Speed Control Tip

[chefjeff]

I like to shoot a rack or two of banks, helps me quickly figure out speed of table.

I do that just before a league match, especially.

I sometimes start hard then slowly bring it down to softer hits. But my brain is crazy, so....


Jeff Livingston

 

[Ralph Kramden]

No no, I didn't mean what "tip" is the best for speed control.

What I meant was "Advice" on how to have better speed control. Whats the best advice you have ever been given or heard of to have better speed control.

r/DCP

DrCue's... This isn't a speed control essay, but just IMO... read #10 and #14 here.... www.sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/pool-dogma

.

 

[iusedtoberich]

IMO, its better to work on a specific shot, instead of a separating out a component of your game such as "speed control".

What I mean, is set up a shot, and pick an exact spot for position. Pocketing of the ball, and landing on the position, is the "entire shot". Keep shooting it until you can do it well. Your brain will figure out how to guide your hands.

Then, vary the "entire shot" slightly to change the layout. Rinse, and repeat, and soon you will have learned tons of "entire shot" pictures, that you will recall when they come up in a game.

 

[Cornerman]

Fred,
I've had top - and I mean TOP - pros tell me you simply cant improve speed control unless you actually hit a ball.

r/DCP

What I learned from Randy, I most certainly was hitting balls.

Freddie

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

What I learned from Randy, I most certainly was hitting balls.

Freddie

No, no.....I meant pocketing a ball. You have to pocket a ball in order to work on speed control. Just rolling a ball down the table, in my opinion as well as the opinion of others whose thoughts I would certainly trust, wont really do any good.

r/DCP

p.s. Just so everyone knows, I am not talking about ENGLISH! when I say opinions of others.

 

[fastone371]

Fred,
I've had that. I didn't find that rolling balls down the table helped me in any way, shape, or form to develop speed control. You NEVER even hit a ball with their Mother Drill #5. I've had top - and I mean TOP - pros tell me you simply cant improve speed control unless you actually hit a ball.

r/DCP

Maybe you are not applying what you learned correctly. Before you can have precision ball control while hitting other balls you first need to "feel" how roll the cue ball up and down the table to the same spot consistently. Once you can roll to the cue ball to different spots consistently then its time to apply what you learned when you start hitting balls. If you cant complete Mother Drill #5 with one shot at every position you have not mastered speed control. Everything after that is simply making adjustments to speed after you get baselines on 1/8, 1/4, etc, hits.

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Yes...All mother drills are progressive, in distance and stroke speed. We encourage our students to develop a regimen practicing all 7 mother drills. There's 220 shots in the entire routine. It takes a while until you build your stroke process, and to understand and assimilate the drills. Many students start out needing 2-3 hours to complete the drills, but with time and effort you can get the routine down to 20-30 minutes of disciplined practice.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I was only shown five (5) Mother Drills the day you were here Scott.

Are there more nowadays? Or did you realize I wasn't worth the effort, wouldn't ever become a top level player, and didn't want to waste your time on me? If so I would understand. After 19+ years of trying and trying its amazing how pitiful I am most of the time.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

I was only shown five (5) Mother Drills the day you were here Scott.

Are there more nowadays? Or did you realize I wasn't worth the effort, wouldn't ever become a top level player, and didn't want to waste your time on me? If so I would understand. After 19+ years of trying and trying its amazing how pitiful I am most of the time.

There are 7 I think.
6 is stop shots
7 is draw shots
Via their course outline

 

[dr_dave]

You have to pocket a ball in order to work on speed control. Just rolling a ball down the table, in my opinion as well as the opinion of others whose thoughts I would certainly trust, wont really do any good.

I wouldn't say the up-and-down the table drill won't "do any good," but I mostly agree with you. I address this in the drills section of the speed control resource page. Here's an excerpt:

Many people suggest hitting the CB up and down the table different distances to practice speed control, but this is really good only for judging speed with hitting the CB up and down the table (e.g., with a lag shot or long kick shots). To master the speed control required in most game situations, it helps to specifically practice speed control pocketing balls with different types of shots and over a range of cut angles.

Target practice drills are very helpful for developing CB speed and position control. Drills F2-F5 and F8 in Exam I, and S5 in Exam II of the Billiard University (BU) Playing-Ability Exams are also very useful for practicing speed control with a wide variety of shot types.

Regards,
Dave

 

[vapoolplayer]

I wouldn't say the up-and-down the table drill won't "do any good," but I mostly agree with you. I address this in the drills section of the speed control resource page. Here's an excerpt:

Many people suggest hitting the CB up and down the table different distances to practice speed control, but this is really good only for judging speed with hitting the CB up and down the table (e.g., with a lag shot or long kick shots). To master the speed control required in most game situations, it helps to specifically practice speed control pocketing balls with different types of shots and over a range of cut angles.

Target practice drills are very helpful for developing CB speed and position control. Drills F2-F5 and F8 in Exam I, and S5 in Exam II of the Billiard University (BU) Playing-Ability Exams are also very useful for practicing speed control with a wide variety of shot types.

Regards,
Dave

What I did when I was playing daily, I developed what I considered my standard medium stroke. This stroke was what it took to lag the cue ball and stop it back on the rail. I developed this on the one or two tables I practiced the most on. I drilled it into my arm this was my standard speed. This allowed me to have a standard speed in which to judge other speeds on. Basically a “control” speed.

The other important use I had for this was when playing on different tables and different places. I would use my standard control lag stoke and was able to see how different the cloth and rail played on the new table. This would allow me to at least attempt an immediate adjustment.

Of course one needs to see how the other rails play, but this gives you a pretty big piece of information immediately.

While I feel like drills for learning speed should primarily involve pocketing balls, you can definitely benefit from cue ball only.

 

[vapoolplayer]

When I started this thread I was hoping for some witticisms and/or some profound comments from top players over the years. Got some people's thoughts and ideas but that's not exactly what I was hoping for. Its all appreciated though.

I'll keep checking this thread. In the meantime I am leaving for the football game. Temp about 40, light rain. Going to be miserable. And I've been sick with a head cold most of the week too. Pneumonia right around the corner.

r/DCP

So, you’re looking for some magic bullet.

Don’t you think if there was some short cut other than proper practice over time, it would show up in a google search?

 

[dr_dave]

What I did when I was playing daily, I developed what I considered my standard medium stroke. This stroke was what it took to lag the cue ball and stop it back on the rail. I developed this on the one or two tables I practiced the most on. I drilled it into my arm this was my standard speed. This allowed me to have a standard speed in which to judge other speeds on. Basically a “control” speed.

The other important use I had for this was when playing on different tables and different places. I would use my standard control lag stoke and was able to see how different the cloth and rail played on the new table. This would allow me to at least attempt an immediate adjustment.

Of course one needs to see how the other rails play, but this gives you a pretty big piece of information immediately.

While I feel like drills for learning speed should primarily involve pocketing balls, you can definitely benefit from cue ball only.

Good point. A lag shot is definitely a good test shot to get a feel for a table's cloth and cushion speed. Lag shots are also important to practice if you play in tournaments that use them to decide who breaks first.

Regards,
Dave

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

So, you’re looking for some magic bullet.

Don’t you think if there was some short cut other than proper practice over time, it would show up in a google search?

There's that term "magic bullet" again. I have heard it a bunch over the years. And I always give the same answer.

If I was looking for a magic bullet would I have taken lessons from Tom Rossman, Diana Minor, Mark Wilson, Scott Lee, Steve Boyer, and Nick Varner?

Would I have bought tons of books, tapes, videos on the game and watched them for hours? As I still do now, I might add.

Would I have watched and recorded all the ESPN shows over the years?

Would I have bought a lot of training aids? Such as Pocket Reducers, Tom Simpson's Stroke Trainer, Joe Tucker's gizmo for finding center ball that fits over the end of the cue, Buddy Hall's Cue Guide, Ghost Ball Aim Trainer, used the Coke bottle, etc, etc.

Would I have spent the $$$ for a brand new Gold Crown IV? Would I put new cloth on it about once a year? Which reminds me, about time again. Wonder how Chartreuse is going to look?

Would I have bought a whole lot of different cues over the years?

Would I have put in thousands and thousands of hours at the table over the last 19+ years?

In short, if anybody thinks I am looking for that Magic Bullet you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

r/DCP

 

[vapoolplayer]

There's that term "magic bullet" again. I have heard it a bunch over the years. And I always give the same answer.

If I was looking for a magic bullet would I have taken lessons from Tom Rossman, Diana Minor, Mark Wilson, Scott Lee, Steve Boyer, and Nick Varner?

Would I have bought tons of books, tapes, videos on the game and watched them for hours? As I still do now, I might add.

Would I have watched and recorded all the ESPN shows over the years?

Would I have bought a lot of training aids? Such as Pocket Reducers, Tom Simpson's Stroke Trainer, Joe Tucker's gizmo for finding center ball that fits over the end of the cue, Buddy Hall's Cue Guide, Ghost Ball Aim Trainer, used the Coke bottle, etc, etc.

Would I have spent the $$$ for a brand new Gold Crown IV? Would I put new cloth on it about once a year? Which reminds me, about time again. Wonder how Chartreuse is going to look?

Would I have bought a whole lot of different cues over the years?

Would I have put in thousands and thousands of hours at the table over the last 19+ years?

In short, if anybody thinks I am looking for that Magic Bullet you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

r/DCP

You’re right.....everyone else is wrong. Let us know how the next 19 years of looking go.


(FYI, all that stuff you just mentioned is looking for the magic bullet. Guys are running out with cuetecs and playing outside in the Phillipines)

 

[Cornerman]

No, no.....I meant pocketing a ball. You have to pocket a ball in order to work on speed control. Just rolling a ball down the table, in my opinion as well as the opinion of others whose thoughts I would certainly trust, wont really do any good.

r/DCP

p.s. Just so everyone knows, I am not talking about ENGLISH! when I say opinions of others.

You just shut the door on anyone helping you. I'm sure you won't mind.

 

[vapoolplayer]

You just shut the door on anyone helping you. I'm sure you won't mind.

Ask question.....gets answers.....tells everyone he tried all that and they don’t know what they are talking about. Makes sense to me.

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Ok Cornerman and VAPoolplayer,

Just stay out of this thread from now on, ok? You two aren't going to contribute anything positive, you're just going to stir up crap. It happens to most threads on this Forum, people twist stuff around to start crap and away it goes.

So please, just stay out of this thread from now on.

 

[Electech]

Great glad we are not bringing science into this!!! ya I follow through longer on finesse shots. doubt it does anything other than help me stay down.....

Perhaps i am not grasping the concept of what you say, but it does not take science to prove what the cue does after contact with cue ball has no influence on the struck ball's behavior.

Okay ya got me whats an SOP

Electech...My tip finishes the same distance past the CB regardless of what speed i strike the CB with...from a lag to a break, it is the same. This is true for all SOP shots, but not true with finesse speeds (less than a lag).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Electech <- dumb old redneck

 

[vapoolplayer]

When I started this thread I was hoping for some witticisms and/or some profound comments from top players over the years. Got some people's thoughts and ideas but that's not exactly what I was hoping for. Its all appreciated though.

I'll keep checking this thread. In the meantime I am leaving for the football game. Temp about 40, light rain. Going to be miserable. And I've been sick with a head cold most of the week too. Pneumonia right around the corner.

r/DCP

Actually, I think I’ll keep posting this quote. Just because you say it’s “appreciated” doesn’t mean it really is. Same as saying “no offense but,” followed by something offensive. You basically spit in the face of anyone giving advice with that post.

Both of us, along with several others gave you proper advice and you pulled the same stuff you were pulling when I was here before. What it comes down to is you have already been given this advise time and time again. You either aren’t practicing properly or you don’t possess the ability to figure it out.

Again, you’re obviously right, and the vast majority of the people on here are wrong.

 

[bbb]

There's that term "magic bullet" again. I have heard it a bunch over the years. And I always give the same answer.

If I was looking for a magic bullet would I have taken lessons from Tom Rossman, Diana Minor, Mark Wilson, Scott Lee, Steve Boyer, and Nick Varner?

Would I have bought tons of books, tapes, videos on the game and watched them for hours? As I still do now, I might add.

Would I have watched and recorded all the ESPN shows over the years?

Would I have bought a lot of training aids? Such as Pocket Reducers, Tom Simpson's Stroke Trainer, Joe Tucker's gizmo for finding center ball that fits over the end of the cue, Buddy Hall's Cue Guide, Ghost Ball Aim Trainer, used the Coke bottle, etc, etc.

Would I have spent the $$$ for a brand new Gold Crown IV? Would I put new cloth on it about once a year? Which reminds me, about time again. Wonder how Chartreuse is going to look?

Would I have bought a whole lot of different cues over the years?

Would I have put in thousands and thousands of hours at the table over the last 19+ years?

In short, if anybody thinks I am looking for that Magic Bullet you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

r/DCP

after 19 years and all the time and money you have invested
do you really think there is something out there that you havent been told /saw before??
maybe its time to accept you just dont have " IT "
and find another hobby?
just sayin