True Workings of Pivot-style Aiming

[Low500]

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[Low500]

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[paultex]

Brian's way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzk9Gh5HlA


The objective way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDOnLiDh-dg&list=UUW8lTFYIYGN2AjHKN23M-RQ&index=87

The end result

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t-3BGNaTv0&list=UUW8lTFYIYGN2AjHKN23M-RQ&index=75

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'll be there too...at the SBE
I'll go in halves with you at that game.
Just be sure we don't get ambushed by some real hitter who is in here in disguise.
Get him to commit....then we can hunt him down at the expo and maybe pick off some easy winnings. I like to underwrite when I think I got the best of it.
:thumbup:

I have a real hitter who wouldn't be the least bit hesitant to play his hitter. He's quite busy all throughout the SBE but right after it's over I'm sure he'll accommodate the fella. That is if the fella doesn't go running out of the venue faster than Usain Bolt once he finds out.

 

[nobcitypool]

BC21 I thought you were going to back off of CTE and pivot based aiming. I'll concede you understand fractional aiming although admittedly I don't care. It is painfully obvious you don't understand these systems at all. I think you're smart enough but too close minded. Regardless, all your posts are autumnal and deter from the spirit of the related threads.

While it often doesn't seem so, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming your posts aren't done due to an ulterior motive. Your continued efforts however may confirm that as a given. You aren't at Stan Shuffett's level and never will be. That isn't something you should feel ashamed of, only a handful come close. Deal with it and quit embarrassing yourself.

Spider is a very competent professional smart enough to realize there's no meaningful career in pool. However, it is a passionate hobby for him and he has been heavily exposed to some of the great minds and players in the game. You'd likely benefit from trying to learn from him versus always arguing with him.

 

[BC21]

The thick and thin is not judgement. It's objectively laid out by the system.
The tweak as Stan describes is not to make the shot look right. You've been told this. He's tweaking to the exact aiming lines that are described in the system. He's not tweaking away from CCB but instead tweaking to the exact CCB. You are way out of context concerning the video that Stan describes his tweaking in.

Stan specifically says you make it look right. That final ccb might not feel like it looks right, so you tweak it the same same way you would tweak any straight in shot.
His exact words are very close to that. There is no out of context there.

 

[BC21]

I also have a secret weapon of decisive victory and it's fair I warn you. Don't be Stalin and walk away as if I'm bluffing.

Vulcans never bluff.

It's so powerful a weapon, I just forgot it as I type this urgent comuni'cae to you sir but I'll remember it if you......push....................THE button.

Think it over and admit feel is a superstition and I'll reward you.

Sell out your convictions, it's the right thing to do when your wrong.

Lol.....I FEEL you are not a sheep. I am not a sheep either.

 

[BC21]

Address the PUTTING scenario from 6-9'. It's most like pool.

Let's think about a 9' putt, the same length as a pool table. We'll also take out some of the variables of a putt such as slope and grain of the grass.

IOW, like a pool table we're looking at a perfectly straight putt of 9'. The speed of the putt is somewhere between 10-12' on the stimpmeter. We could make it anywhere in between 1' to 9' in distance, doesn't matter.

Does visual AIM come into play more or does how hard you strike the ball by feel the primary factor? Remember, this isn't a 75' putt, it's 9'. We can also make it 6' which is more similar to a shot on the pool table.

Well, I'm not a scratch golfer. Best is 79. Typically shoot between 84 and 90. I am a 2-putter though, which keeps me from jumping into the high 90s. Not bad considering I play maybe 5 or 6 rounds of golf each year. I play with scratch golfers, so that helps. I've learned to use trees and signs and distant structures and blades of grass to determine my aim line in the fairway. I use any slight differences in grass color or a spec in the green to line up a put. And whether I'm 190yds out with a 4-iron or 6ft from the pin with my putter, I have a gut feeling if what I'm about to do is going to work out like I want or not. If all feels good and correct and lined up, then I swing away. If the wind blows a little stronger something within me says WAIT! Then I might change my aim line a little according to what I FEEL looks right for the circumstances.

I do the same thing in pool. So do you. You just don't admit it because you enjoy being confrontational and keeping the flames of an old dead war alive. Move on.

 

[BC21]

BC21 I thought you were going to back off of CTE and pivot based aiming. I'll concede you understand fractional aiming although admittedly I don't care. It is painfully obvious you don't understand these systems at all. I think you're smart enough but too close minded. Regardless, all your posts are autumnal and deter from the spirit of the related threads.

While it often doesn't seem so, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming your posts aren't done due to an ulterior motive. Your continued efforts however may confirm that as a given. You aren't at Stan Shuffett's level and never will be. That isn't something you should feel ashamed of, only a handful come close. Deal with it and quit embarrassing yourself.

Spider is a very competent professional smart enough to realize there's no meaningful career in pool. However, it is a passionate hobby for him and he has been heavily exposed to some of the great minds and players in the game. You'd likely benefit from trying to learn from him versus always arguing with him.

Spider polutes many threads with his 20-yr obsession of aiming wars. It gets old. He, not me, dragged CTE and my book into this thread. He can't help himself, just can't let go of the past, always jumps on that beat up wagon.

I started this thread with some very good information about the angle effects of manual pivot aiming. It's very accurate on paper and can be proven on the table. Instead of taking this information and possibly figuring some things out, Spider has chosen to be negative and nonconstructive because he thinks it's some attack on CTE or his method of aiming. It's a common reaction for him and a couple of others -- any time someone wants to discuss or offer up anything about aiming that doesn't fit with what they think, they go into attack mode.

I've been very tolerant by not reporting derogatory posts, but it really does get old. I don't care one bit about Stan and Hal and the 20-yr war about mysterious phenomena....so they can drop that old excuse already. What I show in this thread, before Spider came crashing in like the know-it-all of aiming, is exactly how and why object balls go where they go when incorporating a pivot process. Instead of becoming defensive, maybe a little creative thinking would've been a more reasonable option. I know there are creative people here, and I'm sure they found a little something in the thread before it was hijacked.

 

[Neil]

Spider polutes many threads with his 20-yr obsession of aiming wars. It gets old. He, not me, dragged CTE and my book into this thread. He can't help himself, just can't let go of the past, always jumps on that beat up wagon.

I started this thread with some very good information about the angle effects of manual pivot aiming. It's very accurate on paper and can be proven on the table. Instead of taking this information and possibly figuring some things out, Spider has chosen to be negative and nonconstructive because he thinks it's some attack on CTE or his method of aiming. It's a common reaction for him and a couple of others -- any time someone wants to discuss or offer up anything about aiming that doesn't fit with what they think, they go into attack mode.

I've been very tolerant by not reporting derogatory posts, but it really does get old. I don't care one bit about Stan and Hal and the 20-yr war about mysterious phenomena....so they can drop that old excuse already. What I show in this thread, before Spider came crashing in like the know-it-all of aiming, is exactly how and why object balls go where they go when incorporating a pivot process. Instead of becoming defensive, maybe a little creative thinking would've been a more reasonable option. I know there are creative people here, and I'm sure they found a little something in the thread before it was hijacked.

Baloney. You first attacked CTE in post #51. Before that, you both were talking about your book. It's real simple, if you don't want people to call you out on your attacks, just stop making them.

 

[cookie man]

Stan specifically says you make it look right. That final ccb might not feel like it looks right, so you tweak it the same same way you would tweak any straight in shot.
His exact words are very close to that. There is no out of context there.

Wrong again.

 

[BC21]

Baloney. You first attacked CTE in post #51. Before that, you both were talking about your book. It's real simple, if you don't want people to call you out on your attacks, just stop making them.

Selective reading again. Spider first brought up my book, not me. It was #29. Prior to that he was hammering OVERCUT OVERCUT OVERCUT because he thinks any thinner cut a shot is an overcut. Ridiculous thing to argue about, but par for the course -- anything to pull the thread into the 20yr CTE flame wars. Then in post 29 he drags my book into the thread and the drama shifts into another off-track gear.

And I did not "attack" CTE in post 51. There is nothing negative nothing or bashing toward cte in that post. But I understand how this works -- Spider drags the thread into the gutter, and you and cookie come in with typical gang mentality kicking and jabbing.

This thread is about pivoting effects. It's not about CTE or shishkabob or Hal or Stan or Poolology or feel, yet Spider has brought all of this into the thread with his in-your-face style, and now you and cookie want to join in. No thank you. You should all be constructive or disappear.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Well, I'm not a scratch golfer. Best is 79. Typically shoot between 84 and 90. I am a 2-putter though, which keeps me from jumping into the high 90s. Not bad considering I play maybe 5 or 6 rounds of golf each year.

5 or 6 rounds a year means you have never put enough time in the game to study technique and how to AIM whether it's a full shot, half shot, pitches or chips, and putting. I posted multiple links yesterday on all of it with pro instructors and players giving specific instructions on the importance of AIMING and HOW TO AIM.

I play with scratch golfers, so that helps.

They must love playing with a 90 shooting hack who's all over the course holding them up.

I play with a scratch golfer also, my brother. He gives lessons, plays in some local tournaments, makes specialty drivers for long drive competitions, and has been a qualifier to advance to the next step that puts a person into the World Long Drive Competition shown on TV. His first name is Marc which you can google to see his videos on youtube.

I've learned to use trees and signs and distant structures and blades of grass to determine my aim line in the fairway.

Those video links I posted show the importance and method of how to aim your feet, body, and head along with the club face to aim. There's a LOT of AIMING going on at the professional level.

I use any slight differences in grass color or a spec in the green to line up a put.

What about AIMING the putter FACE itself dead to the hole? What about AIMING the line typically on the top or back of putter directly to the hole? What about putting a line around the circumference of the ball to align and AIM it directly to the hole. How about aligning your feet to be AIMED at the hole. And very critical is to have the EYE LINE for both eyes AIMED straight along the line of the putt and not crooked to the outside or inside?

And whether I'm 190yds out with a 4-iron or 6ft from the pin with my putter, I have a gut feeling if what I'm about to do is going to work out like I want or not. If all feels good and correct and lined up, then I swing away.

With the scores you typically shoot, it's quite apparent THAT doesn't work out too well or very often. Your gut feeling is doing exactly what it should be doing - NOTHING.

If the wind blows a little stronger something within me says WAIT! Then I might change my aim line a little according to what I FEEL looks right for the circumstances.

It's not what you feel, it's what is OBVIOUS if the wind is suddenly gusting. Now you are admitting to an AIM LINE.

I do the same thing in pool. So do you.

There's no wind blowing in a pool room other than if I or someone else cuts a monster size fart. Then I will step away to laugh like hell and get back to doing what I planned on doing.

Unlike you, I'm very decisive about what I'm doing with AIMING and making a shot.
I do step away occasionally because I might see a better route to move the CB around the table to make the next shot and then be better set for the next two or three.

You just don't admit it because you enjoy being confrontational and keeping the flames of an old dead war alive. Move on.

I just told you above what I do and why. It's NOT what you do or think it is.

I'll move on alright after being finished with your outrageous claims about your fractional aiming system. You did give your permission to post it after I asked.

You can take your own advice and move on because I sure don't see you shutting your big mouth about something you only have half assed knowledge about, CTE.

STFU once and for all and we might be going off into a better direction. Bring it up one more time and YOU'LL be the one perpetuating this entire thing.

You can also count on it going on until you eloquently and thoroughly verbalize the FEEL AIMING SYSTEM THAT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOUR OWN POOLOLOGY METHOD WHICH YOU ONLY USE FROM TIME TO TIME.

While you're at it, dissect ALL the FEEL AIMING SYSTEMS THAT OTHERS USE in an articulate fashion.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Selective reading again. Spider first brought up my book, not me. It was #29. Prior to that he was hammering OVERCUT OVERCUT OVERCUT because he thinks any thinner cut a shot is an overcut. Ridiculous thing to argue about, but par for the course -- anything to pull the thread into the 20yr CTE flame wars. Then in post 29 he drags my book into the thread and the drama shifts into another off-track gear.

And I did not "attack" CTE in post 51. There is nothing negative nothing or bashing toward cte in that post. But I understand how this works -- Spider drags the thread into the gutter, and you and cookie come in with typical gang mentality kicking and jabbing.

This thread is about pivoting effects. It's not about CTE or shishkabob or Hal or Stan or Poolology or feel, yet Spider has brought all of this into the thread with his in-your-face style, and now you and cookie want to join in. No thank you. You should all be constructive or disappear.

I'm kind of getting the impression you don't like me. Do you lay awake in bed unable to sleep at night because it's all in your head?

YOU were the one who said you stand behind everything you have printed on your book. I pointed it out WITH YOUR PERMISSION and even suggested I would delete my first post if you wished.

You said NO, no problem. Is your selective memory kicking in and now going to cause a crying attack and nervous breakdown? GROW UP.

 

[BC21]

Wrong again.

I'm 50 years old, and there are three or our people here in this forum, some younger and some older, that make me feel like I'm talking to teenagers that refuse to accept reality because they are living in their own little bubble where any real-life information is ignored.

https://youtu.be/6Dgsn2xaif0?t=162s

Once again, I didn't bring cte or my book into this thread. You can thank Spider for doing that. You guys are like a wolf pack -- one attacks, the others smell the action and come running. Lol

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'm 50 years old, and there are three or our people here in this forum, some younger and some older, that make me feel like I'm talking to teenagers that refuse to accept reality

WHAT reality, YOURS? Did you ever stop to think you don't act like a 50 year old but instead like a TEENAGE KNOW-IT-ALL? Well I have some earth shattering news to burst your bubble, YOU DO.

The last thing I would want to do or have happen is to think and live in the world of BRIAN CRIST.

because they are living in their own little bubble where any real-life information is ignored.

You are one self-centered ego maniac who has a grasp on everything out there in life.

Once again, I didn't bring cte or my book into this thread. You can thank Spider for doing that. You guys are like a wolf pack -- one attacks, the others smell the action and come running. Lol

YOU gave me permission which I asked if it should be deleted or to go forward.

Are you saying a wolf pack does NOT EXIST coming from the other side, your side and never existed for 20 years?

You came into this forum almost one year ago to announce your creation of a fractional aiming system. THAT'S A GOOD THING!

However, as far as the rest of it goes with your incessant hammering of CTE, by bringing it up and talking about it MORE than your own creation and especially the one you choose to use which CAN'T BE EXPLAINED, THIS FORUM WOULD BE FAR BETTER OFF WITHOUT YOU THAN WITH YOU OR AT LEAST WITH ALL THE NEGATIVE AGITATING POSTS YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE IN MACHINE GUN FASHION.

GO PRACTICE YOUR GUITAR. How about learning to play the WASHBOARD, JEW'S HARP, BONGO DRUMS. SPOONS to keep yourself occupied?

 

[Neil]

I'm 50 years old, and there are three or our people here in this forum, some younger and some older, that make me feel like I'm talking to teenagers that refuse to accept reality because they are living in their own little bubble where any real-life information is ignored.

https://youtu.be/6Dgsn2xaif0?t=162s

Once again, I didn't bring cte or my book into this thread. You can thank Spider for doing that. You guys are like a wolf pack -- one attacks, the others smell the action and come running. Lol

Brian, it's posts like this one above that make us wonder if you are just trolling the forum, or if you are actually serious.

If you are being serious, then it has already been shown to you that you are the one living in your own little world, and not reality. How can you possibly blame spidey for bringing up your book when he asked your permission to do so and you gave it to him? And, I already showed you where you brought up CTE first.

How is it that you think that you can state any nonsense and flat out lies on here and then claim you are being attacked when you get called out on them?

If you don't like the way things are going, then try taking an honest look at what you have done to cause that. Remember, when you think we are attacking, we are actually responding to what YOU said. Think about that.

 

[BC21]

I'm kind of getting the impression you don't like me. Do you lay awake in bed unable to sleep at night because it's all in your head?

YOU were the one who said you stand behind everything you have printed on your book. I pointed it out WITH YOUR PERMISSION and even suggested I would delete my first post if you wished.

You said NO, no problem. Is your selective memory kicking in and now going to cause a crying attack and nervous breakdown? GROW UP.

Golf: I play in the mid to high 80's because I tend to blow up on 2 or 3 holes, shooting a 7 on a par 3 or maybe a 9 on a par 5. Those scores are due to penalties and poor swings -- dropping a ball that's out of play, topping a ball from the faraway and turning a 200yd shot into a 20yd dribble, etc... I play quick and loose and only take practice swings on chip shots where FEEL of speed and distance is required. I rarely lose a ball and have played several rounds with the same ball, which I'm sort of proud of for some reason, and think I deserve a trophy for it. :smile: Being a consistent 2-putter...yes, I line the putter face up appropriately to send the ball down the aim line. It's common sense, like shooting pool -- align the cue and send the cb down a desired aim line. I don't need to line the text up or draw a vertical line on the ball and I do just fine.

One guy I play with is a golf coach at a local college. He just won some sort of WV coach of the year, and he's also a top state-ranked tennis player and one of the best pool players in the tri-state area. He gets on me about needing to play more golf, as he knows no one else that plays half a dozen times per year and consistently hits in the 80's. I paid for one golf lesson from a guy named Dave Estep, from Arizona I believe. He said all I need to do to break into the 70's is "play more." But I just can't find the time for it. It's fun when I do play, except for the penalty strokes and a few top shots, but I'm content.

And yes I gave you permission to quote my book AFTER you already did. But that doesnt change the fact that for some reason you felt compelled to bring up my book, not me, and as usually you have muddied up another thread because of harbored emotions over a 20yr obsession with Hal Houle and the bashing he and Stan have endured over the years.

I honestly think if I met you in person we'd get along just fine. But there's a flame war history here on AZ that you just have to perpetuate everytime you get a chance, and that always gets us going in this needless back and forth mess. But I'm out. You can have this thread now that it's all about whatever you want it to be about.

 

[BC21]

Brian, it's posts like this one above that make us wonder if you are just trolling the forum, or if you are actually serious.

If you are being serious, then it has already been shown to you that you are the one living in your own little world, and not reality. How can you possibly blame spidey for bringing up your book when he asked your permission to do so and you gave it to him? And, I already showed you where you brought up CTE first.

How is it that you think that you can state any nonsense and flat out lies on here and then claim you are being attacked when you get called out on them?

If you don't like the way things are going, then try taking an honest look at what you have done to cause that. Remember, when you think we are attacking, we are actually responding to what YOU said. Think about that.

Once again, Neil, you are making things up. CTE was brought into this thread by Spidey bringing up Stan Shuffett and the "OVERCUT". He even posted links. The truth doesn't fit into your narrative, but you can just keep on lying and making stuff up. The thread has gone to the wolves and I'm out.

It's amazing how adamant you guys can be that you are 100% correct when the facts plainly show otherwise. There is no reasonable debate with such characters because you all ready know everything and refuse to believe that someone else might actually know some things also. I'm always learning new things because I realize there are other people out there that know things I don't know. Try it some time.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Golf: I play in the mid to high 80's because I tend to blow up on 2 or 3 holes, shooting a 7 on a par 3 or maybe a 9 on a par 5. Those scores are due to penalties and poor swings -- dropping a ball that's out of play, topping a ball from the faraway and turning a 200yd shot into a 20yd dribble, etc

Based on that, you're a HACKER. Unfortunately, I have to put myself in the same category....

I play quick and loose and only take practice swings on chip shots where FEEL of speed and distance is required.

Of course FEEL is involved in chip shots as well as putts. Everybody takes practice swings to try obtaining FEEL for it including pros. But there's also AIMING. Did you know there's a way to calculate which club to use for a chip built on a mathematical formula based on the distance from the ball to the hole and the distance from the ball to the landing zone on the green for the amount of ROLL each club has been determined to produce?

I rarely lose a ball and have played several rounds with the same ball, which I'm sort of proud of for some reason, and think I deserve a trophy for it. :smile: Being a consistent 2-putter...yes, I line the putter face up appropriately to send the ball down the aim line. It's common sense, like shooting pool -- align the cue and send the cb down a desired aim line. I don't need to line the text up or draw a vertical line on the ball and I do just fine.

Maybe, but also maybe not as good as you would do if you did.
The PROS on the PGA Tour do it. I guess they know something you don't.

One guy I play with is a golf coach at a local college. He just won some sort of WV coach of the year, and he's also a top state-ranked tennis player and one of the best pool players in the tri-state area. He gets on me about needing to play more golf, as he knows no one else that plays half a dozen times per year and consistently hits in the 80's. I paid for one golf lesson from a guy named Dave Estep, from Arizona I believe. He said all I need to do to break into the 70's is "play more." But I just can't find the time for it. It's fun when I do play, except for the penalty strokes and a few top shots, but I'm content.

I totally understand the time problem. I don't either as well as having a few back surgeries.

And yes I gave you permission to quote my book AFTER you already did. But that doesnt change the fact that for some reason you felt compelled to bring up my book, not me, and as usually you have muddied up another thread because of harbored emotions over a 20yr obsession with Hal Houle and the bashing he and Stan have endured over the years.

OH, here we go again. Are YOU going to stop bringing up CTE or ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO PUT A MUZZLE ON IT?

I honestly think if I met you in person we'd get along just fine. But there's a flame war history here on AZ that you just have to perpetuate everytime you get a chance, and that always gets us going in this needless back and forth mess. But I'm out. You can have this thread now that it's all about whatever you want it to be about.

I don't believe you're OUT! If you ARE OUT, watch how quiet this thread, all threads, and all future threads are now and in the future. The AZ Aiming Forum will turn into a morgue.

UNLESS, some other TROLL comes bouncing out of the woodwork that we have to be REACTIVE to.

Adios and have a nice respite. I guarantee we will as a result of it.