
Good stuff, Scott.
What's awesome about Pro One, is that it's so ingrained now, that I don't even "see" the visuals anymore. I just know where to stand, and then I pivot left or right.
I can also usually tell once I'm down on the shot if I'm correct. If not, then I'll get back up and be more deliberate with the whole process.
Some here do not pivot anymore, but just get down into the shot based on the visuals that achieve success.
That's right, SEE and SHOOT and that's what the young man is doing. I referred to The PRO ONE movements on DVD1 as pivots but no longer.
It is not wrong, though, if someone still refers to those movements as pivots.
The PRO ONE natural movements are equal to 1/2 tip pivots. PRO ONE represents natural movements to center cue ball.
The PRO ONE movements to CCB are now being referred to as a visual sweeps or rotations to CCB.
Stan Shuffett
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I concur.
YOu have brought CTE Aiming to the final solution...parsimony.:thumbup:
Pool is a perceptual/motor game. CTE PRO ONE is all about objective perceptions and a simple rotation to CCB.
CTE just happens to represent a level of visual and physical intelligence that math has not been able to touch.
I am quite proud of my work and the advancements that I have provided concerning perception and how it leads to geometric solutions.
Stan Shuffett
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I had the pleasure of spending Thursday afternoon with Stan at his home "office". Took a slight detour on the way to DCC. I had been working with Pro One for slightly over two weeks since receiving the DVD.
Stan helped me understand the visuals better, particularly CTE, edge to core. I'm not going to reveal Stan's processes here, that's up to him. However, what I will say is that Stan was able to show by example, quite conclusively that Pro One absolutely works by knocking in shots from all kinds of different angles from practically every position on the table. Even more convincing was how I was able to do the same though not yet nearly as proficient as Stan. Thing is, even my misses were very close. Given I was only aiming by going to center CB, there is no other reasonable explanation aside from Pro One being a viable aiming system.
It may be helpful to some considering Pro One or who, like myself, are struggling a bit with understanding it for me to list some of the things I have gone through to date.
1. If you were a "go down on the CB and fidget" to find your aim line versus stepping into the line and trusting it type of aimer, this system takes a lot of getting used to. Finding the visuals at first (and still to some extent) isn't an easy thing to do. I'm guessing for most, it's not going to just jump out at you and be automatic. Like anything, it's takes table time and practice.
2. Getting the stance/footwork to be automatic and comfortable was and is an ongoing struggle. I'm getting more comfortable and that is a result of trusting the visual and allowing your feet to shuffle into position as you step into the shot. Again, table time and some practice to find how this works best for you and becomes comfortable and automatic.
3. I first was trying to step into the shot by focusing on the OB and even the "visual line" I established. I'm now focusing a lot more on center CB. That is what Pro One is all about.
4. Follow Stan's instruction on the video, get used to holding the cue stick as he does and moving the cue stick from left to right. When turning your upper body into the shot, this is critical. Make sure you're turning the body and not doing a half cue stick turn, half body turn (I was doing this which obviously causes you to be off).
5. Trust. Commit. Give Pro One a fair chance. By that I mean, when you're practicing, trust the system, commit to giving it a chance. Even if you think you're going to miss, take the shots at first. If you're like me, you'll be surprised how often the shot goes in center pocket.
I think too many people who can't make this work are simply looking for the silver bullet and expecting this system to yield an immediate miracle. Nowhere does Stan make that promise or even imply that will be the case. I believe now Pro One will yield vastly significant positive results sooner than HAMB. But it does take table time and a commitment. I exchanged emails and phone calls with Stan multiple times between getting the DVD and taking the lesson face to face. Stan would help but also kept saying "Watch the DVD again ... and again." He was right. Every time I watched the DVD, I would pick up something subtle (in some cases, not so subtle, just previously overlooked) that would help me progress.
I believe Pro One is more than an aiming system, it may be more accurate to consider it a complete pool playing system. I know it is way early in my learning curve, but I see numerous other side benefits from Pro One.
1. I suppose it is possible to learn Pro One in some other way, but for me, it has forced me to have a consistent pre-shot routine. This is in total alignment with what I've learned from Scott, I've just not been as disciplined as I needed to be.
2. When performed correctly, the Pro One moves lead you right into a solid stance and stroke set up. Again, it is a perfect compliment to the SPF stroke.
3. Assuming you're going to trust in the system, it removes most of the stress from the shot. This too allows for a more consistent, straight stroke. Once you're down and you take a look at the OB and see you clearly chose the wrong pivot or perhaps was sloppy with the visual, just stand up and go through the process again.
4. If performed properly, the system forces you to work on your CB striking accuracy. It's based upon hitting the CB dead on the vertical axis. This will lead to less misses I believe.
Stan is clearly a humble and warm hearted individual. His knowledge and love of the game of pool is off the charts. He's not doing this for the money, that is absolutely clear to me. He is a special person who loves the game of pool and is dedicating a significant portion of his life right now to bettering the sport. Stan has absolutely ZERO bad to say about any other systems, instructors, experts or anything at all for that matter. If you want to learn Pro One, Stan wants to help. If you don't believe in it or prefer another system, I can assure you Stan has no issue with that either and would only wish you the best in pool.
Thank you Stan, I wish you the best and really appreciate how you've helped my game. I hope Mr. Houle knows of all that you're doing and how you're advancing his concepts. I'm absolutely certain he would be very, very proud of you!
Stan helped me understand the visuals better, particularly CTE, edge to core. I'm not going to reveal Stan's processes here, that's up to him. However, what I will say is that Stan was able to show by example, quite conclusively that Pro One absolutely works by knocking in shots from all kinds of different angles from practically every position on the table. Even more convincing was how I was able to do the same though not yet nearly as proficient as Stan. Thing is, even my misses were very close. Given I was only aiming by going to center CB, there is no other reasonable explanation aside from Pro One being a viable aiming system.
It may be helpful to some considering Pro One or who, like myself, are struggling a bit with understanding it for me to list some of the things I have gone through to date.
1. If you were a "go down on the CB and fidget" to find your aim line versus stepping into the line and trusting it type of aimer, this system takes a lot of getting used to. Finding the visuals at first (and still to some extent) isn't an easy thing to do. I'm guessing for most, it's not going to just jump out at you and be automatic. Like anything, it's takes table time and practice.
2. Getting the stance/footwork to be automatic and comfortable was and is an ongoing struggle. I'm getting more comfortable and that is a result of trusting the visual and allowing your feet to shuffle into position as you step into the shot. Again, table time and some practice to find how this works best for you and becomes comfortable and automatic.
3. I first was trying to step into the shot by focusing on the OB and even the "visual line" I established. I'm now focusing a lot more on center CB. That is what Pro One is all about.
4. Follow Stan's instruction on the video, get used to holding the cue stick as he does and moving the cue stick from left to right. When turning your upper body into the shot, this is critical. Make sure you're turning the body and not doing a half cue stick turn, half body turn (I was doing this which obviously causes you to be off).
5. Trust. Commit. Give Pro One a fair chance. By that I mean, when you're practicing, trust the system, commit to giving it a chance. Even if you think you're going to miss, take the shots at first. If you're like me, you'll be surprised how often the shot goes in center pocket.
I think too many people who can't make this work are simply looking for the silver bullet and expecting this system to yield an immediate miracle. Nowhere does Stan make that promise or even imply that will be the case. I believe now Pro One will yield vastly significant positive results sooner than HAMB. But it does take table time and a commitment. I exchanged emails and phone calls with Stan multiple times between getting the DVD and taking the lesson face to face. Stan would help but also kept saying "Watch the DVD again ... and again." He was right. Every time I watched the DVD, I would pick up something subtle (in some cases, not so subtle, just previously overlooked) that would help me progress.
I believe Pro One is more than an aiming system, it may be more accurate to consider it a complete pool playing system. I know it is way early in my learning curve, but I see numerous other side benefits from Pro One.
1. I suppose it is possible to learn Pro One in some other way, but for me, it has forced me to have a consistent pre-shot routine. This is in total alignment with what I've learned from Scott, I've just not been as disciplined as I needed to be.
2. When performed correctly, the Pro One moves lead you right into a solid stance and stroke set up. Again, it is a perfect compliment to the SPF stroke.
3. Assuming you're going to trust in the system, it removes most of the stress from the shot. This too allows for a more consistent, straight stroke. Once you're down and you take a look at the OB and see you clearly chose the wrong pivot or perhaps was sloppy with the visual, just stand up and go through the process again.
4. If performed properly, the system forces you to work on your CB striking accuracy. It's based upon hitting the CB dead on the vertical axis. This will lead to less misses I believe.
Stan is clearly a humble and warm hearted individual. His knowledge and love of the game of pool is off the charts. He's not doing this for the money, that is absolutely clear to me. He is a special person who loves the game of pool and is dedicating a significant portion of his life right now to bettering the sport. Stan has absolutely ZERO bad to say about any other systems, instructors, experts or anything at all for that matter. If you want to learn Pro One, Stan wants to help. If you don't believe in it or prefer another system, I can assure you Stan has no issue with that either and would only wish you the best in pool.
Thank you Stan, I wish you the best and really appreciate how you've helped my game. I hope Mr. Houle knows of all that you're doing and how you're advancing his concepts. I'm absolutely certain he would be very, very proud of you!
Nocitypool,
Many thanks for your thoughtful post! For sure, it's among my favorite testimonials.
I am glad that your experience was a positive one. Call or email with any questions or concerns.
Please come again when you are in the neighborhood and we'll put some balls in the hole.
Stan Shuffett
Great review nobcity, and exactly matches my experiences with the system and with Stan over the phone and via email. Someday perhaps I'll get to work with him in person as well!!!
Scott
Scott