Secrets!
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
I was going to post a big long reply... with insults and condescension and the whole "softshot" bit...
but... in the past few months I do believe I have "come out the other side"
I have asked ever single good player I have ever met..
"What is the secret to pool??"
they all gave me the same answer... PRACTICE!!
that's it....that is all there is to it..
everything in pool that matters.. happens BEHIND you!!!!
everything you can see is merely the result..
the back hand is the cause.. and the only way to get a good back hand is practice..
all the big money gamblers.. and Mosconi cup contenders KNOW I'm telling the truth..
there is a saying.." if you are not practicing.. someone.. somewhere is.. and when you meet him he will beat you..."
"I AM THAT GUY"
and that saying is the only secret to pool that matters..
I'll let you all get back to the what cue do I buy and how to aim a cut shot portion of the program..
but... in the past few months I do believe I have "come out the other side"
I have asked ever single good player I have ever met..
"What is the secret to pool??"
they all gave me the same answer... PRACTICE!!
that's it....that is all there is to it..
everything in pool that matters.. happens BEHIND you!!!!
everything you can see is merely the result..
the back hand is the cause.. and the only way to get a good back hand is practice..
all the big money gamblers.. and Mosconi cup contenders KNOW I'm telling the truth..
there is a saying.." if you are not practicing.. someone.. somewhere is.. and when you meet him he will beat you..."
"I AM THAT GUY"
and that saying is the only secret to pool that matters..
I'll let you all get back to the what cue do I buy and how to aim a cut shot portion of the program..
Oh yes, just like everything in life, in order to be good and successful there will be secrets or knowledge that one possess that others don't which makes you ONE UP. IMO, the most important secrets, but not all, in pool can be uncovered or discovered eventually by any means by any player who possesses these qualities: DETERMINATION, PATIENCE, AMBITION, PERSEVERANCE, DEDICATION, SERIOUSNESS, RESPECT, and most importantly...LOVE FOR THE GAME(passion). Anybody with these traits can even become a brain surgeon and earn thousands and thousands of money without ever picking up a cue stick. Good and veteran players know exactly what I mean. But Im sure very few are actually READING this.
When any one in any profession has sufficient experience and proficiency they know things that those who don't have that level of experience don't. Those things can be seen as secrets because a lot of them are not published. They are ways to play physically, ways to think about certain situations, ways to match up etc...
Jimmy Reid gave me several tips I have never seen in print. One of them has saved my ass hundreds of times this past 18 years. I have shown this tip to others who didn't know it and watched them light up in delight as they started pocketing difficult shots which gave them fits previously.
I have received tips from Parica, Danny Medina, Buddy Hall, etc... that are not found in books and really can hardly be explained in print.
These top notchers get out on the road and they learn from others but mostly they learn from experience. They simply had to figure it out or go home. You don't get to travel the country coast to coast and live well if you constantly lose. So they had to absorb and process everything they could use to win. How to read a table, how to read an opponent, how to handle different equipment, best percentages, etc...
I know things about putting leather together that are considered secrets. I have a whole wall full of experiments as testament to putting the time in to learn these things. However there are other things I don't know that old saddlemakers do know.
I share with people who ask me. I share some things publicly if I feel like it. I think that the more things are shared the better everyone becomes. But I also understand the competitiveness that keeps some people from sharing. If I was a road player I'd not be looking to smarten up the people I was trying to earn money from. The guy at the cell phone store doesn't have a big sign up telling you that the $300 phone only costs $50 to make.
There are really no magic secrets in pool. There are techniques that are tremendously helpful like ways to aim which have as their goal the end result getting to the state of not aiming as Hal Mix told one student. Hal taught his student all the various ways to bank in order to get him to the point where he just sees it. This is much different than if Hal Mix had told that student to just hit a million bank shots to learn to bank.
The biggest secret is that better players know more than weaker players. Therefore the better player will always be able to impart something that feels like a secret to the weaker player. And most of the time it will be something worth learning.
Jimmy Reid gave me several tips I have never seen in print. One of them has saved my ass hundreds of times this past 18 years. I have shown this tip to others who didn't know it and watched them light up in delight as they started pocketing difficult shots which gave them fits previously.
I have received tips from Parica, Danny Medina, Buddy Hall, etc... that are not found in books and really can hardly be explained in print.
These top notchers get out on the road and they learn from others but mostly they learn from experience. They simply had to figure it out or go home. You don't get to travel the country coast to coast and live well if you constantly lose. So they had to absorb and process everything they could use to win. How to read a table, how to read an opponent, how to handle different equipment, best percentages, etc...
I know things about putting leather together that are considered secrets. I have a whole wall full of experiments as testament to putting the time in to learn these things. However there are other things I don't know that old saddlemakers do know.
I share with people who ask me. I share some things publicly if I feel like it. I think that the more things are shared the better everyone becomes. But I also understand the competitiveness that keeps some people from sharing. If I was a road player I'd not be looking to smarten up the people I was trying to earn money from. The guy at the cell phone store doesn't have a big sign up telling you that the $300 phone only costs $50 to make.
There are really no magic secrets in pool. There are techniques that are tremendously helpful like ways to aim which have as their goal the end result getting to the state of not aiming as Hal Mix told one student. Hal taught his student all the various ways to bank in order to get him to the point where he just sees it. This is much different than if Hal Mix had told that student to just hit a million bank shots to learn to bank.
The biggest secret is that better players know more than weaker players. Therefore the better player will always be able to impart something that feels like a secret to the weaker player. And most of the time it will be something worth learning.
Ok, here's a couple, one a little more broad and one very specific. The pros all know this. ALWAYS keep your composure! Never let anything fluster you. Stay calm and you have a better chance to win. Sounds pretty simple but it isn't. Ever see what happens when a pool player gets excited? The good players stay calm even after making a great shot. Keep your emotions in check at all times and your results will be better.
Here's one you may not know. On a super thin cut shot, you can cut the ball more cleanly by cueing with low english (center ball, firm stroke). You'll make a cleaner hit and get zero skid. You can actually cut the ball thinner (and more accurately) using low english. TRUE! I'm talking super thin cut shots, where you need to hit the outside edge of the ball with a firm stroke. Try it, you'll like it! But remember, this is a secret!
Here's one you may not know. On a super thin cut shot, you can cut the ball more cleanly by cueing with low english (center ball, firm stroke). You'll make a cleaner hit and get zero skid. You can actually cut the ball thinner (and more accurately) using low english. TRUE! I'm talking super thin cut shots, where you need to hit the outside edge of the ball with a firm stroke. Try it, you'll like it! But remember, this is a secret!
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Ok, here's a couple, one a little more broad and one very specific. The pros all know this. ALWAYS keep your composure! Never let anything fluster you. Stay calm and you have a better chance to win. Sounds pretty simple but it isn't. Ever see what happens when a pool player gets excited? The good players stay calm even after making a great shot. Keep your emotions in check at all times and your results will be better.
Here's one you may not know. On a super thin cut shot, you can cut the ball more cleanly by cueing with low english (center ball, firm stroke). You'll make a cleaner hit and get zero skid. You can actually cut the ball thinner (and more accurately) using low english. TRUE! I'm talking super thin cut shots, where you need to hit the outside edge of the ball with a firm stroke. Try it, you'll like it! But remember, this is a secret!
I think hitting thin cuts with extreme inside english with short shaft gives you better chance in making them. CB deflects to offset aim errors to your favor, in fact you will always over cut these balls into the pocket shooting them this way. But in pool there is always a way!
Bar Box 8-Ball Break
Depending on the 8-ball rules you follow, the rules we used to follow at my neighborhood pool room was that it is a win if you make the 8-ball on the break.
So, naturally, everybody started trying to find that magic 8-ball break that would pocket the 8. :grin:
Here's the secret 8-ball break formula on a bar table:
Place the cueball 1 inch from the diamond behind the head string. This is the one and only diamond on the rail that is between the corner pocket and the head string.
Aim for the crack between the head ball (usually always the 1-ball if proper 8-ball racking etiquette is in practice).
Using low inside english, slam that 1-ball and the second ball in the rack simulataneously as hard as you can whack it. :grin-devilish:
If you have a good rack and hit your target correctly, the 8-ball just might go into opposite side pocket on the break, resulting in the almighty win! :angel2:
Depending on the 8-ball rules you follow, the rules we used to follow at my neighborhood pool room was that it is a win if you make the 8-ball on the break.
So, naturally, everybody started trying to find that magic 8-ball break that would pocket the 8. :grin:
Here's the secret 8-ball break formula on a bar table:
Place the cueball 1 inch from the diamond behind the head string. This is the one and only diamond on the rail that is between the corner pocket and the head string.
Aim for the crack between the head ball (usually always the 1-ball if proper 8-ball racking etiquette is in practice).
Using low inside english, slam that 1-ball and the second ball in the rack simulataneously as hard as you can whack it. :grin-devilish:
If you have a good rack and hit your target correctly, the 8-ball just might go into opposite side pocket on the break, resulting in the almighty win! :angel2:
this is true and something that puzzled me for a few decades
A young Johnny Archer came into the little bar I was in, no doubt steered from Greenway like a handful of others during that time period. Perhaps I gave him a little gap the first time or tilted the rack a tiny bit, I didn't think so but I just gave a typical good rack without any special pains. The eight ball in any pocket was a win by our bar rules at the time and this was on seven foot bar tables. Johnny wasn't taking chances though, he called it in the opposite corner pocket. That was where it went. First time in my life I had somebody call the pocket for the eight on the break and make it.
My next rack was 103% perfect. Johnny broke from exactly where JAM described and called the eight in the opposite side pocket. The eight trickled in the pocket. We were playing by the game and Johnny, a stranger I had never heard of, had won two games in two shots. I racked again. "Eight ball in the side." Three games down on three breaks. I racked for the last time if the damned eight ball went in the side again. I'd had a lot to drink but not that much. I said something to the effect of I was gonna see this one more time since the whole bar was telling me it was time to quit. Maybe Johnny took a little off of the break that time thinking about me quitting because the eight ball that had been slow rolling in the side headed directly for the side pocket for the third time but stopped an inch or less from falling.
I tried every english I could think of breaking from that spot in the weeks that followed but never got that break to work. I didn't know exactly where to hit the rack and never put the right hit and english together by trial and error. Over twenty years later I was still scratching my head over that and asked the great trickshot artist Spitball Charlie if there was a way to make the eight every time on the break on a barbox. He didn't know of any.
Oh yeah, the rest of the story some great smelly jackasses get offended by, We played for another hour or so. That last eight on the break was the last ball Johnny made. At the time I absolutely owned the big cue ball and could make it do everything but sit up and beg. I ran that table out and maybe one from the snap. Never having heard of Johnny before I decided to let him shoot to keep him playing. I gave him a two rail kick to hit one of his balls with no pocket for it to go in. He kicked five or six rails zeeing end rail to end rail of the table and jawed his ball in the pocket, a ball I considered stone cold dead, not even a consideration. Still the most impressive shot I ever had played against me, other than maybe his breaks. After that I let Johnny shoot once or twice most games but when I say I had the cue ball locked up I mean Houdini couldn't get out of those traps. Those were the days of "accidental" safeties in bar rooms but after an hour or more Johnny was the one that had enough.
Johnny and a handful more were steered to that bar that was near my home. It was my first and last stop of most nights gambling when I gambled seven nights a week for over ten years. I knew those two tables and that lighting perfectly. Homefield advantage was huge with the lighting from the side on those tables and a dead spot in the rail on one. Few if any that came looking for me went away happy.
JAM, you have answered a question I have scratched my head about for over twenty years. THANK YOU! If I had an address I'd send flowers or candy.
Hu
Depending on the 8-ball rules you follow, the rules we used to follow at my neighborhood pool room was that it is a win if you make the 8-ball on the break.
So, naturally, everybody started trying to find that magic 8-ball break that would pocket the 8. :grin:
Here's the secret 8-ball break formula on a bar table:
Place the cueball 1 inch from the diamond behind the head string. This is the one and only diamond on the rail that is between the corner pocket and the head string.
Aim for the crack between the head ball (usually always the 1-ball if proper 8-ball racking etiquette is in practice).
Using low inside english, slam that 1-ball and the second ball in the rack simulataneously as hard as you can whack it. :grin-devilish:
If you have a good rack and hit your target correctly, the 8-ball just might go into opposite side pocket on the break, resulting in the almighty win! :angel2:
A young Johnny Archer came into the little bar I was in, no doubt steered from Greenway like a handful of others during that time period. Perhaps I gave him a little gap the first time or tilted the rack a tiny bit, I didn't think so but I just gave a typical good rack without any special pains. The eight ball in any pocket was a win by our bar rules at the time and this was on seven foot bar tables. Johnny wasn't taking chances though, he called it in the opposite corner pocket. That was where it went. First time in my life I had somebody call the pocket for the eight on the break and make it.
My next rack was 103% perfect. Johnny broke from exactly where JAM described and called the eight in the opposite side pocket. The eight trickled in the pocket. We were playing by the game and Johnny, a stranger I had never heard of, had won two games in two shots. I racked again. "Eight ball in the side." Three games down on three breaks. I racked for the last time if the damned eight ball went in the side again. I'd had a lot to drink but not that much. I said something to the effect of I was gonna see this one more time since the whole bar was telling me it was time to quit. Maybe Johnny took a little off of the break that time thinking about me quitting because the eight ball that had been slow rolling in the side headed directly for the side pocket for the third time but stopped an inch or less from falling.
I tried every english I could think of breaking from that spot in the weeks that followed but never got that break to work. I didn't know exactly where to hit the rack and never put the right hit and english together by trial and error. Over twenty years later I was still scratching my head over that and asked the great trickshot artist Spitball Charlie if there was a way to make the eight every time on the break on a barbox. He didn't know of any.
Oh yeah, the rest of the story some great smelly jackasses get offended by, We played for another hour or so. That last eight on the break was the last ball Johnny made. At the time I absolutely owned the big cue ball and could make it do everything but sit up and beg. I ran that table out and maybe one from the snap. Never having heard of Johnny before I decided to let him shoot to keep him playing. I gave him a two rail kick to hit one of his balls with no pocket for it to go in. He kicked five or six rails zeeing end rail to end rail of the table and jawed his ball in the pocket, a ball I considered stone cold dead, not even a consideration. Still the most impressive shot I ever had played against me, other than maybe his breaks. After that I let Johnny shoot once or twice most games but when I say I had the cue ball locked up I mean Houdini couldn't get out of those traps. Those were the days of "accidental" safeties in bar rooms but after an hour or more Johnny was the one that had enough.
Johnny and a handful more were steered to that bar that was near my home. It was my first and last stop of most nights gambling when I gambled seven nights a week for over ten years. I knew those two tables and that lighting perfectly. Homefield advantage was huge with the lighting from the side on those tables and a dead spot in the rail on one. Few if any that came looking for me went away happy.
JAM, you have answered a question I have scratched my head about for over twenty years. THANK YOU! If I had an address I'd send flowers or candy.
Hu
Annie Oakley was a real life crack shot...that's what she said about accuracy.
"Don't aim"....I take it to mean that when you 'line up' you REDUCE your
ability to play well.
Hand/eye coordination is like having faith in yourself...I've fired a 38 pistol
just once in my life, but I hit the target.My brother, who is a marksman,
tried to get me to use the policeman's stance but I shot from the hip.
I told him that if I look at the target, the gun won't be pointing somewhere
else.He smiled and said he guessed that's why I was the pool player in the
family.
I think the big secret is ...there is no big secret.
Every shot, you have to use everything you got.
Systems, in a desperate attempt for consistency, reduce your chances
of hitting 'dead stroke'.
The first 'secret' I heard as a kid was 'hit it where the light shines'.
So I asked ...What part of the cue-ball hits it where the light shines?
..never got a satisfactory answer.
I usually avoid these discussions 'cause it hard to talk about....
...you can only talk around them.
But I will say this.....you tend to get what you're looking for.....
..so if you're looking for dead stroke, you'll find it...once in a while.
just my opinion.of course
I B rolling....
OK, I'll put this one out. It came from Buddy Hall and Nick Varner. While it is the opposite of one of your gems, IT WORKS. I will try to explain why both may work and let the physics guys chop me up.
To cut thin shots, place tip one full tip above center and follow through straight with a firm stroke. It cuts the balls as accurately as anything I have ever seen.
I know some Filipinos who believe that "low" cuts the balls the best, however I believe that it is the SPEED of the cue ball controls how much friction is spent on the object ball, which in turn controls how much the object ball is cut. Sure, if you hit the object ball a little thinner because you used some inside English on purpose or by error, you will cut the object ball a little more just because of the cueball squirt.
I believe that for MOST people, using HIGH with a level stroke (faster speed cuts more but too fast of a speed and you may not follow straight) will give them a more consistent path for the cue ball, less throw, greater accuracy and no slide (which reduces speed on the cue ball, just rolling with high. ;-)
Each to his own but for me, high is more accurate. Different strokes for different folks.......
Ok, here's a couple, one a little more broad and one very specific. The pros all know this. ALWAYS keep your composure! Never let anything fluster you. Stay calm and you have a better chance to win. Sounds pretty simple but it isn't. Ever see what happens when a pool player gets excited? The good players stay calm even after making a great shot. Keep your emotions in check at all times and your results will be better.
Here's one you may not know. On a super thin cut shot, you can cut the ball more cleanly by cueing with low english (center ball, firm stroke). You'll make a cleaner hit and get zero skid. You can actually cut the ball thinner (and more accurately) using low english. TRUE! I'm talking super thin cut shots, where you need to hit the outside edge of the ball with a firm stroke. Try it, you'll like it! But remember, this is a secret!
OK, I'll put this one out. It came from Buddy Hall and Nick Varner. While it is the opposite of one of your gems, IT WORKS. I will try to explain why both may work and let the physics guys chop me up.
To cut thin shots, place tip one full tip above center and follow through straight with a firm stroke. It cuts the balls as accurately as anything I have ever seen.
I know some Filipinos who believe that "low" cuts the balls the best, however I believe that it is the SPEED of the cue ball controls how much friction is spent on the object ball, which in turn controls how much the object ball is cut. Sure, if you hit the object ball a little thinner because you used some inside English on purpose or by error, you will cut the object ball a little more just because of the cueball squirt.
I believe that for MOST people, using HIGH with a level stroke (faster speed cuts more but too fast of a speed and you may not follow straight) will give them a more consistent path for the cue ball, less throw, greater accuracy and no slide (which reduces speed on the cue ball, just rolling with high. ;-)
Each to his own but for me, high is more accurate. Different strokes for different folks.......
let me guess, pushout. You discovered that irish linen wrap... Sucks?!?
(sorry, couldn't resist that one.
j/k,
-sean
blasphemy
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Thank you for my new sig!
Great thread Joey, I also remembered you asking this awhile back. I clicked on the last page thinking it got dug up or something and to my surprise it was days old.
I'm also interested to know who the pro was that one of the people in here got lessons from. I respect the fact that he's honoring the pro in not sharing the secret that he paid for but at least give up the name.
Sean...you pressed the right buttons.....<...giggling...>
Well Terry, Brian asked me to stir the pot a bit, so I dropped a bunker buster. Perhaps that was a bit of overkill -- maybe a simple shaped charge was enough? Or perhaps an M-80 / cherry bomb? I'm kinda handy with those, especially with carcasses... I mean... deer carcasses.
Regardless, I think this is going to be fun, no matter what happens. Get a steak dinner and a couple pints of Guinness in me, and I'm a happy camper.
As for format, I'm thinking a multi-discipline format -- say, some 10-ball (the real call-pocket rules, not any of this T.E. crap), short-rack banks, and maybe some one pocket? We can either do teams, or scotch doubles. We have time, though, to determine the format.
I echo your thoughts on what it could morph into, years down the road.
Cool stuff -- I'm looking forward!
-Sean
To get me to play 'call-shot' 10-ball, you'd have to hold a gun to my head.
...And if you wanted to make it 'with the shoot again' option.....
I'd say "Pull the trigger!"
regards
pt..<..looking for a 'steak' horse
So true! I am in my 30's and play with a lot of older gentlemen. However, I have been playing the game for half of my life, and that sometimes means that I have more experience at pool (not life) that these guys. I will watch them make a mistake many times over and offer a simple way to correct it, but they say yeah yeah yeah or just blow me off. I only try once and then the blood is off my hands as they say.
As far as secrets go, I don't have any that can't be found in a book or on the web somewhere. Most of the technical stuff is out there somewhere. After all these years, Dr. Dave's Encycopedia of Pool Shots taught me a lot. He even offers "gems" that helped my game. I have no doubt that he pros have secrets that they keep to themselves, but I would be surprised if they would help anybody else. You gotta do what works for you, and only you can figure that out through practice and putting yourself in tough situations. Being in the fire forges a champion.
keith mccready, circa 2000ish: "practice."