Turning Stone - rip off
- Thread starter cleary
- Start date
You should profit off of legitimate items. Not because you have a rule that states you don't get your money back and the incoming player also has to pay.
So if I sign up to play in this event, my brother dies a day before the event, it's ok cause the TD needs to profit --- which to you isn't a bad thing that he is profiting in this way.
Beyond all of this - people always want to compare pool to golf. I have a friend that is a pro golfer (qualified and played in last 3 US Opens). There is only entry fees for the qualifier events for golf. (Other events if you are invited, there is no entry fee).
Sooooo.......
For the web.com tour, if you pull out of the qualifier event 72 hours before your money is refunded and your spot is filled by another player.
For the US Open qualifier, you get a refund minus a $20 fee. And there's a lil bit more paperwork involved to play in a US Open qualifier.
https://tnpga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf...&hagenda=793d3325-0ad2-45c4-8647-da0cc9a5d7ba
Keep on pool world. You will continue to get no where and then sit back and complain why isn't it as big as say golf and wonder why.
Sooooo.......
For the web.com tour, if you pull out of the qualifier event 72 hours before your money is refunded and your spot is filled by another player.
For the US Open qualifier, you get a refund minus a $20 fee. And there's a lil bit more paperwork involved to play in a US Open qualifier.
https://tnpga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf...&hagenda=793d3325-0ad2-45c4-8647-da0cc9a5d7ba
Keep on pool world. You will continue to get no where and then sit back and complain why isn't it as big as say golf and wonder why.
So, you refuse your money back from Hotels, airlines, etc. etc. man, that's pretty nice of you, I'll give you that
I'm out $1,000 in airfare and hotel fees and the only reason I went was to see you play.
Where's my refund?
Yes, if a player cancels then it should be the next person on the waiting list to take their spot, and not a buddy of theirs that isn't even on the list. But the player that cancels should still be issued a refund provided they cancel within a reasonable timeframe.
That should be accounted for in his original model. Having to rely on or use money from player cancellations is simply poor planning.
I could book a flight today to go to NY 9 months from now. Cancel it 2 months from now, and at most have to pay a small processing fee. But it's not like the flight company would keep all of my money, and say, "Oh sorry, we're going to put that money towards fuel and peanuts."
I've got a great idea :idea2:. All of you posters who think the Turning Stone is a rip off, just don't ever play there. Let the 128 players who twice a year enter enjoy themselves! Don't think MZ gives a rip about what you think of his event or the rules he runs the event by! Thanks.
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn --
60,000 people play in the APA.
Did you see the Facebook threads on the BCAPL and people backing out cause of the house rake?
People get involved in Calcuttas that rake 10%
I could go on and on.
Basically the pool world ain't that smart. And that's why it has been fvcked for decades.
Supply and Demand. He has more demand then spots. If everyday a restaurant sold out EVERY HAMBURGER what should the manager do? Raise prices. When you are not selling a physical product (ie something in a box) it's very unlikely you refund money (Airlines, Hotel rooms etc). MZ and Turning Stone event is one of the few events we should have zero issues with. Lets Review:
1. Free High Quality Stream
2. Players always get paid (I believe on the spot)
3. Tourney always runs like a pro event with no B.S. period.
4. Great spectator seating (not some pool room with limited seating and site lines)
5. MZ is well known fair and reputable industry leader
Checks all my boxes. The US Open (9 ball) and other events could learn from this. No silly long winded speeches, anthems, buglers etc. Just pool sir.
1. Free High Quality Stream
2. Players always get paid (I believe on the spot)
3. Tourney always runs like a pro event with no B.S. period.
4. Great spectator seating (not some pool room with limited seating and site lines)
5. MZ is well known fair and reputable industry leader
Checks all my boxes. The US Open (9 ball) and other events could learn from this. No silly long winded speeches, anthems, buglers etc. Just pool sir.
Thanks for sharing another side of the no-refund policy. After reading this, I can see Zuglan's side, and I kind of like it
I agree. It makes more sense to me now.
I don't like the no-refund policy, but I understand the reasoning why now much better.
Thanks, Cardigan Kid, for sharing.
As far as making money, I know personally that pool tournaments are not a money-making venture. Mike does have to produce a fair amount of players in order for Turning Stone to keep adding money and offering the venue for free, and moving all those Diamond tables and equipment up there is not cheap.
I remember when we attended the Trump 10-Ball Challenge at the Trump Marina Casino, they charged a gate fee for spectators, including wives and stakehorses of the players. I can't remember what it was, but it was hefty. There was a brutal snow blizzard the day of the tournament, and they had to postpone they tournament for a day to allow the players to get there. More expenses to the players. The promoters, Gene Hooker, his son, and somebody else, lost big time promoting this event. It was a great facility, but even with the gate fees, it was a losing endeavor for the promoter.
The last day of the tournament, we had no room. The place was booked up. We scrambled to find a room, and we ended up staying in a dump down the street.
Turning Stone Casino is luxurious. Everything is under one roof, which is really nice.
Having spoken to Mike Zuglan in the past, I do know running this Joss Tour is not huge money-making venture for him. He does it out of his passion for pool. It is the longest-running regional tour in the nation. When the players tried to strong-arm him to give out byes and seeds to the so-called professional tour run by, I think, Johnny Archer, et al., he refused to change his rules. I love that about Mike. All players are treated equal. In fact, that is the reason for the genesis for the Joss Tour. Mike, a professional player himself, was sick of seeing other players treated with favoritism at events. He decided to run his own tournaments and make them fair, and the rest is history.
Now that I know the reasoning behind the no-refund policy, I do understand.
If you haven't been to the Turning Stone and attended one of these events, you're missing out. It is a beautiful environment for pool. My other half loves this place and Mike Zuglan's Joss Tour. We have some fond memories with the Joss Tour, and the suits at Turning Stone know McCready. He makes his presence known on the crap tables, and everything really is funny when you're winning big money.
Crap Table Committee that pooled their money together and backed Keith throwing the dice. Each put up $100. The $15,000 split between five of us was quite sweet.
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******Agreed 100%! ******
I really liked what Mike Z. did with Mike D. match last year when they were picking apart each others rack, Well done Mike Z. , I liked and respected you for that! Each player was told they will pay the judge 50 bucks for racking with no rack inspection. What he racks is what you get, I loved it!
Why not just use the money that doesn't get refunded to pay for neutral rackers.
Here's my take on all this and I will preface it by saying I have a lot of respect for Mike Zuglan. To run a successful tour like he has for so many years is an incredible thing in the pool world. That said, if it is known beforehand that there are NO refunds then it is incumbent on the player to make a decision ahead of time if he wants to take a chance by entering early. As far as I'm concerned if Mike makes it known in advance about the no refund policy then he has covered his bases. This should be stated somewhere in the advertising or promotional material for the tournament. To not do so would be wrong IMO.
trifectasss
Registered
This brings up a good point. What keeps no-shows from doing this? Shouldn't there be some incentive for them to notify in advance they aren't showing up? Like a 50 percent return? This then helps give people on the waiting list a chance to make plans. I'm going to assume there's a sign in requirement in case someone pays and doesn't cancel nor show. Doesn't that encourage people who paid far in advance to wait until the last minute before deciding? At least having some declining return based on when cancelled will give the people on waiting list a better chance of booking flights and rooms as well as planning time away from home or job.
You can refer back my statement what I would do. But; in the " real world " , a contract is a contract and if you agree to it and it doesn't work out for you well then tough luck. Just the way it is.
When I sell a car, boat, motorcycle or whatever and take a deposit ( which I rarely do anymore ) I make it very clear several times and put it in the paperwork that the deposit is totally NON REFUNDABLE and they have x # of days to pay balance. It's that simple. Do you own a house ? What about earnest money? This all is not uncommon at all and we're only talking couple hundred bucks in this case.
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That was the exact point of the thread. I'm not going to play in that event. Though, hopefully the word has spread to some who have thought about playing this event and know that it's shady.
From one of the earlier posts in this thread, it seems that people come to the player's meeting anticipating no-shows. When Zuglan takes attendance at the meeting, and if you aren't there, he will fill your spot with these people waiting on standby.
The more I think about this, I absolutely love it now. Pool is FULL of crybabies, and people looking to hustle the system. I bet Zuglan came up with this no-refund policy because hustlers were trying to jerk him around years ago. He could have had a "fair to us in this thread refund policy", but instead, he came down hard, and made it absolutely no refunds. I love it. Get rid of all of the tire kickers and crybabies. More promoters like him in this game, please! I'd also like to add, you don't show up to your match, you are never allowed back. So many pros oversleep, or decide to go play golf instead of showing up. F that! Get rid of all of them.
Yea you should come down hard on someone who can no longer attend because they're having a child around that date. Or their sister is getting married and her selfish ass wouldn't reschedule around my tournament life. Come down hard on these everyday people who make that tournament tick. Definitely come down hard on them.
Anyone want to bet who the first complainer would be if someone gave back the no show money and it removed XXX amount from the prize fund?
JV
JV