NEW Center to Edge (C T E ) Pro One Aiming System
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
One thing I hope the DVD will do is to show how SIMPLE CTE is. One of the biggest problems with getting people to understand it is that they complicate the hell out of, without meaning to maybe, I'm really not sure why. Almost everything on AZ trying to get it diagrammed, etc has made it seem so complicated that it makes no sense to almost everybody. IIRC, Hal does not teach the three angle system anymore. Another problem with CTE is that people try to make sense of it through systems Hal no longer uses or teaches.
3-line is the base system and the first system HAL will teach you if you call him. I have not heard of a system yet that does not boil down to this system....even Ghost ball boils "up" to the three line system.
The first thing you will need to know perfectly clear is that 3-line is not a contact point system...it is an "aim point" system.
The aims are as follow (throw out straight in shots and super thin cuts)
Center CB to 1/4 OB
Center CB to Edge OB
1/4 CB to Edge OB
There is a method for super thin cuts that Hal told me was called Shis-ke-bob....However it actually would fall under the CTE method.
The theory is that the above aims will make all shots (highly debated on this forum)...The reality is that it will make most but there are some what I call tweeners...just inside edge, just outside edge, just outside 1/4 ob etc......I have a method that I came up with that I use to identify these shots which is not very often...
The shots that you will miss with this method are those tweeners and you may miss them badly as you may choose the wrong aim line.......I would say that CTE would correct that problem of the tweeners but even with CTE you still have to start with the correct tip offset and pivot.
I came up with a method that quickly and easily identifys the correct aim line (and if its a tweener) that I have been told is called "center to center" aiming so unfortunatly I did not invent anything new.
Well then I guess I better make a DVD.....(JK)
:wink:So I came up with this when I was just learning to use the 3-line system..I wanted a way to verify that the aim line was accurate with what the Ghost Ball was doing. I hardly ever do this any more since I can now visualize the whole process but it was has huge (to me) during the learning curve of using "aim points" vs contact points.
What I did was stand in a straight line behind the OB with my cue and place the tip of my cue stick right where the center of the Ghost Ball would be. Keeping my cue tip on the spot where the center of the GB is I would pivot my cue around so that it was directly over center of the CB...Now I had a direct line from the "center" of the CB to the "center" of the GB....That is the "center to center" method.
Now....Except for really thin cuts...If I simply extend that line through the center of the GB it almost always points to one of the three line "aim points" on the OB.
I almost forgot...How do you know where the center of the GB is??? Well what I found is that if you move your tip closer or further away from the OB the reflection will move up and down the OB...when it is half way up the OB it is centered...I used the shadow from the light to tell me when the reflection was half way up...the OB will be darker on the bottom half than the top....I stop just before the reflection goes from dark to light on the OB...that puts your tip where the center of the GB would be.
Last edited:
Well then I guess I better make a DVD.....(JK)
So I came up with this when I was just learning to use the 3-line system..I wanted a way to verify that the aim line was accurate with what the Ghost Ball was doing. I hardly ever do this any more since I can now visualize the whole process but it was has huge (to me) during the learning curve of using "aim points" vs contact points.
What I did was stand in a straight line behind the OB with my cue and place the tip of my cue stick right where the center of the Ghost Ball would be. Keeping my cue tip on the spot where the center of the GB is I would pivot my cue around so that it was directly over center of the CB...Now I had a direct line from the "center" of the CB to the "center" of the GB....That is the "center to center" method.
Now....Except for really thin cuts...If I simply extend that line through the center of the GB it almost always points to one of the three line "aim points" on the OB.
I almost forgot...How do you know where the center of the GB is??? Well what I found is that if you move your tip closer or further away from the OB the reflection will move up and down the OB...when it is half way up the OB it is centered...I used the shadow from the light to tell me when the reflection was half way up...the OB will be darker on the bottom half than the top....I stop just before the reflection goes from dark to light on the OB...that puts your tip where the center of the GB would be.
BnR,
I'm glad that I asked. This is a great tip (no pun) to place your tip up to the OB along the centerline going to the pocket and looking for the reflection moving up the OB as the tip is moved closer and stopping at half the way up. I presume that that "half" may be lower for a 11mm tip than a 13mm one.
Why won't that also work for a thin cut say 85 degrees - except that you have to look for a blemish/spot on the cloth to sight to or a spot on the rail when you are down and aiming.?
Thanks.
I want to believe
Joey,
I follow your posts and time after time you impress me as some one who always keeps one foot on the floor (read: grounded). Your approach has always seemed to be reasonable and rationale.
Every time something regarding CTE gets posted it seems like I am up at the table trying to figure out some new convoluted process. At time it feels like I have found the Holy Grail, other times it just leaves me disillusioned.
I have been waiting for your take on Stan's system and was very heartened and am very encouraged by it.
Let me be clear...I am not looking for a easier way to pocket balls, I am always looking for the BEST way to pocket balls.
I look forward to Stan's video. If it were not for the geographics involved I would schedule a personal visit with him immediately.
Bottom line...yours in the review I have been waiting for.
By the way...this is coming from someone who was dipped in action acid at the Sport Palace back in the 70's when it was the place to play in the Big Easy.
Thank you.
Tommy
Joey,
I follow your posts and time after time you impress me as some one who always keeps one foot on the floor (read: grounded). Your approach has always seemed to be reasonable and rationale.
Every time something regarding CTE gets posted it seems like I am up at the table trying to figure out some new convoluted process. At time it feels like I have found the Holy Grail, other times it just leaves me disillusioned.
I have been waiting for your take on Stan's system and was very heartened and am very encouraged by it.
Let me be clear...I am not looking for a easier way to pocket balls, I am always looking for the BEST way to pocket balls.
I look forward to Stan's video. If it were not for the geographics involved I would schedule a personal visit with him immediately.
Bottom line...yours in the review I have been waiting for.
By the way...this is coming from someone who was dipped in action acid at the Sport Palace back in the 70's when it was the place to play in the Big Easy.
Thank you.
Tommy
Tommy,
Thanks for the kind words and I do try to stay "grounded". I've never looked for the Holy Grail of pool but have always looked ways to improve my game. I think like most people that the Holy Grail in pool is a lot of talent and a lot of good practice. CTE/Pro One is just one of the many ways I am trying to improve my game.
Hal Houle is the originator of CTE and of that there is no question.
No one can ever take that away from Hal. He caught more heat for CTE than any living human being should have to and for that he has my deepest sympathy.
Like Dave Segal has said before, it would be great to see Hal in the Hall of Fame. Until a video is produced which precisely defines the accuracy of Stan's CTE/Pro One there is little chance of that. This video will have to improve the games of the masses as well as the elite.
I believe Stan is interested in giving Hal credit for being the original Master of CTE as well as many other systems so I'm hoping to see Hal get what he so richly deserves.
Hal and CTE have been hotly debated for many years. I doubt that Stan's defining and refining will change any of that no matter how exact CTE/Pro One is. :grin-square:
Perhaps the video will be large enough to honor Hal Houle for what he created.
The Sport Palace was a unique place for sure. Glad you had a chance to see a real pool room. It was my favorite pool room of all time.
When I am able to demonstrate superior play using CTE/Pro One, I will be shouting it from the rooftops. For now it is a learning curve, at least that's how I view it. The basic information is easy and I can understand the euphoria that some people exude when they use CTE and pocket balls that they could not pocket previous to CTE. Sometimes, I think that CTE might make some shots so easy that the shooter forgets that aiming and alignment are only a portion of the whole pie.
Hopefully Stan's video will clear up some misconceptions about CTE/Pro One and what Hal was trying to teach.
Best Regards,
JoeyA
Hal never mentioned this to me. When I spoke with him all he talked about was CTE. I think it was two years ago that I first spoke with him about it.
Hal has taken way too much grief over the years when all he has done is be a gentleman and a very sharing one at that!
I personally tried to learn CTE over the phone and I failed. The house I was calling from had nothing to deaden the sound of the balls and the noise was atrocious for Hal.
I appreciate Stan giving Hal the credit that he does and I will order the DVD the day that I know that it is available
Thanks to Spidey and the rest of the AZ'ers who know Hal's system and have tried to teach the rest of us. But I am just too bogged down with both good info and misinfo and need a good video if not personal attention.
I personally tried to learn CTE over the phone and I failed. The house I was calling from had nothing to deaden the sound of the balls and the noise was atrocious for Hal.
I appreciate Stan giving Hal the credit that he does and I will order the DVD the day that I know that it is available
Thanks to Spidey and the rest of the AZ'ers who know Hal's system and have tried to teach the rest of us. But I am just too bogged down with both good info and misinfo and need a good video if not personal attention.
Gary,
I'm sure that Stan would love to start building a database of people who are interested in the video could send Stan a PM along with their contact information so that when it is ready, he can contact those who are interested.
Currently there is no completion date set but I'm sure Stan will keep everyone informed when it gets closer to completion.
JoeyA
Man I'm gonna look like such a pot-stirrer, but there was this quote that's been bothering me. I think hal said every pro since 1924 has been using the system. I always wondered... is he implying he sort of discovered it rather than invented it? And what happened in 1924? I'm not saying this to be a jerk, just wondering about the significance of that year. Does anyone know what he's referring to? Obviously CTE as we know it was entirely taught and promoted by him.
Sorry for the sidetrack, I meant to ask it but it sort of slipped my mind in the other CTE threads. Now that I'm reminded I figure I'll ask here rather than start a new thread, which would make me look like an even bigger tool :B
I don't know where you heard that but I know he never said that to me either of the two times I spoke with him about it. Hal taught a fractional aiming system for several years which I never could understand. I don't remember him making any kind of comment like that then, either.
Hal saying, "Just center-to-edge it and the ball goes in the hole. There's only one shot."
Hal making sure my brother, Marc, is arcing his pivot properly.
Last edited:
I can't remember when I spoke with Hal...It was at least three years ago. The second time I talked to him was first thing in the morning...He actually called me..and we ended up talking for about an hour. He loved to talk/teach on the phone...
He told me that he devoloped his methods while on the road with Ralph Greenleaf.
One of his analogys that sticks in my mind the most and was probably the most helpful in me understanding his method was the "shotgun and the water tower"
I don't know why he did not speak of 3-line to you...perhaps he was under the imression you already knew that part or some other reason.
When I first spoke with him I told him I was brand new to his systems but wanted to learn. He then started with the 3-line system.
During the second call I mentioned that I had a problem with really thin cuts. He told me I am going to give you a method for that called "shis-ke-bob" I now know this is part of the CTE aiming system and is the only time I use CTE...but it works very well for this shot becuase the aim is "off the ball" He then told me to aim the inside 1/4 of the CB to the edge of the OB and then pivot the cue to center CB... He never went any further with the rest of the CTE system with me...
Sometime later he moved from San Fran and I have not spoken with him since.
I am looking at the photo of the guy down on the shot, WHAT DO I SEE on his Right Arm. A CAST, or is it a Training Device?
How about a light reflection?
It almost looks like a Secret Training Device to keep the Arm is position, normally light will reflect but not in that pattern. But I do not know the Light Source, plus I see some things that made me ask the first ?
BTW I was a Freelance Photo 20 years.