Pool Sharks in Vegas is Closing

[lorider]

The most hurtful thing that happened to pool is the APA.

Don't get snowed by their numbers. The APA and other bar leagues....are the main groups responsible for pool's status.

Don't believe me? Go to a league event that attracts several teams. What do you see?

I'll tell you what you see.....you see the exact reason why your neighbor will leave home with his golf bag over his shoulder but never with his pool cue.

i know nothing about you except from what i read on this forum so my opinion may be way off base. based on your statements you remind me of a former room owner in my area. while you may or may not run your bussiness the way he ran his you both have the same opinion on this subject.

since he catered strictly to seroius pool players i never knew of his room until i started dating a girl who worked there. after dating her a while she asked me to visit her where she worked and told me the name of the place. i said ,,,where is that at. she told me and then she said...its the best kept secret in town. she was right...he did no advertising. heck i played there for a year before i knew he repaired cues and converted house cues. no juke box...no tv;s just pool. since he relied solely on serious players his bussiness slowly died.

my current g/f works in another pool hall part time.... she works full time as a secretary. from what they both have told me ...serious players don't buy much and don't tip worth a shit.

we have another pool hall in town that rocks and from what i can tell is thriving . his room had gold crowns and valleys ....a few more 9's than 7's. recently he added 2 more valleys.... 2 9' diamonds and 1- 7' diamond. he said he would have added more if he had the space. he also has sponsored some pros....hosted pro tournaments that were streamed by big truck with another one coming up soon. he host both handicapped and non handicapped tournaments occasionaly.

some nights there is a waiting list for an available table.

guess what he does ? cater to leagues. you name it...he has it.

apa...napa..travel money league....in house money league on bar tables....in house money league on gold crowns. weekly 9 ball tourny on 9 footers. dedicated one pocket tables.

he has new tv's scattered around the room.... a juke box that is seldom played but is turned down low. a golf game ....dart games ...and a punching bag that is seldom used ...thank gawd. irritating as hell when you are down on a shot and some one smacks that thing.

quite a few times you see couples come in and play on a fri or sat night.

as you can see ....he offers something for every one.

one more thing about leagues. he paid my travel money league yearly dues for my team. he also provides open tables for practice for 2 hours before league starts. once league starts he closes the tables but provides every team with a roll of quarters. once league is over he will open the tables for free practice again.

based on his success you might want to rethink your stance on leagues. i play apa there 3 times a week

 

[skip100]

You mean you're telling me that encouraging league play - in other words, bringing in dozens of people who buy drinks and play pool at otherwise slow times every week - helps businesses sell drinks and table time? Who would have thought?

 

[Teacherman]

i know nothing about you except from what i read on this forum so my opinion may be way off base. based on your statements you remind me of a former room owner in my area. while you may or may not run your bussiness the way he ran his you both have the same opinion on this subject.

since he catered strictly to seroius pool players i never knew of his room until i started dating a girl who worked there. after dating her a while she asked me to visit her where she worked and told me the name of the place. i said ,,,where is that at. she told me and then she said...its the best kept secret in town. she was right...he did no advertising. heck i played there for a year before i knew he repaired cues and converted house cues. no juke box...no tv;s just pool. since he relied solely on serious players his bussiness slowly died.

my current g/f works in another pool hall part time.... she works full time as a secretary. from what they both have told me ...serious players don't buy much and don't tip worth a shit.

we have another pool hall in town that rocks and from what i can tell is thriving . his room had gold crowns and valleys ....a few more 9's than 7's. recently he added 2 more valleys.... 2 9' diamonds and 1- 7' diamond. he said he would have added more if he had the space. he also has sponsored some pros....hosted pro tournaments that were streamed by big truck with another one coming up soon. he host both handicapped and non handicapped tournaments occasionaly.

some nights there is a waiting list for an available table.

guess what he does ? cater to leagues. you name it...he has it.

apa...napa..travel money league....in house money league on bar tables....in house money league on gold crowns. weekly 9 ball tourny on 9 footers. dedicated one pocket tables.

he has new tv's scattered around the room.... a juke box that is seldom played but is turned down low. a golf game ....dart games ...and a punching bag that is seldom used ...thank gawd. irritating as hell when you are down on a shot and some one smacks that thing.

quite a few times you see couples come in and play on a fri or sat night.

as you can see ....he offers something for every one.

one more thing about leagues. he paid my travel money league yearly dues for my team. he also provides open tables for practice for 2 hours before league starts. once league starts he closes the tables but provides every team with a roll of quarters. once league is over he will open the tables for free practice again.

based on his success you might want to rethink your stance on leagues. i play apa there 3 times a week

Once again....

I know better than to get into a discussion with the disadvantaged.

I really do.

Read the thread.

 

[cardiac kid]

Sorry, but I've seen it happening for years here at my home room and have talked to other owners about it too (you might try that sometime). Leagues can improve pool room business if pool rooms embrace it. The worst attitude (not to mention personality) they could have is yours.

pj
chgo

PJ,

Teach does some great things for the game of pool and his customer base. His posts are sometimes also along the lines of what we read from John and Lou from time to time. NO ONE has all the answers. Their comments are just THEIR opinions not absolute fact. Some opinions are more educated than others but still just opinions. Pool rooms are businesses just like a corner store or gas station. They succeed or fail pretty much by the same rules.

Remember back in the early 70's, a kid walked into Ridge Billiards in Rochester, NY. He became one of the greatest pool players of all time. Since that time, no one else has left our room with the same brilliant future in the game we all love. Yes, Dave Grau, Shane Winters and Ron Casanzio have burst on the pool scene over the intervening years. None to the same degree as Captain Hook. Where are the new players to take their places? None in our room. Lots and lots of league players but none who have the desire to really try to make it to the top of the game.

Perhaps Teach is correct. Leagues have limited impact. My complaint is the handicap problem. Are we teaching new players to rely on a handicap instead of helping them get better? I play or have played APA, TAP, BCAPL, ACS and VNEA. I'm in the top few percentages in each league. Does the room owner cater to me or the average league player? We both know the answer to that question. The real answer lies somewhere between the two extremes. Find the balance and the room succeeds. Of course, JMHO.

Lyn

 

[Teacherman]

Perhaps Teach is correct. Leagues have limited impact.

Please read the thread. Until then....

I know better than to get into a discussion with the disadvantaged.

I really do.

 

[Craig Fales]

Was in vegas about 3 months back no surprise that pool sharks going out of buisness stopped there to play weekly tournament told I wasn't allowed to play cause nobody new me I said its vegas how many people walk in on a weekly basis nobody here nows do they all get turned away I was rudely told if I didn't like it leave so I did went to Ted G place good timez bye far the players pool hall in vegas now thanks Ted for your hospitality and smoke free facility

This is why it's going out. Dick attitudes are shutting it down.

 

[realkingcobra]

Once again, Pool Sharks had Diamond bar tables and leagues to go with them.

 

[BrianaBrown13]

From my understanding, the strip mall that it was located in had a change in ownership. The new owners must not have re-rewed the lease or jacked up the rates. Oscar was suppose to hold a Mezz West State event there back in October, the event was moved to Northridge because of the news.

 

[JoeyA]

Interesting thoughts for sure.

JoeyA

Ever see a golf course inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to play golf?

Ever see a bowling alley inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to bowl?

Ever see a tennis court inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to play tennis?

Golf courses have bars. Tennis clubs have bars. Bowling alleys have bars. But no bars have golf courses / tennis cts / bowlingalleys.

Therefore.....you have businesses whose main product is their sport. Yes, they sell alcohol to their customers also but it is secondary....even if it adds up to large number. The customer spends money ON THE SPORT.....THE SPORT....is the attraction. The sport itself generates revenue.....which can be used to promote the sport further....to develop the talent....which leads to pro tours being worthy endeavors.

A pool table is found in almost every bar in the country. All it takes is a space of 250sq ft or so. It is used to sell alcohol. Many times it is given away free.....to sell alcohol. Few bar owners have any interest in the sport. They use the sport to sell alcohol.

Therefore.....every bar in the country takes business from the pool room owner.....most of whom are into the sport....(or they wouldn't own one)....most of whom invest in the sport, buy their own equipment, run tournaments, develop talent.....promote the sport. Yes, many sell alcohol also. But their product is....their interest is.....the sport.

You have bars with pool tables.....and you have pool rooms with bars. Bars with pool tables attract a power drinker.....someone who goes there to drink and might play pool. And some of them get organized into league teams.....which....the sport would benefit if these teams were in a pool room where the real rules were known, etiquette learned, and the game taken care of. Pool rooms attract people who go there to play pool and might have a drink. The pool room owner is interested in the sport but his revenue stream is limited by the bar owner.....therefore little money can be invested back into the sport.....it's tough enough to just meet his nut.

That's the financial end.

What bars with pool tables do to the game in terms of image, drunks fighting, ridiculous league rules, etc....is another story.

Not until there is a National Billiard Room Only association with a Billiard Room Only league....will the sport grow into what it is capable of.

 

[Banks]

Please read the thread. Until then....

No wonder you have a hard time being successful.

 

[Teacherman]

I'm in my 27th year but my success isnt the issue.

Growing the sport is the issue.

You do that by getting organized league and tmnt play out of the bar and into the pool room.

 

[Banks]

I'm in my 27th year but my success isnt the issue.

Growing the sport is the issue.

You do that by getting organized league and tmnt play out of the bar and into the pool room.

This is why halls close. Instead of working together and using the largest customer base out there to their advantage, pool halls just expect anyone that plays to stop going out for drinks and fun and start going to the place where they're treated or seen as crap.

 

[Rateking]

Translation - Teacher refused to pander to the APA and they went elsewhere to have a good time.

Nothing wrong with having people enjoy the sport in a social setting. Definitely NOT killing the sport though.

Ever see a golf course inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to play golf?

Ever see a bowling alley inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to bowl?

Ever see a tennis court inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to play tennis?

Golf courses have bars. Tennis clubs have bars. Bowling alleys have bars. But no bars have golf courses / tennis cts / bowlingalleys.

Therefore.....you have businesses whose main product is their sport. Yes, they sell alcohol to their customers also but it is secondary....even if it adds up to large number. The customer spends money ON THE SPORT.....THE SPORT....is the attraction. The sport itself generates revenue.....which can be used to promote the sport further....to develop the talent....which leads to pro tours being worthy endeavors.

A pool table is found in almost every bar in the country. All it takes is a space of 250sq ft or so. It is used to sell alcohol. Many times it is given away free.....to sell alcohol. Few bar owners have any interest in the sport. They use the sport to sell alcohol.

Therefore.....every bar in the country takes business from the pool room owner.....most of whom are into the sport....(or they wouldn't own one)....most of whom invest in the sport, buy their own equipment, run tournaments, develop talent.....promote the sport. Yes, many sell alcohol also. But their product is....their interest is.....the sport.

You have bars with pool tables.....and you have pool rooms with bars. Bars with pool tables attract a power drinker.....someone who goes there to drink and might play pool. And some of them get organized into league teams.....which....the sport would benefit if these teams were in a pool room where the real rules were known, etiquette learned, and the game taken care of. Pool rooms attract people who go there to play pool and might have a drink. The pool room owner is interested in the sport but his revenue stream is limited by the bar owner.....therefore little money can be invested back into the sport.....it's tough enough to just meet his nut.

That's the financial end.

What bars with pool tables do to the game in terms of image, drunks fighting, ridiculous league rules, etc....is another story.

Not until there is a National Billiard Room Only association with a Billiard Room Only league....will the sport grow into what it is capable of.

 

[Teacherman]

This is why halls close. Instead of working together and using the largest customer base out there to their advantage, pool halls just expect anyone that plays to stop going out for drinks and fun and start going to the place where they're treated or seen as crap.

Nice try.

If you'd read the thread you wouldn't make a fool of yourself.....I think.

 

[Teacherman]

APA is on life support in St. Louis. It has been for years.

Customers here are way too smart for the APA.

But....another league took it's place....so the same problem still exists.

 

[Banks]

Nice try.

If you'd read the thread you wouldn't make a fool of yourself.....I think.

You're out of touch and have nothing positive to contribute to such a topic.

Speaking of reading.. you could use a refresher if you think what you keep going on about has any relevance in this thread.

 

[july9x]

Ever see a golf course inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to play golf?

Ever see a bowling alley inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to bowl?

Ever see a tennis court inside a bar? Where do you go if you want to play tennis?

Golf courses have bars. Tennis clubs have bars. Bowling alleys have bars. But no bars have golf courses / tennis cts / bowlingalleys.

Therefore.....you have businesses whose main product is their sport. Yes, they sell alcohol to their customers also but it is secondary....even if it adds up to large number. The customer spends money ON THE SPORT.....THE SPORT....is the attraction. The sport itself generates revenue.....which can be used to promote the sport further....to develop the talent....which leads to pro tours being worthy endeavors.

A pool table is found in almost every bar in the country. All it takes is a space of 250sq ft or so. It is used to sell alcohol. Many times it is given away free.....to sell alcohol. Few bar owners have any interest in the sport. They use the sport to sell alcohol.

Therefore.....every bar in the country takes business from the pool room owner.....most of whom are into the sport....(or they wouldn't own one)....most of whom invest in the sport, buy their own equipment, run tournaments, develop talent.....promote the sport. Yes, many sell alcohol also. But their product is....their interest is.....the sport.

You have bars with pool tables.....and you have pool rooms with bars. Bars with pool tables attract a power drinker.....someone who goes there to drink and might play pool. And some of them get organized into league teams.....which....the sport would benefit if these teams were in a pool room where the real rules were known, etiquette learned, and the game taken care of. Pool rooms attract people who go there to play pool and might have a drink. The pool room owner is interested in the sport but his revenue stream is limited by the bar owner.....therefore little money can be invested back into the sport.....it's tough enough to just meet his nut.

That's the financial end.

What bars with pool tables do to the game in terms of image, drunks fighting, ridiculous league rules, etc....is another story.

Not until there is a National Billiard Room Only association with a Billiard Room Only league....will the sport grow into what it is capable of.

Just kill the bar box table, these are cheap and it's killing pool in US, pool is stable (if not slowly growing) in Asian (not sure about Europe) because obliviously 5'8 people has least interesting in baketball or football, they'd take pool all day rather than others, no 7-ft tables meaning there will be only 9-ft tables - they take big space, no bar will be able to carry 10-12 9-ft tables (require twice space more than bar box, twice of cost to buy and maintain + utilities), only true pool hall will stand :yikes:
APA on 9-ft? it would be surprisingly GOOD, you will need at least 2 tables to play 2 games at the same time otherwise it will take 5 hours+ to finish a match, plus 1 or 2 tables to practice, so it will require more tables, more pool rooms will be open, table time will bring more $, you can sell more food and drink because people spend more time here.

 

[purpdrag]

I can't agree more with this. It's spot on.

Do the math. What's the rent per square foot in your area? How many square feet does a pool table use? How much are wages per employee? Insurance? Try to make it work without alcohol, you would be surprised at how tight the margin is.

League players drink, pool players don't. Ever go to a place that has dart leagues? It's a money maker per square foot, the pool table area is a drain on resources if it's a true shooters room.

I've ran the math because I want something to do when I retire in a few years. I would like a clean place with good equipment that all ages could enjoy. I would have to own the building and hope to break even on costs if it was just a pool room, no alcohol and no smoking. Even with alcohol, the proffitt is not that great if you could get people in the doors. I would have to be able to buy the property and expect zero income for my time and effort.

APA leagues are keeping the lights on. If you have a better or innovative biz idea, I would love to hear it. Until pool goes mainstream and attracts upper middle income instead of lower middle income, pool halls will continue to decline. That's why the smoking laws affected pool so harshly. The lower the income level, the higher the probability to become a smoker. I, like most others, I started playing AND smoking in a bar, that sells cheap drinks, with one table in the corner. Put your quarter up and wait your turn. This is not an upper middle income sport. It's what I could afford to do on my offtime. Sailor's aren't rich especially one that grew up on Army bases to begin with. But it does attract the people that I grew up with, my class of people.

I worked hard and got some good rolls in life, I wouldn't mind giving back. I believe it would be a good time but, the math has to add up on a sound biz plan or it would be foolish waste of time.

Someone here has an plan that'll work. Let's here some innovative stuff from the scufflers out there.

Maybe we should keep in touch. I plan to retire in about 11 years and have a similar dream. I tell my friends I have a great money losing idea. I'm going to open a family friendly pool room when I retire. I'd love to get some youth leagues going in addition to the regular leagues and weekly tournaments.

Same as you, wouldn't be trying to get rich but also would need to at least make a few dollars to be able to keep it going.

 

[Celophanewrap]

I'm in my 27th year but my success isnt the issue.

Growing the sport is the issue.

You do that by getting organized league and tmnt play out of the bar and into the pool room.

So how do you force the bars to shut down leagues and tournaments?
I see you've been in business for 27 years so apparently your model has had some success, how did you do it?

 

[chevybob20]

Maybe we should keep in touch. I plan to retire in about 11 years and have a similar dream. I tell my friends I have a great money losing idea. I'm going to open a family friendly pool room when I retire. I'd love to get some youth leagues going in addition to the regular leagues and weekly tournaments.

Same as you, wouldn't be trying to get rich but also would need to at least make a few dollars to be able to keep it going.

Absolutely, the kids are the future of this game. Sharing info is always a good thing.