I wonder what it would be like to take say about 4 or so lessons from ALL the top instructors ? Do you think it would add great depth to your knowledge and your game or just completely screw ya up???
Which Instructor ? ??
- Thread starter BmoreMoney
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I wonder what it would be like to take say about 4 or so lessons from ALL the top instructors ? Do you think it would add great depth to your knowledge and your game or just completely screw ya up???
I apologized once already, but I did not instigate it. That came from another, as did the escalation after my initial response.
I apologize again for my part, but mis-characterizations must be corrected or untruths are rather quickly taken to be truths.
Some groups just can't stand any criticism... even when non was present. Some even see a compliment of others as criticism of themselves.
Sorry for the distractions.
The 2 instructors that have had the biggest impact on my game were Scott Lee and Mark Wilson, I won't say one was better then the other because they both have there own teaching style and communicate very well with there students. I can say that some of the other SPF instructors that I have had the pleasure of working with are top notch too; Denny Stewart, Mark Finkelstein, Lance Cowles are just a few off the top of my head.
Could mess you up! I did a controversial article about it a few years ago, about one of the players I've had to "deprogram" from other teachers. Bear in mind, though, that their are pros who get a lot of money for lessons but aren't very good at communicating to others...
It's all good bro. I'm not blaming you; or anyone else - just a blanket statement. I see it all the time, people making provoctive statements trying to get a rise out of people. The best thing to do is ignore them. While not always successful with that myself, that is what I try to do anyway.
If my numbers are correct I think RandyG said, in the instructors forum, that of the 260 PBIA instructors that 220 of them are of the SPF variety that would basically be teaching the same thing & that only 40 are not of the SPF variety. I know Fran Crimi & CJ Wiley are not of the SPF variety.
So... one would need to research an instructor or one might get the same basic information from all four(4)
It seems that their approach is to have uniform instruction & they seem to not see the value in diversity.
I can understand that from their view point but... from the consumers viewpoint it's entirely different picture.
I singled out Fran Crimi & CJ Wiley for a reason. They're different & seem to have things, insights, that I have not seen from hardly any of the others that post here on AZB.
That does NOT mean that the others are 'bad', It just means, to me, I'd rather take a lesson or lessons from an individual & not from one that has been cut from the cutting machine.
As someone has suggested it might be good for a beginner to get the basics from a solid 'fundamentalist' & then to seek the 'insights' from those that have them.
Or... I think one can get them both from someone like Fran Crimi & I would think that CJ Wiley may have some different 'fundamentals'.
I think it would be a good idea if AZB would have a list of instructors & their credentials & backgrounds listed in a sticky in the instructors forum. maybe the link to the PBIA & the other organizations & then perhaps something for those that are not members of organizations.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
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The reason is that you can't tell the difference between good info and carnival barker bullshit. Putting those two in the same category is an insult to your friend Fran.
pj
chgo
I would not mind it at all if both considered me their friend, but I have not met either of them in person.
They are both former professional players & the reason that I put them together is because they have insights as such that I have rarely if ever seen posted here by other instructors & when I have seen such, it was from an instructor that also was a professional player such as a couple of posts by Ray Martin, but he posts very little, in fact hardly at all.
Two others that I like are Donny Lutz & Richard Long.
Like I said, I would rather take a lesson from an individual rather than a cookie cut from a cutting machine or from someone that can't play a lick.
Many are not looking for 'fundamentals' as many have been playing for a while & have rather good 'fundamentals'. They're looking for instructions on how better to play the game.
Perhaps there should be a different designation such as, instructor/playing coach & then just the plain instructor designation.
A piece of paper does not make one a great or even good instructor nor does being a great player make one even a good instructor, but... there are those in both categories.
I'll refrain from making a reciprocal dig back at you & another aspect regarding the game of pocket billiards.
But... since you seem to be following me around since your return, I may have to sharpen up on those type of 'skills'.
How could anyone tell unless they have had lessons from all of them?
For me personally I just wanted to make sure I got someone that is good. Having the "best" really doesn't matter to me because a) it is all subjective anyway, and b) someone who is "best" for one person may not be best for someone else.
I'm planning a lesson with Scott Lee. I chose him because I read a lot of his posts in various threads and I've read many reviews of his lessons. Then when I talked to him, his manner confirmed my prior assessment of him as a good guy who knew what he was talking about. But, to be honest, the real clincher for me was that he will come to where I am (eventually - but I'm not in a hurry) so I only have to pay for the lesson, not traveling costs to go get the lesson.
Exactly why there is little point in voting for who is "best." It is not a competition.
Which instructor you need is determined by the level of your play. If you are a beginner, or novice, then any "qualified" instructor can teach you the fundamentals of the game.
If you have reached an A-level, or higher, then you don't need the "cookie board cutter" type of instructor, you need a "pro"' IMHO, to teach you strategies and stuff that the average instructor can't, because they have "never been there, done that".
When it comes to playing at the highest levels for the cash, it would be hard to "beat" somebody with C. J.'s knowledge and experience as an instructor.
If you have reached an A-level, or higher, then you don't need the "cookie board cutter" type of instructor, you need a "pro"' IMHO, to teach you strategies and stuff that the average instructor can't, because they have "never been there, done that".
When it comes to playing at the highest levels for the cash, it would be hard to "beat" somebody with C. J.'s knowledge and experience as an instructor.
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I had a conversation with an experienced player.
They said, once you learn the basics and have good fundamentals, what you need is table time and competition to advance through C and B to get to A. Some never get there. Once there, you still need table time to maintain, but also need a mentor with high level competitive experience to go further.
Sounds like what you are saying.
You can't play a lick and all you do is give "free advice" on how to play the game and who to take lessons from? WTF ?
I've asked you numerous times to provide us with your credentials, so folks can judge for themselves if you know what the heck you're talking about. You've yet to do it, and won't do it. Heck, you've been called out to play, and you won't even do that.
And you're completely wrong about "cookie cutter" approach by an instructor. Well, of course, if you go to the same type of instructor certified by an organization, it's gonna be similar, but there is NOTHING that tells them how they MUST teach their students. NOTHING, but you don't know that because you sit behind your keyboard as the resident on-line billiard instructor expert.
Guess what Einstein, if you go to USC to play baseball, they will teach you how to pitch "their" way. The head coach also teaches other baseball "coaches" to teach his way due to his success in building pitchers. Is USC and the coaches that attended their coaching training a "cookie cutter" camp ? Don't answer and embarrass yourself.
But keep flapping your gums, because you are completely clueless in this aspect, I don't care that you have "47 years" of racking for someone else.
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you can't play a lick and all you do is give "free advice" on how to play the game and who to take lessons from? Wtf ?
I've asked you numerous times to provide us with your credentials, so folks can judge for themselves if you know what the heck you're talking about. You've yet to do it, and won't do it. Heck, you've been called out to play, and you won't even do that.
And you're completely wrong about "cookie cutter" approach by an instructor. Well, of course, if you go to the same type of instructor certified by an organization, it's gonna be similar, but there is nothing that tells them how they must teach their students. Nothing, but you don't know that because you sit behind your keyboard as the resident on-line billiard instructor expert.
Guess what einstein, if you go to usc to play baseball, they will teach you how to pitch "their" way. The head coach also teaches other baseball "coaches" to teach his way due to his success in building pitchers. Is usc and the coaches that attended their coaching training a "cookie cutter" camp ? Don't answer and embarrass yourself.
But keep flapping your gums, because you are completely clueless in this aspect, i don't care that you have "47 years" of racking for someone else.
And your Mama wears Army Boots!
And Nolan Ryan & Randy Johnson both went to Tom House when they were both well into their Professional Careers.
When a college student is on an athletic scholarship they are basically owned by the school & they will do what they are told or they will lose their scholarship or they may be even choice to transfer if someone like Tom House says that they should.
I don't THINK that anyone here is 'owned' by any instructor or group of instructors. Hence each individual here is at choice to take lessons from whom ever they wish... or not.
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well, my mom is dead, but thanks for asking. And it appears you missed the point. Many, many coaches get "certified" through Mr. House. It's up to them on how, when and where they teach what they learned. Just like anyone else, there is no one size fits all for anyone, but not many folks that are apa 4's with poor fundamentals are not going to play in the US Open any time soon, let alone even advance to a 6 or 7 level.
And that is why I said in my earlier post that perhaps there should be some different designations.
But why should an APA 4 get a lesson from just anyone that has a certificate...
when they can get a lesson from someone that was a professional player AND also has a Master Instructor Certification like Fran Crimi...
or someone that was of the playing caliber of CJ Wiley or Nick Varner or Ray Martin?
It seems that you've prejudged the student & decided that they do not warrant top level instruction just because they are currently at APA 4 level regardless of what their desires & dreams might be.
The OP asked for opinions.
I gave mine & I qualified why I would choose them. Insights that I have not seen from others that post here with the exception of a couple by Ray Martin...
and I also like some things I've read from Donny Lutz & Richard Long.
If I had a choice of getting a guitar lesson from a music teacher in a store in shopping center...
or Carlos Santana, I know which one I'd choose.
HEY!!! I'm technically an APA 4, what do you have against 4's? Lol
I agree with this 100%.